SPECWEB (Now 2.2)

[himey]

Frank Zappa, Hot Rats is amazing with this SPEC treatment (to 5.1 and played back in quad)...not a sour note!

 

[Plan9]

I don't see the red 0dB in sound forge. What version and where do you see that? In tools--> statistics?

Also, please tell me more about resamplers and "proper" settings for mastering. I think most people read the resampler documentation and automatically reach for the 2nd pass and normalize settings, "to avoid peaks above 0dB", but as you say this results in the dynamics/loudness of the track being changed.

I'm now thinking, after doing some more observation and testing with a pregain lowered SpecWeb, that (at least for purposes of SpecWeb) we would NOT want 2nd pass and normalization. We would want to preserve the dynamics of the original track, trusting in the original mastering engineer.

I guess it could be an option (avoiding intersample/true peaks above 0dB pre SpecWeb), but perhaps should NOT be the default?

Re flavors of free resamplers, we have r8Brain (free version), sox, the SSRC from 2008 in ea3to, and the modern SSRC, to name a few. Any opinion as to the sonically best and preferred settings?

For upsample I'm thinking no 2nd pass and no normalization, as I mention above). For down sample I don't use dither if keeping the same bit depth or the ending bit depth is 24 (24 bits is default output of SpecWeb, internally it is 32 bit float) but if going to 16bits what would be the "best/correct" dither settings for a preferred resampler?

I have SoundForge 10. The red 0dB is on the default Peak Meter.

It's better to lower gain to have more headroom than cutting peaks. You would very rarely have true peaks above +0dB if you keep -1.1dB headroom or more.

SoX is very fast and sounds good. This is a good tool to check the quality differences between resamplers: http://src.infinitewave.ca/
Always use Best quality settings, no aliasing, 95% passband, 50% phase response; unless you downsample to 44.1kHz where 96% passband, and between 37% and 44% of phase response gives good results for material that lacks transient punch (at the risk of getting a bit less precise imaging).

Dither is only for going to an inferior bit depth (24bit to 16bit). Choose the most sophisticated noise shaping, and dither amount medium (44.1kHz) to high (44.1kHz and above); unless you have a noisy/hissy recording where a 'low' amount should suffice. YMMV.

 

[zeerround]

Just released SpecWeb 1.4

http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=913

Lots of work on automagically getting the loudness of the the surround to match the original stereo (when you use the new default settings for vst and zag).

Should also go a long way to automatically dealing with/preventing those (occasional) rear transients.

Check it out!

Still free (for home use). Still really appreciate any donations as development hardware and software costs me way way more than I take in.

 

[GOS]

Just released SpecWeb 1.4

http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=913

Lots of work on automagically getting the loudness of the the surround to match the original stereo (when you use the new default settings for vst and zag).

Should also go a long way to automatically dealing with/preventing those (occasional) rear transients.

Check it out!

Still free (for home use). Still really appreciate any donations as development hardware and software costs me way way more than I take in.

You have peaked my interest....again. I jumped on the band wagon earlier...haven't used in a while. I gladly donated, I will check it out...and gladly donate again. All your work sure is appreciated.

 

[himey]

You have peaked my interest....again. I jumped on the band wagon earlier...haven't used in a while. I gladly donated, I will check it out...and gladly donate again. All your work sure is appreciated.

What are some of your favorite upmixed conversions?

 

[skherbeck]

Some favorite conversions (off the top of my head):

The Cars (any album)
The Eagles (debut)
Lindsey Buckingham- Out Of The Cradle
Scorpions- Blackout

 

[zeerround]

@Plan9

Thanks for your inputs!

"SoX is very fast and sounds good. This is a good tool to check the quality differences between resamplers: http://src.infinitewave.ca/"

Yes, that is what led me to SSRC, even over sox (but you can convince me if you have done comparative listening tests).

SSRC by itself only supports wav, and is a standalone exe. There is ea3to (a sox alternative), in which they recompiled SSRC as a lib, but that hasn't been updated since 2008.

