"Shaving" optical discs

[J. PUPSTER]

 

[tonyE]

Yes I had heard of that. It is concievable but very doubtful that all these considerations, could possibly make the error correction circuitry's job a little easier. But I doubt it. If any of this made the discs work better the manufacturer's would have glommed onto them and put hype stickers on their boxes.

"Now with green ring technology for more accurate reads"

Actually, orange sounds better. It makes things sound more relaxed, you know, like..

It's another tequila sunrise
Starin' slowly 'cross the sky, said goodbye...

Green makes the music sound as if I were scuba diving 30 feet under the surface of the Puget Sound.... sort of murky, you know? There is no silence between the notes.

Avoid blue unless you have the Tice Clock Mk II with the remote upgrade (where you called the guy, paid your 100 bucks and he upgraded it over the phone).

 

[tonyE]

Please explain (in as much technical detail as you like) how markers and disc enhancing "ointments" can make digital data sound better - data is either a 1 or a 0, there's no incremental quality increase to be had by any kind of topically applied solution to the playback medium.

If that was the case, what would happen if it was a data disc full of jpeg images, would the people look more attractive? If it were software, would it somehow make the program run better, or faster? This kind of thing is literally (literally!) impossible, because if even one bit or byte of a software program is changed, the file becomes corrupt and won't run.

Well, sounds like you don't believe it, huh?

Look, it's like this, if you use the black marker, for punk and heavy metal, it adds a new chord to the rythm guitar and a second, harmonic, tom tom to the drummer in perfect sympathy.

Now, for classical, you got to use the more expensive, ultrasonic violet. For symphonic works from the 18th century, it enhances the sonority of the second violins and tunes the violas to the french horns.

But, the best one, is when you don't use just one color. I find that alternating the colors, like every 15 degrees of rotation helps with the phase shifts introduced with Red Book.

For higher resolution recordings, you have to alternate at 10 degrees or less. If you have time, take a single layer, NOT dual layers please!!, and alternate with purple and cyan every 7.5 degrees.

It makes wonders with CCR correction when you play Miles Davis or Thelonious Monk.

There, go do it...

I also color the ethernet cables that I run for music and video.. Red for music and Yellow for video.

Note, back in the 80s, after reading THAT one column in Stereophile, I tried it, even did it to my LPs. Hmm...

Don't forget to paint the capacitors in the preamp section! They got to match the cabling and polycarbonate too.

 

[JulesRules]

I always make it a point to play the discs untreated ... and then treated. Why would I waste my time and money on these tweaks if they didn't work. I'm not, repeat NOT a sadist! The treated disc definitely has better presence and increased bass response. And these tweaks are evident on receivers, high end separate components and even in my Mercedes car system.

Have you ever done a blind test with two originally identical discs - one treated and one not?
Have you recorded the output of your system prior and afterwards, so you could analyse the spectrum?
Those are the things I'd be doing before I'd recommend anyone else to apply something.

 

[Sal1950]

The title of this one grabbed me and he shows the propaganda from a snake oil salesman who seems to be a biochemist who invented this system.

That's beautiful Gene, thanks!!!

 

[godathunder]

I totally understand the concept of 1s and 0s and without supplying charts, graphs I can ONLY report what I SEE and HEAR. IMO, the ultra bit and black marker pen PERHAPS increases the reflectivity of the physical disc thus resulting in a more refined presentation to the optical laser .......

I always make it a point to play the discs untreated ... and then treated. Why would I waste my time and money on these tweaks if they didn't work. I'm not, repeat NOT a sadist! The treated disc definitely has better presence and increased bass response. And these tweaks are evident on receivers, high end separate components and even in my Mercedes car system.

Even my former high end dealer noticed the increased resolution and started treating his discs in store ....... IMO, Ultra Bit Diamond + is my favorite treatment so far and the black ink pens, IMO, bested those green pens and are easier to apply since the tip is notched!

Snake oil, HARDLY and besides I HATE SNAKES ... but not as much as SPIDERS!

Dave, send me one of your discs of which you have doubles and I will treat it for you.

How about ripping the disk before and after treatment and comparing the ripped data.

If the files show differences then it would seem you have a point

If the files are identical then how can there be a difference in audio quality?

 

[4-earredwonder]

I cannot be bothered shaving my discs but my disc tweaks .... reek of SUCCESS!

 

[artwwweb]

Please explain (in as much technical detail as you like) how markers and disc enhancing "ointments" can make digital data sound better - data is either a 1 or a 0, there's no incremental quality increase to be had by any kind of topically applied solution to the playback medium.

If that was the case, what would happen if it was a data disc full of jpeg images, would the people look more attractive? If it were software, would it somehow make the program run better, or faster? This kind of thing is literally (literally!) impossible, because if even one bit or byte of a software program is changed, the file becomes corrupt and won't run.

I think the thinking was as follows:

CD player reads bits from the CD. Sometimes it reads them wrong, so it reads 1 for 0 or vice versa. (Remember it isn't a 1 or 0 character, it is a pit and sometimes that pit might not be read perfectly, so even binary isn't truly 'binary'.) Sometimes it makes an error due to dust/ mispress/ jumping/ light scattering. The error correction in the CD player tries to correct it (skips? plays silence? estimates?). Remember that this is all when playing in real time, or at least it was when these pens became popular. So if the errors are small they are not really noticeable because they are so short but they degrade the sound quality. So... assuming this is all true, if you can reduce the light scatter, it will reduce the number of misreads and therefore reduce the mis-corrections and therefore increase quality.

