Smyth Research A16 REALISER Review

[zeerround]

I am a headphone lover from way back when I was 15 years old, currently I am a Stax guy. My experience will all the headphone surround HRTF is that its great on side, rear and up but the frontal vocals etc are still stuck inside my head.

Real question, what have you guys found on frontal image with the Smyth, is it clearly up front outside the head?

Absolutely convincing image all around. I will say this again, you literally can't tell the difference from your speakers, other than the physical presence of the phones on your head.

You can see people's reaction in the videos where Smyth demoed this at some AES or other show. "No really? The speakers aren't on?". These are Studio Engineers experiencing the demo.



I do think that it helps that you may have speakers in the room to look at. Helps fool your brain (along with the head tracking). I think this because if you close your eyes, and hold your head still, you can begin to feel less confident about the virtualization, but as soon as you look at (moving your head) speakers again it becomes absolutely convincing.

 

[chucky3042]

Absolutely convincing image all around. I will say this again, you literally can't tell the difference from your speakers, other than the physical presence of the phones on your head.

You can see people's reaction in the videos where Smyth demoed this at some AES or other show. "No really? The speakers aren't on?". These are Studio Engineers experiencing the demo.



I do think that it helps that you may have speakers in the room to look at. Helps fool your brain (along with the head tracking). I think this because if you close your eyes, and hold your head still, you can begin to feel less confident about the virtualization, but as soon as you look at (moving your head) speakers again it becomes absolutely convincing.

That's good. I ask because we at Involve Audio had a crack at headphone surround and had good results for most people but we failed on the frontal image. I also tried experiments of for example of putting 4 speakers in a headset - with zero effect. With HRTF I found people would initially say the frontal sound was out in front but when questioned and they focused on what they were listening to the front was in fact in their head!

Is there any good online demos of a typical Smyth result (I understand the need to calibrate to a particular head!)?

 

[chucky3042]

That's good. I ask because we at Involve Audio had a crack at headphone surround and had good results for most people but we failed on the frontal image. I also tried experiments of for example of putting 4 speakers in a headset - with zero effect. With HRTF I found people would initially say the frontal sound was out in front but when questioned and they focused on what they were listening to the front was in fact in their head!

Is there any good online demos of a typical Smyth result (I understand the need to calibrate to a particular head!)?

Oh, I wrote to Smyth this morning and informed them of our decode technology and asked if they would have any interest in incorporating our decode.

 

[zeerround]

You can check my thread here on surround virtualization. The same BBC room that Smyth Uses IRs are are there along with other published room and head IRs and tools to do the virtualization.

I felt the same as you, re: convincing out of my head, until I tried wave NX with head tracking (in my experience the web came tracking actually worked better than the BT head tracker thingy). That's OK as far as it goes, but it's only 7.1 and doesn't decode, etc.

A big part of that is probably the head tracking, but they also have head measurements and EQ for some common headphones.

Again the A16 is the ultimate because it comes with everything you need to make your own measurements (Your ears, your headphones, your speakers and room, although I just use the BBC room [same speakers as mine anyway]).

 

[3DSoundShop]

Is there any good online demos of a typical Smyth result (I understand the need to calibrate to a particular head!)?

Play this file while wearing Sennheiser HD800s

Play this file while wearing any other headphone.

These demos are binaural recordings captured from the Realiser A16. Headphones must be worn to experience the virtual sound.

edit: for best results... please listen with your eyes closed.

 

[DoctorO]

It appears the only way to get an A16 these days is to pay full price or the difference of your pre-order amount.

Please PM me if you can suggest a way of contacting Smyth that might get a response from someone. Thanks.

 

[zeerround]

Play this file while wearing Sennheiser HD800s

Play this file while wearing any other headphone.

These demos are binaural recordings captured from the Realiser A16. Headphones must be worn to experience the virtual sound.

OK cool but we need people to understand the caveats.