For the next version of SpecWeb, I'm thinking of including up/down sample, even though we have an excellent helper app, QQHelper, that does that (and any day now, AudioMuxer will also support SpecWeb in its Audio Conversion tool).

That would allow me to control the resampler options, again to preserve the loudness/dynamics of the original stereo and better ensure quality of results.

 

[himey]

Some favorite conversions (off the top of my head):

The Cars (any album)
The Eagles (debut)
Lindsey Buckingham- Out Of The Cradle
Scorpions- Blackout

Will have to try Blackout soon! Have you heard the live Cars conversion circulating, from Chicago I think. It isn't an upmix has at least one song that never made an album, and the mix and performance is amazing?

 

[JerseyEd]

I converted this last weekend, so it was still SpecWeb version 1.31.

AM Gold – Assorted Artists. Roughly 15 years ago I saw an infomercial with Martha Quinn and Davy Jones for a Time-Life 8 CD set called AM Gold. It has 5 cd's listed as 1965-1969, and the others titled as The Mid '60's, The '60's Generation, and #1 Hits of the Seventies '70-'74, which I ended up buying. Some of the songs are in mono and some are in stereo. I took 35 of the stereo songs and gave them the SpecWeb treatment.

The majority of the conversions came out great. One of the songs was American Woman, and I swear it sounds better than the Mch SACD version. California Dreamin' has the female vocal overdubs in the LS speaker while the male vocal overdubs are in the RS. Spinning Wheel sounds like you're sitting in the middle of the band. Results varied on some of the other songs like Love Potion #9.

I just downloaded version 1.4 and tested with 2 songs that I felt didn't come out so well before (I only use the defaults and never change the settings), Yellow Submarine and Savoy Truffle, both from the 2009 stereo remasters. Well, this time the results were great.

 

[Plan9]

@Plan9

Thanks for your inputs!

"SoX is very fast and sounds good. This is a good tool to check the quality differences between resamplers: http://src.infinitewave.ca/"

Yes, that is what led me to SSRC, even over sox (but you can convince me if you have done comparative listening tests).

SSRC by itself only supports wav, and is a standalone exe. There is ea3to (a sox alternative), in which they recompiled SSRC as a lib, but that hasn't been updated since 2008.

For the next version of SpecWeb, I'm thinking of including up/down sample, even though we have an excellent helper app, QQHelper, that does that (and any day now, AudioMuxer will also support SpecWeb in its Audio Conversion tool).

That would allow me to control the resampler options, again to preserve the loudness/dynamics of the original stereo and better ensure quality of results.

I haven't done extensive comparisons, but I briefly compared SoX and SSRC on one downsample, and although the difference was so small to be almost in the imaginary domain, SSRC seemed to have a harder sound that led me to prefer SoX for the moment. YMMV.

 

[Simon A]

Today's my SpecWeb baptism. I've decided to give it a go.

What does it mean when instead of seeing the Master Limiter page I see ir filed in white with the message: Hello World!

Is this a bug?

 

[himey]

Today's my SpecWeb baptism. I've decided to give it a go.

What does it mean when instead of seeing the Master Limiter page I see ir filed in white with the message: Hello World!

Is this a bug?

Sorry I can't specifically help you with your problem, but generally, I had much better luck with 1.3 version finishing the upmix conversion than with my limited time with 1.4. Rarely ever had any problems with 1.3. This new version seems to run into roadblocks and the albums end up messing up. A few songs will go fine but not the entire list of songs.

 

[GOS]

Sorry I can't specifically help you with your problem, but generally, I had much better luck with 1.3 version finishing the upmix conversion than with my limited time with 1.4. Rarely ever had any problems with 1.3. This new version seems to run into roadblocks and the albums end up messing up. A few songs will go fine but not the entire list of songs.

I agree. I've had 2 conversions blow up. Also, I dunno. 1.4 seems to place a lot of volume in the center channel. Not much going on in rears. Compared to previous anyway. But, the weird sounds that used to be present have vanished. That's good.

 

[Simon A]

I agree. I've had 2 conversions blow up. Also, I dunno. 1.4 seems to place a lot of volume in the center channel. Not much going on in rears. Compared to previous anyway. But, the weird sounds that used to be present have vanished. That's good.

