DIGITAL The Alan Parsons Project - The Turn of a Friendly Card (2023 Blu-Ray 5.1 mix)

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steelydave

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As I mentioned on the thread about the recent box set reissue of APP's Pyramid album, I was so annoyed by how the 5.1 mix of The Turn of a Friendly Card sounded, that I took it upon myself to try and de-turd-ify (highly technical industry jargon) the 5.1 mix because it's by far my favourite APP album, and it seemed like underneath the piercing treble, weirdly scooped-out midrange and lack of low-end impact that there was actually a pretty good mix.

I also felt like (as mentioned in the post linked above) that most of this damage (for lack of a better word) was done during the mastering phase - or at least as a global EQ applied to the entire mix during export - because it wasn't like only specific elements within the mix like vocals or hi-hats were affected by the scooped mids and boosted top end, it was everything. To me this suggested that the mix could probably be salvaged with judicious (extreme) use of EQ, based on the premise that if the 5.1 mix had a similar instrument and vocal balances to the stereo mix with the only difference being that they were spread between five channels instead of two, that if I make the tonality of the 5.1 mix match the stereo mix then the 5.1 mix should sound good.

Just as a sidenote, and you can skip this paragraph if you don't want to hear me talk about myself and my feelings: I find myself having to do this kind of thing, remaster, adjust, or somehow "fix" surround mixes released by the major labels (or licensees thereof) and I've grown to become really resentful of it. It's incredibly frustrating and disheartening to feel like these companies - three of which own what feels like 90% of all the popular recorded music of the last century - who should be doing their utmost to present the part of our shared cultural heritage that they're lucky enough to be stewards of in the best possible light, but instead choose to use either mastering engineers (and other people involved with these projects) who either don't understand or don't care about the preferences of their target audience, or even indeed what objectively "good" sounding audio is, or in many cases no mastering engineer at all. Granted I'm not party to the financial, corporate/managerial or artistic pressures on any of these projects, but to me it seems insane to push stuff like this out the door without having a recognized, qualified expert run the auditory ruler over it, especially when you're marketing these products as an upgrade on the versions that have come before. Every LP cut back in the day was done by a craftsman whose life's work was cutting LPs, and during the golden age of CD reissues the same handful of guys who had 15 or 20 years of LP mastering were responsible for mastering thousands of CDs and as listeners we all benefited from that accrued experience. It feels like we have far too many jacks-of-all-trades in the production chain these days: tape transfer specialists who also do mixing; mixing engineers who master their own work; Blu-Ray authors with a sideline in mastering, and guys who do even more of those things all at the same time, and the result of having all these "lowest quote wins the contract" people is that we have no masters of any of the individual disciplines unless you're Pink Floyd or something. I appreciate that the industry has contracted a great deal in the last couple of decades and that the budgets for projects like these have gone down accordingly, but there has to be a better way to do things, because I refuse to believe that "economical" and "good" are entirely mutually exclusive, when a no-talent like me can detect and remedy what seem like obvious issues like channel assignment errors, out-of-phase channels and out of sync LFE tracks, for example.

But anyway, I digress - the point being that (outside of Mike's D-V masterings) I find myself regularly having to "fix" new surround releases in some way or another to make them personally palatable, and while I've posted my fair share of them here on QQ, there are so many more that I've kept schtum about, partly because I feel like some of these releases need to fail in order for some of these companies to change their ways (and that they won't if there's a 'Catcher in the Rye' like me saving them before they go off the cliff) and also because I'd like to see them paying me (or someone like me) to act as a mastering/quality control consultant. But, I'm breaking my self-imposed rule with this one because I really like this mix and I'm hoping that a few more people the the capability to replicate my work will get to enjoy (rather than endure) it.

To do this work, I used a VST plugin called CurveEQ by Voxengo. I'll spare the tutorial because you don't know how to use it in order to take advantage of my EQ curves, but in a nutshell it's a 30-point graphic EQ where you can play it two different recordings (in this case the stereo mix and the 5.1 mix) and then it will generate an EQ curve that "describes" the difference between the two. So I can play recordings of each track (stereo and 5.1) and then end up with an EQ curve to make the 5.1 version sound (tonality-wise) like the stereo mix. The one caveat is that CurveEQ isn't free - it's about $80 USD, but Voxengo are currently running a promotion (15% off + 8% "flash discount") that knocks it down to $62, at least in my web browser. Having used it extensively over the last couple of years, I can say for me anyway that it's a very fair value at that price.

