Shure HTS-5300 Acra-Vector Decoder

[Wunlow]

Awhile back Ty had sent me a CD of a Shure Acra-Vector test disc. The company was rightfully proud of their 3 band design at the time and included various tests to highlight the superiority of their faster multi-band logic over the then far slower Pro-Logic I design that was eventually replaced with Pro-Logic II.

 

[jefe1]

He also had this available on his online archive at one time. I was able to download it but when I translated it to cd everything was in reverse order! The same thing happened with a DBX record he had archived as a CD. Played in reverse.....

 

[jefe1]

I bet Ty would be thrilled that people are still discussing his posts years after his demise. If that isnt immortality I dont know what is.....

 

[gene_stl]

The DBX record format is another one of the things I missed. However if you look up the You Tuber Techmoan he got a decoder and a bunch of records and thinks its the best format, he has ever played with, among all of them. An unusually strong statement. DiscLord still shows a Shure HTS label, but I didn't notice a CD file. Maybe I missed something. I will look again. (Edit no file there)

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Awhile back Ty had sent me a CD of a Shure Acra-Vector test disc. The company was rightfully proud of their 3 band design at the time and included various tests to highlight the superiority of their faster multi-band logic over the then far slower Pro-Logic I design that was eventually replaced with Pro-Logic II.

In all of my reading about the Shure 5XXX products I've never run into a mention of multi-band decoding. Are you refering to a product subsequent to the 5300, a prototype or maybe an actual movie theater application?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

The DBX record format is another one of the things I missed. However if you look up the You Tuber Techmoan he got a decoder and a bunch of records an thinks its the best format he has ever played with among all of them. An unusually strong statement. DiscLord still shows a label but I didn't notice a CD file. Maybe I missed something. I will look again.

HAHA etc. Per Techmoan:

IT WILL NOT SOUND GOOD ON YOUTUBE

And I like the cheese analogy.
Anyways, I have maybe .5 doz dbx stereo discs. I also have & used to use a Technics dbx cassette deck to play them. The tape deck had an aux line level input that would run through the dbx processing. What I had was classical recordings & the played back far superior to any other format. Not usually mentioned is that the compressed range on the LP made it really easy for the cartridge to track. Also there was quite a few SQ dbx records released. I think it is interesting that in the 80's, using something top notch like the Fosgate 101A, you could play back LP's with the dynamic range & low noise of CD's in perceptively discrete surround sound.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Just found an HT 5300 which I hope to use to try out upmixing. If anyone has manual scans or comments on this unit I would appreciate seeing and hearing them.
I am sorry I was too late to make the acquaintance of the late great DiscLord.

Hey again.
I found a user's manual online. It probably won't tell you anything you can"t figure out on your own but there it is.

Keep in mind the HTS stands for Home Theater System & Shure preffered to sell the 5300 as a bundled deal with speakers, etc. One of the original HTIB. A review of the system can be found on pg. 38 in the last issue of High Fidelity Magazine, July '89.

 

[gene_stl]

Thanks Scott.
I did find that on Shure's web site.

 

[jaybird100]

Wow, thanks for all the info and documents!

It's funny, because when Shure was originally designing the Acra-Vector Logic, Dolby was right there to help them - in fact, Dolby would publicly state that the Shure decoder came closer than any other to the professional theater processor. But once Shure started actively competing, well, Dolby couldn't allow that! Also, the Shure decoders were being used more and more for monitoring movie mix-downs since it could decode things the Dolby processor couldn't, mixers could be more adventurous - the movie "Spacecamp" has several instances where there are two simultaneous dominant sources at once - even today, only the Shure can decode it correctly.

I remember CBS used the Stereosurround process quite a bit - I vividly remember the logo appearing at the opening of many programs. Do you know if it was ever used on any CD music releases?

As I said in my first post, I think the Acra-Vector logic still beats out Pro-Logic - of course, Dolby has changed the Pro-Logic spec a few times, so not all decoders sound similar - some pump quite badly due to Dolby adding rear-channel gain-riding, which allows the surrounds to pump up and down as the Logic enhances the various signals. It's too bad Shure couldn't get the Acra-Vector design onto an IC that could have been licensed widely. But then, I don't think Shure has always been too financially healthy to be able to afford an undertaking like that. It's sad that their full HTS speaker system wasn't taken seriously until THX came into the business. And Museteax/Meitner (SP?) did nothing with the technology when Shure gave it to them... from the trademark filings, it looks like all the trademarks were abandoned in 1993.

Do you happen to have the brochures for the original HTS-5000 and the HTS-5200 decoders? Or the instruction manuals for either? I got the manual for my 5300 off of Shure's website - I was surprised they still had it available! Now I just need to find the wireless remote for my unit - the seller didn't have it - but for the dollar I paid, I can't complain. Especially considering the decoder is in first-rate shape and works perfectly.

I remember SNL being broadcast in Stereosurround, too.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

It's too bad Disclord's question went unanswered .

Namely --Were there any music cd's made with the Shure HTS system ?

I know of three labels : one is a test cd (obscure label from NY )

Second label is Telarc ; Spies-By Way Of The World

Third label is Intersound (includes their sub labels as well) ;
Apart from the first eight releases (dolby)....... ALL are in Shure HTS encode , perhaps 100 +

If anyone knows of any others (music labels) feel free to elaborate.






Fizzy (the ever curious)

 

[surround.sound.enthusiast]

Telarc and the whole Pro-Arte/Intersound/Fanfare/Classical Heritage label family are all that I've come across so far with Stereosurround encoding.