I think it is fair to say that the digital is not 1 and 0 at a fundamental level on a CD, so your basic argument is not correct. I'm not an expert, but a telecoms expert would I'm sure be able to say more about dealing with error correction from a signal. Remember that this is really about the transfer of data, so if there are fewer errors, yes it can be better and faster. These days I rip CDs and they are checked against an online Db, as I imagine a lot of us do. I find it extremely rare that one reports an error, and that is usually when the disc is old or scratched. So in the 99.9% of discs that rip OK, I agree that it is a bit perfect copy. However, this is with the benefit of faster readers than a 1980s CD player and not having to do in real time - it can go back and re-read a troublesome section, even if overall it is still faster than real time. (Though maybe even in 80s CD players could build up quite a big buffer so would have a chance to re-read. So reducing the need to do this would obviously help, if it stopped skipping, but that would be a major and obvious problem, not a minor degradation in sound as being discussed here.)

However, I'm still not at all convinced that the pens make any difference, so I agree with your overall suspicion. I don't know if the scattering light causes any errors and I don't know if the pen reduces the scattering. I've certainly never bought or used one of these pens. Ripping before and after would not be a valid test, because of the way ripping works as opposed to playing live as discussed above. If you could read the live feed from your player in bit form and then compare before and after it would test it.

Interesting analogy about jpegs. I agree it seems impossible with pictures. However, maybe it is possible if you consider the granularity. We are listening to music sampled at 44.1k, and tiny errors in a few samples are meant to degrade the sound. Whereas jpegs in comparison are extremely granular - you can almost see the pixels, which is nowhere near as finely detailed as the samples on an audio file. If instead our eyes needed to see pictures at 44.1k DPI (or whatever, I hope you see my point) maybe it would show a difference if a few pixels were in error.

Anybody, please feel free to correct me if I've made an error or incorrect assumption.

 

[Owen Smith]

CDs first do some real error correction before having to "guess". This is the Reed-Solomon coding.

 

[Sal1950]

CDs first do some real error correction before having to "guess". This is the Reed-Solomon coding.

Some moderator give this man the QQ "Member Of The Month" award.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Let’s zoom in to have a closer look at the detail and transparency afforded by the audio from these treated discs shall we…

Oh my, that’s some difference

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Let’s zoom in to have a closer look at the detail and transparency afforded by the audio from these treated discs shall we…

View attachment 83075


Oh my, that’s some difference

What did ya do, run a felt marker around the edges on the png file?

 

[user 14547]

Of all the CD tweaks I've seen over the years (CD degaussers, green pens, CD damping disks, Armor All, etc.,) disc shaving was one I thought might bring tangible improvement. Some discs that are out of round could wobble and cause the laser more difficulty in reading the disc. I've noticed when ripping CDs that some discs tend to cause more racket in the cd rom drive, which I attributed to the disc being out of round. A CD Rom automatically adjusts to a slower speed to better read the cd error free. CD players vary the disc speed from 500-200 RMP from inside to outside of the disc, but they do not adjust the speed for error free playback. Not sure if this would translate into better sound, but it might. I'm a firm believer in A/B comparisons, but unsure how one could be done unless you had two identical discs except one wobbles and the other does not.

 

[MidiMagic]

Cut a little too deep and you expose the foil inside to air. Corrode corrode.

 

[Doug G.]

The guys involved in the development of CD, if they are still alive, laugh their asses off, I'm sure, when they read stuff like this.

 

[jsulzinger]

It only works with SHM discs

 

[Sonik Wiz]

It only works with SHM discs

What works? Why?
What ever it is, you have tangible proof, I would be most interested in seeing it.

 

[jsulzinger]

What works? Why?
What ever it is, you have tangible proof, I would be most interested in seeing it.

Sorry, I was completely kidding, it is so obviously snake oil

 

[Sal1950]

I've noticed when ripping CDs that some discs tend to cause more racket in the cd rom drive, which I attributed to the disc being out of round.

I've found a couple tweaks for the racket, but it doesn't change the sound.
Similar to the shaving, I've used a piece of 220 sandpaper to remove any untrimmed flash from around the edge of the disc, just smooth it off.
Also if a disc vibrates and makes a lot of racket, open the drawer and reposition the disc, that will many times make a big improvement.

 

[JediJoker]

I've found a couple tweaks for the racket, but it doesn't change the sound.
Similar to the shaving, I've used a piece of 220 sandpaper to remove any untrimmed flash from around the edge of the disc, just smooth it off.
Also if a disc vibrates and makes a lot of racket, open the drawer and reposition the disc, that will many times make a big improvement.

Unfortunately, none of that helps if there's an issue with the center hole. I have one Mobile Fidelity SACD that has had an out-of-round center hole from new. It plays and rips just fine, but on a non-fixed-spindle drive/transport, it vibrates an awful lot.