On a related note, for the purposes of comparison I used the 2004 Classic Records HDAD, which is a double-sided DVD-V with 192/24 stereo on one side, and 96/24 stereo on the other. Supposedly the master used for this release came from Parsons' own collection, and for me it's easily the best-sounding mastering of this album. Like a lot of albums, the 80's CD versions of ToaFC are bright and brittle sounding, and the modern remasters are compressed, but this one has just about perfect tonality. Really nice midrange and great deep bass extension that no other version has, and it's 192/24 to top it off. Having said all that, however, there is one problem with this remaster - the left-right balance skewed slightly to one side (sorry, can't remember which way now, but it's obvious in the waveforms) for some reason, by somewhere between 1.5 and 2dB. Not enough to be catastrophic, but it pushes the phantom center (lead vocals in particular) slightly to one side of 12 o'clock. So if you have this, it's worth fixing as it really improves the phantom center.

If you don't have (or don't want to pay for) CurveEQ, applying similar looking curves should yield a positive (though not as precise) result, and for those with CurveEQ, I've attached the .CSV (save) files for the 10 tracks. Seeing as .CSV (comma-separated value) are just text files, if you don't have CurveEQ, you can open these in your spreadsheet software (like Microsoft Excel) and it will display them in two columns, one column for the frequency band in Hz, and another column for the boost (or cut) in dB to that frequency band.


1724963323220.png

(So this is the lower frequency range of track 1, +6.64dB at 20Hz, +6.32dB at 25.38Hz, and so on...)

Anyway, without further ado, here are the screenshots of the EQ curves for all 10 tracks - the green (front) waveform is the 5.1 mix, the pink (rear) waveform is the stereo, and the orange line running through the middle is the actual EQ curve applied.

01-May Be a Price to Pay

1.jpg


02-Games People Play
2.jpg


03-Time
3.jpg


04-I Don’t Wanna Go Home
4.jpg


05-The Gold Bug
5.jpg


06-The Turn of a Friendly Card, Part One
6.jpg


07-Snake Eyes
7.jpg


08-The Ace of Swords
8.jpg


09-Nothing Left to Lose
9.jpg


10-The Turn of a Friendly Card, Part Two
10.jpg


Obviously the curves vary somewhat from track to track, but you can see that generally they all need way more bass, an injection of midrange somewhere around 5kHz (to give the vocals and instruments body and presence) and a big treble roll-off starting around 10kHz to tame the sibilant hi-hats and piercing nature of other instruments like horns and cymbals.

It's also worth noting that if you are using CurveEQ, because it boosts as well as cuts in generating curves it sometimes results in the output track having louder peaks than the original - in the case of this album everything is normalized to 0dB so to avoid clipping you need to reduce your master volume to avoid clipping. These are the reductions I jotted down when I was doing mine, though your results may vary:

Track 1 - Master bus: -1.6dB
Track 2 - Master bus: -2.7dB
Track 3 - Master bus: -2.0dB
Track 4 - Master bus: -2.8dB
Track 5 - Master bus: -3.9dB
Track 6 - Master bus: -4.1dB
Track 7 - Master bus: -4.1dB
Track 8 - Master bus: -3.9dB
Track 9 - Master bus: -3.9dB
Track 10- Master bus: -2.3dB

Track 6 segues into Track 7, and Track 8 segues into track 9, so whatever you choose to do, the reductions for these two pairs of tracks should be the same (6 same as 7, 8 same as 9) otherwise you'll get a "volume hiccup" as one track switches to the other.

When I finished exporting my new "remastered" 5.1 mix and listened to it back, I still wasn't entirely happy - aside from the EQ problems, this mix was also hit with a really unnecessary brick-wall limiter, and maybe other compression, I don't know, but the clipped peaks are visually obvious when you look at the waveforms. Normally I'm not one to bother with de-clipping audio as I think it has minimal impact (and I don't believe it actually does anything for dynamic range) but this album is so immaculately recorded I felt like I could hear a kind of "halo of distortion" around particularly loud transients, notably snare drum hits and cymbal crashes.