I've changed the settings so that the Center Channel's input is lower by -3 and the Fronts & Rears are brought up by +2. For my set-up, that's a pretty good balance. I've checked a few files in Audacity so I could see what to adjust. Then I made the final tweaks after a few playbacks.

I'm about to listen to my first complete album and I'm looking forward to hearing the results.

 

[himey]

I agree. I've had 2 conversions blow up. Also, I dunno. 1.4 seems to place a lot of volume in the center channel. Not much going on in rears. Compared to previous anyway. But, the weird sounds that used to be present have vanished. That's good.

I never turn on my center channel with upmixes. I set my processor to 4.0. I have never liked the way these upmixes handle the center. For true 5.1 discrete mixes, I set my processor back to standard 5.1. Just deriving rears from a two channel source is tough enough and expecting a center channel to sound cohesive, is too much to ask imo.

I have only compared a few songs that I did in both 1.3 version AND 1.4, and it didn't sound better, or worse.

Her Satanic Majesties Request, puts the lead vocals in the rear channels and I was hoping the new version changed that. That was a lot to ask it to do I know, but it didn't change it.

I still want to test a few songs with 1.4 that I know sound great with 1.3 but with all the hassles with 1.4, I may just wait till the next version update.

 

[himey]

I've changed the settings so that the Center Channel's input is lower by -3 and the Fronts & Rears are brought up by +2. For my set-up, that's a pretty good balance. I've checked a few files in Audacity so I could see what to adjust. Then I made the final tweaks after a few playbacks.

I'm about to listen to my first complete album and I'm looking forward to hearing the results.

Which album?

All the old Floyd that has true stereo tracks from studio sessions have come out excellent. Same with Zappa stuff. Beck's stuff that uses a lot of electronic sound effects soun great, but not his acoustic stuff...

 

[Simon A]

Which album?

All the old Floyd that has true stereo tracks from studio sessions have come out excellent. Same with Zappa stuff. Beck's stuff that uses a lot of electronic sound effects sound great, but not his acoustic stuff...

Daft Punk - Tron Legacy (Special Edition)

I dream of a real 5.1 mix but this will do for now.

Next:

Marvin Gaye - Trouble Man Soundtrack
Jean Michel Jarre - Equinoxe
Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene
John Barry - Lounge Legends

 

[JerseyEd]

I was glad to see others commenting about 1.4.

I've been playing with 1.4 for about a week now and comparing the results with my 1.31 conversions. I too have had the conversion blow up problems. My test subjects have been "The Beatles (The White Album)", "History Never Repeats; Best of Split Enz", and "ELO - A New World Record", all of which came out really good with 1.31. The White Album came out great with 1.4, especially since "Savoy Truffle" (which was great with 1.4) had not turned out well with 1.31. But ANWR and HNR weren't as good as with 1.31. Those 2 had the same issues as stated above, loud center and quieter rears.

Although I always take the defaults I decided to MAN UP and try adding "-V0" to the command line to see what happened. I've also tried with and without going through AudioMuxer and both ways produced the same exact results, as verified with Audacity, although there were no crashes when using AM. I currently have 5 conversions of "One Step Ahead" in my test folder.

Hope to read more about how QQ members are doing with it.

P.S. Sorry for going off topic, but is there a Foobar thread on the forum? I searched for one but couldn't find any.

 

[himey]

Daft Punk - Tron Legacy (Special Edition)

I dream of a real 5.1 mix but this will do for now.

Next:

Marvin Gaye - Trouble Man Soundtrack
Jean Michel Jarre - Equinoxe
Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene
John Barry - Lounge Legends

Great selection! I will try some Daft Punk next and we can compare results...

 

[zeerround]

Today's my SpecWeb baptism. I've decided to give it a go.

What does it mean when instead of seeing the Master Limiter page I see ir filed in white with the message: Hello World!

Is this a bug?

Yes that would be a bug with the VST failing to launch. Can you reproduce constantly with a particular song or something?