1) No head tracking, which is a critical part
2) What room is this, BBC? That used a Neumann KU100 dummy head microphone so if you haven't used the A16 to setup "your ears and headphones" the results may not be optimal, if your head & ears aren't a good match for the KU100.
3) Was the Binaural recording made with your User setup (your [3DShoundShop's] ear and headphone measurement)? If so it might not be a good match for the people trying the binaural links above.

The A16 can't do it's (full) magic without all those things being correct. For instance, for me there was some front back confusion on the left rear height, that isn't there when I use my A16 (and yes I listened with HD800s on a non A16 audio interface).

 

[mercury]

Hi! I have a preorder since June 27 of 2017! As many I’m waiting to have a miracle this year, I’m in México and a surround fan from quad to atmos with a dedicated room, nice to know that many here are interested in Realiser and headphone surround emulation

 

[3DSoundShop]

1) No head tracking, which is a critical part

Yes and no... head-tracking is important if you are not listening to the audio in the dark room or sitting still... which is why I suggest that people try my demos with their eyes closed... Oops, edited above post.

2) What room is this, BBC? That used a Neumann KU100 dummy head microphone so if you haven't used the A16 to setup "your ears and headphones" the results may not be optimal, if your head & ears aren't a good match for the KU100.

The above PRIR demos were made using the Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers in a sound controlled recording studio. The A16 was used to record the measurements.

3) Was the Binaural recording made with your User setup (your [3DShoundShop's] ear and headphone measurement)? If so it might not be a good match for the people trying the binaural links above.

The PRIRs were made using my ears. (I did this for myself) The above demos were made by playing my Atmos Channel Test Demo through the Realiser > Dutch & Dutch PRIR > Both HD800 & Flat HPEQs. The Flat HPEQ was meant to be played through the Realiser using an HPEQ set to Flat.

The A16 can't do it's (full) magic without all those things being correct. For instance, for me there was some front back confusion on the left rear height, that isn't there when I use my A16 (and yes I listened with HD800s on a non A16 audio interface).

That is not necessarily true. I have many customers who have been thrilled with "my" PRIRs. Some of my PRIRs work perfectly but for others, they can get great results with a manLOUD correction. But you are right...

This is what I tell my customers... A “Universal” PRIR is created in a professional recording studio, using highly refined measurements and precise speaker placement, for the playback of multi-channel audio via the A16 Smyth Realiser. “Universal” PRIRs are designed for the A16 owner who does not have access to loudspeakers, the space or time to take their own measurements, or access to a recording studio for “In Person” PRIRs, etc. These PRIRs are reference quality and acoustically superior to average living rooms...

If for some reason you can not hear the localization of the speakers during the playback of the online demos… it may possible that you need to try a better pair of headphones… If all else fails, you would need to schedule an “In Person” PRIR session.

For those that may have interest in what the Realiser "sounds" like or if my PRIRs will work for you... you can check out my website at: Home - 3DSoundShop You can instantly and seamlessly compare any of the 10 speaker brands all in 24 channel Dolby Atmos , DTS:X and Stereo. As well as customer reviews, FR graphs and other cool stuff.

Happy to answer any questions.
I love this stuff!

 

[Soundfield]

I’ve no interest in purchasing a Realiser because, as I’ve mentioned here several times, headphone listening (even stereo) just doesn’t work for me. But in any case, I’m not sure I fully understand the rationale behind the device. Why does it seem to be focussed on emulating the sounds made by an arbitrary set of loudspeakers in an arbitrary room rather than attempting to re-create the original recording environment? Seems a bit like being offered a very high resolution way to copy Polaroid snaps.

 

[zeerround]

I’ve no interest in purchasing a Realiser because, as I’ve mentioned here several times, headphone listening (even stereo) just doesn’t work for me. But in any case, I’m not sure I fully understand the rationale behind the device. Why does it seem to be focussed on emulating the sounds made by an arbitrary set of loudspeakers in an arbitrary room rather than attempting to re-create the original recording environment? Seems a bit like being offered a very high resolution way to copy Polaroid snaps.