Because this 5.1 mix was normalized with everything peaking at 0dB, if I did want to reconstruct the clipped peaks I knew I needed to reduce the overall volume of the whole album so there was headroom for them to expand into, so I had to come up with some kind of way of deciding how much to turn it down by. It was sort of a three bears situation - if I didn't turn it down enough, it wouldn't be possible to fully reconstruct the peaks at maximum amplitude, and if I reduced it by too much I was basically losing fidelity by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio unnecessarily. I don't know if it's flawed logic, but the "just right" methodology I went with was that I looked at the DR of the original stereo mix (DR14) and then looked at the DR readings of individual channels in the 5.1 mix (FL and FR were about DR9, and then the C, Ls and Rs were at or above DR14) and came to the conclusion that the difference between the clipped FL & FR channels (DR9) and the other channels (DR14) which was 5dB seemed like a good number.

Here's a sample of my work on Track 2 ('Games People Play'):

(Original track with peaks at 0dB)
1724965245279.png


(Track volume reduced by 5dB - I think you can really see how much brick-wall limiting there is in this view)
1724965298221.png


(With the clipped peaks restored, and probably a lot like the track looked before it was originally mastered, with the louder parts allowed to 'breathe' properly.)
1724965389221.png


Now I'm fully willing to admit that it may be placebo effect to some degree, but to my ears, de-clipping the album seemed to help with the previously-described "halo of distortion" issue. It's not 100% gone (you can't unburn the toast, but you can put butter on it) but it feels like this sonic therapy has taken the edge off it and pushed it into the background.

Now (in closing, finally!) I'm not saying this mix is 100% perfect - it feels a bit sterile occasionally, probably as the result of being done in a DAW in 2023 and not in a multi-million dollar recording studio, and there are times where Parsons could've been more Dark-Side-of-the-Moon-quad aggressive, but overall it's a very satisfying listen once put the EQ and compression issues into a headlock and punch them into submission. If anyone else cares to try and replicate my work (and to the handful of compadres I've shared samples of my work on this album with) I'd be interested to hear what you think.
 

Attachments

  • APP_ToaFC_CurveEQ.zip
    3.3 KB
To do this work, I used a VST plugin called CurveEQ by Voxengo. I'll spare the tutorial because you don't know how to use it in order to take advantage of my EQ curves, but in a nutshell it's a 30-point graphic EQ where you can play it two different recordings (in this case the stereo mix and the 5.1 mix) and then it will generate an EQ curve that "describes" the difference between the two. So I can play recordings of each track (stereo and 5.1) and then end up with an EQ curve to make the 5.1 version sound (tonality-wise) like the stereo mix. The one caveat is that CurveEQ isn't free - it's about $80 USD, but Voxengo are currently running a promotion (15% off + 8% "flash discount") that knocks it down to $62, at least in my web browser. Having used it extensively over the last couple of years, I can say for me anyway that it's a very fair value at that price
For anyone with a Mac, Apple's Logic Pro has a stock plugin called Match EQ that performs the same function. At a one-time payment of $200, Logic represents perhaps the best value in DAWs due to its comprehensive collection of stock audio processing plugins, virtual instruments, production tools, and prerecorded loops. It also includes Apple's Spatial Audio renderer at no extra cost, allowing you to mix in surround or immersive on either headphones (no additional hardware required) or speakers (with the appropriate audio interface).
 
Thank you for all of your hard work here @steelydave . It’s a travesty that we have been denied enjoyment of this album in surround.

I tried a different route, and only on one song, Games People Play. I found the separated backing vocals in the rears absolutely grating. So I separated out the rear vocals using DeMix Pro and gave them a ridiculously deep EQ cut / trough to try to get the grain out of the rears. This in addition to a general treble cut across the board, but nothing as sophisticated as your effort.

I’m wondering, are you pleased with how the vocals sound on Games People Play using your applied EQ?
 
For anyone with a Mac, Apple's Logic Pro has a stock plugin called Match EQ that performs the same function. At a one-time payment of $200, Logic represents perhaps the best value in DAWs due to its comprehensive collection of stock audio processing plugins, virtual instruments, production tools, and prerecorded loops. It also includes Apple's Spatial Audio renderer at no extra cost, allowing you to mix in surround or immersive on either headphones (no additional hardware required) or speakers (with the appropriate audio interface).
Hear hear!
 