 

[gene_stl]

I collect Telarcs at my local Half Price Books and have not noticed any with the Stereosurround label. I will go back and check them.
Ah LOVES mah Telarcs!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I collect Telarcs at my local Half Price Books and have not noticed any with the Stereosurround label. I will go back and check them.
Ah LOVES mah Telarcs!

To the best of my knowledge , only the one disc on the Telarc label .(too bad)
The Spies disc.
And if you haven't heard it , you should try and aquire it .
It's excellent !!!

 

[jaybird100]

It's too bad Disclord's question went unanswered .

Namely --Were there any music cd's made with the Shure HTS system ?

I know of three labels : one is a test cd (obscure label from NY )

Second label is Telarc ; Spies-By Way Of The World

Third label is Intersound (includes their sub labels as well) ;
Apart from the first eight releases (dolby)....... ALL are in Shure HTS encode , perhaps 100 +

If anyone knows of any others (music labels) feel free to elaborate.






Fizzy (the ever curious)

Intersound released a number of Stereosurround-encoded classical CD's under the Pro Arte label.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Telarc and the whole Pro-Arte/Intersound/Fanfare/Classical Heritage label family are all that I've come across so far with Stereosurround encoding.

Regarding the sub label from Intersound "Classical Heritage".......approximately 4 or 5 years back I came across some box sets that were indicated as Dolby surround.
I am aware that the vast majority on Classical Heritage were indicated most prodigiously as Shure Stereosurround,
so I was surprised to find these. Seems as if they were final issue box sets. Probably the last to be released before they stopped altogether.

So they started with a few Dolby , switched to Shure Stereosurround for the vast majority, then back to Dolby as their close out.

Anyway I just thought I would mention this.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

The test disc is from New Jersey , not NY (my apologies).


Also Intersound had another sub label called "First Choice".




Anyway the test disc (5 tracks in surround)
V

 

[humprof]

Reviving this thread again to ask if you tech-heads can set me straight on some fundamentals of "logic" based systems. Since discovering recently that the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra's famous pioneering digital recording of Copland's "Appalachian Spring"--originally released on LP on the Sound 80 label--eventually had a Shure Stereosurround CD reissue on Pro-Arte, I've been trying to figure out whether that implies that there are (or were) multitrack masters out there somewhere. Did Stereosound work from multitracks and transform them into "encoded" stereo? Or was it a system for "synthesizing" surround sound from an existing stereo recording? Or both?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

https://www.discogs.com/release/15503563-John-Obetz-Auditorium-Organ-Encores-Vol-1
https://www.discogs.com/release/8954306-Trammell-Starks-A-Copland-Portrait
https://www.discogs.com/release/10313781-Ferrante-A-Touch-Of-Art

 

[Mark Anderson]

Jeff, thanks for those links, Their is one I can add to the Dolby Surround discography. Humprof's question as to if the multitracks were used by Pro-arte is hard to answer as many company's would take a stereo recording and say upmix it to Dolby surround, HTS, etc. as I point out in my opening to the discography after communicating with the companies.

There are many methods used for creating a Dolby Surround Sound
compatible recording. One method is to use 4 channel Quadraphonic
recordings from the '70's. By running the 4 channel tape thru a Sound
Console and then output via 4 or 5 channels to a matrix encoder. Another
Method is to record the entire performance to 4 or more channels and mix
them from whatever number originally recorded to 4 channels that are fed
to the matrix encoder.
Some events are recorded with multiple stereo microphone groups placed
throughout the performance space in order to record the natural
acoustics, reverberant ques and phase data and do not use a Dolby
encoder at all. Others use the Spatializer system to widen the sound of
a stereo recording over 2 speakers that wraps around when played back on
a surround system.
One other approached is to record the performance via two channels.
After the recording is done, the two channels are sent to a computer
where room environments are added and then fed out of the computer
via 4 or 5 channels to a matrix encoder.

I suspect Pro-Arte did use a computer to manipulate the recording as they were under the umbrela of Intersound at this time and my conversations with them indicated they used upmixing of a sort to enhance playback for Dolby Surround. The companies that did use multitracks that I know of are RCA and Delos.

 

[jaybird100]

Jeff, thanks for those links, Their is one I can add to the Dolby Surround discography. Humprof's question as to if the multitracks were used by Pro-arte is hard to answer as many company's would take a stereo recording and say upmix it to Dolby surround, HTS, etc. as I point out in my opening to the discography after communicating with the companies.

There are many methods used for creating a Dolby Surround Sound
compatible recording. One method is to use 4 channel Quadraphonic
recordings from the '70's. By running the 4 channel tape thru a Sound
Console and then output via 4 or 5 channels to a matrix encoder. Another
Method is to record the entire performance to 4 or more channels and mix
them from whatever number originally recorded to 4 channels that are fed
to the matrix encoder.
Some events are recorded with multiple stereo microphone groups placed
throughout the performance space in order to record the natural
acoustics, reverberant ques and phase data and do not use a Dolby
encoder at all. Others use the Spatializer system to widen the sound of
a stereo recording over 2 speakers that wraps around when played back on
a surround system.
One other approached is to record the performance via two channels.
After the recording is done, the two channels are sent to a computer
where room environments are added and then fed out of the computer
via 4 or 5 channels to a matrix encoder.

I suspect Pro-Arte did use a computer to manipulate the recording as they were under the umbrela of Intersound at this time and my conversations with them indicated they used upmixing of a sort to enhance playback for Dolby Surround. The companies that did use multitracks that I know of are RCA and Delos.

My understanding of the Shure Stereosound system is that it's an encode-decode system, much like Dolby Surround. It was claimed to be compatible with Dolby. I would imagine the decoder would also be able to synthesize surround from stereo sources, and possibly even play QS material. As far as how it actually differed from Dolby Pro Logic II, I don't really know. Maybe someone else will know.