Not arbitrary rooms but either your specific room, or a studio where immersive content (could be) is produced. Smyth A16 can now have "rooms" with 24 speakers, so it begins to be the room none of us could afford. Remember that immersive content is typically object based, so the A16 is rendering DTS:X and Dolby Atmos objects into your 12, 16, or 24 speaker virtual room.

Right now mine is set for 9.1.6 for Dolby Atmos, and 7.1.4 for DTS:X and 7.1.4 for pcm (usb) so I can author/ up-remix content for 7.1.4 yet listen to dolby atmos content from Tidal, etc. in 9.1.6.

I've only spent a few minutes on the 24 speaker stuff, but will definitely come back to it.

 

[3DSoundShop]

Why does it seem to be focussed on emulating the sounds made by an arbitrary set of loudspeakers in an arbitrary room rather than attempting to re-create the original recording environment?

Have you been to a Dolby Cinema? In my opinion.. they sound awful. I actually have a 16 channel PRIR of a certified Dolby Cinema. IT IS UNUSABLE!. Even at a Dolby specd room... Quality of sound seems to be a far second to quantity. I say this because this is 'supposed" to be the closest thing to the original recording.

My goal with the Realiser A16 was... to use a space just large enough to achieve a multi-channel, single listener experience… and just small enough (with the help of room correction) to eliminate the sound of the room. The room’s size allows for a complete Dolby Atmos experience… without compromising on any of the speaker location specs that Dolby requires.

With the help of an HPEQ generated by the Realiser and the fact that I recorded the speakers in close to near field positions... I am not hearing speakers per se... Or the room they're in.. but more of what you're looking for.. the original recording.

In a few weeks, I will be capturing the sound of this incredible home theater. The sole purpose of this procedure is so that the client can experience and enjoy the sound of his theater at his winter home in Florida... Or anywhere in the world.

 

[Soundfield]

Have you been to a Dolby Cinema?

No I haven't.
And, perhaps because it's cinema and home theatre centric that I don't really understand the need for it. It just seems alien to the very concept of HiFi as I understand it. Now, where's my horn gramophone..

 

[jagxjr15]

I am a headphone lover from way back when I was 15 years old, currently I am a Stax guy. My experience will all the headphone surround HRTF is that its great on side, rear and up but the frontal vocals etc are still stuck inside my head.

Real question, what have you guys found on frontal image with the Smyth, is it clearly up front outside the head?

Getting the L+R in-phase audio out of your head is not expensive. The $300 Sennheiser RS175-U will do that for you, even though it will not replicate the image you will get from a good 5.1 or better home theater with loudspeakers.

 

[chucky3042]

Getting the L+R in-phase audio out of your head is not expensive. The $300 Sennheiser RS175-U will do that for you, even though it will not replicate the image you will get from a good 5.1 or better home theater with loudspeakers.

Tried it, still in my head

 

[esimms86]

Tried it, still in my head

A personalized capture(PRIR) got me totally outside my head, including in the fronts. As a bonus, my Sennheiser HD800 headphones image like crazy and weigh very little.

 

[chucky3042]

Well sad to report that Smyth is yet another company that does not answer emails!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well sad to report that Smyth is yet another company that does not answer emails!

Is that news? It's what they do.

 

[kfbkfb]

Maybe an old school certified/return receipt letter (might be unique enough to get their attention)


Kirk Bayne

 

[jagxjr15]

Tried it, still in my head

I don't believe you have tried the Sennheiser RS-175. Because the in-head/out-of-head effect is SO PRONOUNCED with this unit -- I think it's a better front-center out-of-head effect than I get from the Smyth processors. In fact, it's how I can tell if I accidentally hit the SURROUND button when trying to raise the volume while listening/watching TV -- the audio center image pops back into my head. Then when I turn on the SURROUND effect again, the front-center L+R jumps out of my head back into the TV screen 9 feet in front of me. It's really STRIKING, the in-head/out-of-head difference with this unit.