Thank you for all of your hard work here @steelydave . It’s a travesty that we have been denied enjoyment of this album in surround.

I tried a different route, and only on one song, Games People Play. I found the separated backing vocals in the rears absolutely grating. So I separated out the rear vocals using DeMix Pro and gave them a ridiculously deep EQ cut / trough to try to get the grain out of the rears. This in addition to a general treble cut across the board, but nothing as sophisticated as your effort.

I’m wondering, are you pleased with how the vocals sound on Games People Play using your applied EQ?

Yes, very happy with all aspects of it. Maybe I could do a stereo downmix of 30 seconds of the track and put it on YouTube or something, if you want to hear it?
 
Just as a sidenote, and you can skip this paragraph if you don't want to hear me talk about myself and my feelings: I find myself having to do this kind of thing, remaster, adjust, or somehow "fix" surround mixes released by the major labels (or licensees thereof) and I've grown to become really resentful of it. It's incredibly frustrating and disheartening to feel like these companies - three of which own what feels like 90% of all the popular recorded music of the last century - who should be doing their utmost to present the part of our shared cultural heritage that they're lucky enough to be stewards of in the best possible light, but instead choose to use either mastering engineers (and other people involved with these projects) who either don't understand or don't care about the preferences of their target audience, or even indeed what objectively "good" sounding audio is, or in many cases no mastering engineer at all. Granted I'm not party to the financial, corporate/managerial or artistic pressures on any of these projects, but to me it seems insane to push stuff like this out the door without having a recognized, qualified expert run the auditory ruler over it, especially when you're marketing these products as an upgrade on the versions that have come before. Every LP cut back in the day was done by a craftsman whose life's work was cutting LPs, and during the golden age of CD reissues the same handful of guys who had 15 or 20 years of LP mastering were responsible for mastering thousands of CDs and as listeners we all benefited from that accrued experience. It feels like we have far too many jacks-of-all-trades in the production chain these days: tape transfer specialists who also do mixing; mixing engineers who master their own work; Blu-Ray authors with a sideline in mastering, and guys who do even more of those things all at the same time, and the result of having all these "lowest quote wins the contract" people is that we have no masters of any of the individual disciplines unless you're Pink Floyd or something. I appreciate that the industry has contracted a great deal in the last couple of decades and that the budgets for projects like these have gone down accordingly, but there has to be a better way to do things, because I refuse to believe that "economical" and "good" are entirely mutually exclusive, when a no-talent like me can detect and remedy what seem like obvious issues like channel assignment errors, out-of-phase channels and out of sync LFE tracks, for example.
Whoo-ee--this is amazing! Thanks for some incredible work. (And for the meticulous documentation.)

But beyond that praise, I also wanna chime in from the Amen Corner on the bit you invited us to skip over--which I think is essential.

To be honest: maybe, like a lot of people, I’m just so thankful and elated to be getting so many classic albums reissued in high-res formats that half the time I don't notice these sonic problems myself--until somebody with more finely tuned ears brings them to my attention. (Or if I do notice, it takes the form of a self-doubting, half-formed misgiving, like “Are my ears out of whack, or does that sound really crunchy?” or “Did I just forget, or were the lead vocals also that buried on the stereo version?) Then it’s like a veil being lifted.

And I don’t think it’s purely a matter of “personal preference,” either. A lot of the titles you’re alluding to sound objectively bad. Granted: a lot of people, maybe the majority of us, either don’t hear the difference or aren’t bothered by it, in the same way most people can’t tell when a singer or an instrument is sharp or flat. And that’s totally fine. But for people who do hear it and can tell the difference, it can be not just bothersome but painful.

And also, as you say, kind of shameful. Or at least careless. I’m not naïve, and I get that for all sorts of reasons we’re talking about niche products with tiny budgets (even if, big-picture, the majors are once again rolling in dough, thanks to streaming). Just the same, I thought that in the wake of the Universal fire, etc., the big guys were at least giving least lip service to the idea they’re not just bottom-line profit seekers but also stewards of a cultural heritage. And any reissue program worth its salt has always involved not just routine due diligence but also basic QC. So . . . no disrespect or ingratitude towards anybody involved in these programs; I know there are mensches among them with the best of motives, and I mean what I say as friendly criticism. But if you’re gonna market something as audiophile (and let’s agree that “audiophile” does not merely equal “high-res”), then common sense says you’d wanna run it by some people with proven good ears before you put it out there for posterity. That way, all of your target buyers are happy. Apart from everything else, that’s just good business, right?
 
@steelydave , I'm wondering if you have ever taken a crack at adjusting the EQ on the 5.1 of Year Of The Cat using this CurveEQ plugin. The album could use some high-end EQ work. I manipulated it by applying troughs centered at 8000 Hz which helped; but I'm sure that someone could achieve better results using more sophisticated techniques.
 
@steelydave , I'm wondering if you have ever taken a crack at adjusting the EQ on the 5.1 of Year Of The Cat using this CurveEQ plugin. The album could use some high-end EQ work. I manipulated it by applying troughs centered at 8000 Hz which helped; but I'm sure that someone could achieve better results using more sophisticated techniques.

I haven't, but it's on my "to do" list, along with Time Passages and Ammonia Avenue, and a number of other modern surround reissues of vintage material - I'll keep schtum on those for now, because I don't have empirical evidence and I guess (understandably) people don't like being told that music they've paid a lot of money for has problems with it, judging from the reactions to my posts about the LFE phase issue elsewhere.

But Year of the Cat, Time Passages and Ammonia Avenue all seem to be as similarly blighted as Turn of a Friendly Card generally speaking ("smiley face" EQ, brick-wall limiting) so I'm relatively confident they can be repaired in the same way.

The only reason I haven't gotten around to it yet is motivation: doing this work usually takes a couple of days worth of free time per album, if I'm lucky, and I don't like these other albums as much as Turn of a Friendly Card. Doing this kind of restoration work is kind of like looking at the music through a microscope, and if you spend too long with it, you can quickly burn out on (or even loathe) an album you used to love, so I try and limit the amount of this kind of work that I do, or at least the amount of it that I do consecutively. There are still a number of Q8 conversions I did back in the day that feel like "going to work" when I listen to them even now, almost 20 years later, because I hadn't learned this lesson back then and spent days (and sometimes weeks) trying to make something imperfect perfect, so I'm keen not to lose the joie de vivre (so to speak) for any more albums. So having said that, I will try and share my findings on these albums if (and when) I do get around to working on them.
 
@steelydave , Thank You for sharing your time and effort and most importantly the results!
I read every word you posted and I'll be honest, I had to reread many sentences, to try to comprehend it. Everything is way over my head, but my ears know the difference, it's the why I don't understand.
I feel honored to be on a forum with the amount of knowledge on it from mods/members.
Knowledge that is freely shared.
Kudos to you sir
 
@steelydave , Thank You for sharing your time and effort and most importantly the results!
I read every word you posted and I'll be honest, I had to reread many sentences, to try to comprehend it. Everything is way over my head, but my ears know the difference, it's the why I don't understand.
I feel honored to be on a forum with the amount of knowledge on it from mods/members.
Knowledge that is freely shared.
Kudos to you sir

Thank you Bruce, this is genuinely one of the nicest compliments I've received on here, and it makes investing my time in stuff like this feel so much more worthwhile.
 
I found it so bright sounding too. Sometimes cymbals, sometimes vocals, sometimes the whole song. But I used a dynamic EQ, or Deesser or curve EQ or a combination (using Nuendo) depending on the results I wanted to achieve. And: yes, bass is missing. I gave it a heavy push to almost every song as far as I remember now.

Pyramid I did not buy yet because of the useless vinyl bundled. Is it so bright sounding as well? So it would need a similar treatment before it is enjoyable? Difficult with Atmos. The DRP is required, which I don't have...
 
Ended up doing it myself, converting to the old XML format and then converting to the new txt format with the included plugin.

I attach a zip with the converted files. You can import them through the GraphicEQ Effect in Audacity. Hope it will save some time to somebody.
 

Attachments

  • Turn of a Friendly Card EQ Audacity.zip
    5 KB
I found it so bright sounding too. Sometimes cymbals, sometimes vocals, sometimes the whole song. But I used a dynamic EQ, or Deesser or curve EQ or a combination (using Nuendo) depending on the results I wanted to achieve. And: yes, bass is missing. I gave it a heavy push to almost every song as far as I remember now.

Pyramid I did not buy yet because of the useless vinyl bundled. Is it so bright sounding as well? So it would need a similar treatment before it is enjoyable? Difficult with Atmos. The DRP is required, which I don't have...
No need to modify Pyramid. The new mixes are fine! (y)
 
Listened a bit after applying the EQ profiles.
It's definitely better. But, for instance, at 1.47 in "Nothing Left to Lose"... what was AP thinking to have our ears pierced by that synth sound? I can't believe my ears... it's not like that in 2004 Classic Records HDAD's version.
@steelydave
any idea on how the above could be fixed? I wouldn't even know what effects to look for in Audacity... I could probably use a machine with Audition, in case it could help.

EDIT: tried in many ways but I couldn't succeed.
 
Last edited:
@steelydave
any idea on how the above could be fixed? I wouldn't even know what effects to look for in Audacity... I could probably use a machine with Audition, in case it could help.

EDIT: tried in many ways but I couldn't succeed.

I just listened to that section on my 192/24 stereo version (from the HDAD DVD, which was the basis for these adjustments) and then on my remastered 5.1 and aside from the fact that the 5.1 is a bit more compressed than the stereo, they sound almost identical to my ears in terms of tonality.

It's hard for me to diagnose because I don't use Audacity and I don't know exactly how you've converted my EQ curves into Audacity EQ curves, but you may want to re-check your calculations if it sounds that objectionable. The only other thing I can think of is that if you haven't reduced your preamp/input volume prior to the EQ, then your adjustments are pushing the peaks above 0dB and causing clipping. As you can see from my list of adjustments I had to reduce the volume of Nothing Left to Lose (Track 9) by 3.9dB before feeding it to the EQ plugin to avoid clipping.

I dunno if anyone else has undertaken these adjustments (@MrSmithers mentioned to me that he was going to try, but I'm not sure if he did or not) but maybe someone more well versed with Audacity could chime in.
 
I just listened to that section on my 192/24 stereo version (from the HDAD DVD, which was the basis for these adjustments) and then on my remastered 5.1 and aside from the fact that the 5.1 is a bit more compressed than the stereo, they sound almost identical to my ears in terms of tonality.

It's hard for me to diagnose because I don't use Audacity and I don't know exactly how you've converted my EQ curves into Audacity EQ curves, but you may want to re-check your calculations if it sounds that objectionable. The only other thing I can think of is that if you haven't reduced your preamp/input volume prior to the EQ, then your adjustments are pushing the peaks above 0dB and causing clipping. As you can see from my list of adjustments I had to reduce the volume of Nothing Left to Lose (Track 9) by 3.9dB before feeding it to the EQ plugin to avoid clipping.

I dunno if anyone else has undertaken these adjustments (@MrSmithers mentioned to me that he was going to try, but I'm not sure if he did or not) but maybe someone more well versed with Audacity could chime in.
Two things: I have converted the values to a format that Audacity can recognize, but if you check my zip file you will see that the values are the same. It's only Audacity's format that's, IMHO, a bit backwards in how it's written out.

I did not forget preamp values, I'm familiar with EQ and the risks of clipping from many years of EQing headphones.

Having said this, I will relisten to both the 192/24 and 5.1 96/24 and report back. To my ears it was almost offending... which it's not a criticism towards what you did here, mind. It was worse before. I listen in a heavily acoustically treated room, btw, so I'm kind of confident that it's not my room influencing the sound (especially considering we're talking medium high frequencies, spectral analysis indicates between 2000 and 3000, more or less, with peaks at 2200 and 2800).
 
which it's not a criticism towards what you did here
While this remains valid in any case and above all else, I notice in your 9.csv file the following:

1847.34,0.31
2344.20,1.56
2974.70,0.82
3774.78,1.97
4790.05,0.94

It's not very heavy EQing, as far as values are concerned, but it's probably emphasizing what I'm hearing there, considering the frequencies involved.
 
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