BluRay Music Video Poll The Beatles - 1/1+ [BluRay]

[skherbeck]

I give this a 6... 0 points for surround (this should not be advertised as a "surround mix"), 3 for content (the songs are The Beatles #1 Hits, so 'nuff said about that, and the video content has pristine versions of the stuff we've seen before, and plenty of new bits as well), 2 for fidelity (the sound quality is excellent on the studio recordings, and while personally I'm glad they included some live versions, the sound quality of these live versions is less than perfect), and 1 bonus point for gorgeous packaging. I love this release as a "video product" and will proudly keep it on my music video shelf... But this IS NOT a "surround" release IMHO.

 

[ar surround]

I just made it through the first disc, listening in both 5.1 DTS Master Audio and stereo PCM with Logic 7 enhancement. I guess that my expectations have been tempered during the last few days as I don't feel the need to trash this product.

Things I like so far:
- Since we already have some of this music on video and complete or near complete tracks on Love, the alternate "live" audios are interesting to me, i.e. A Hard Day's Night and Hey Jude
- Some of the 5.1 tracks sound "near audiophile quality" to my aging ears, i.e. Paperback Writer and Let It Be; but nothing here quite matches the audio quality of Love.
- Some of the 5.1 tracks project more clarity than the 2009 stereo mixes: Hello Goodbye, Penny Lane and especially Let It Be
- While I Feel Fine may not have audiophile quality sound, this is the cleanest I've ever heard this cut. Remember how awful it sounded in duophonic on Beatles '65?
- I can mitigate the suspected issue with the LFE track by notching down the bass and tweeking the treble (I do this with the mono box also.)

Things I don't like so far:
- From Me to You sounds awful. They should have just used the studio mono recording.
- Some of the studio mix 5.1 (and stereo) tracks are not of the best quality. I am particularly disappointed with Get Back. I flipped back and forth between the BluRay and the Past Masters CD and I much prefer the CD. The BluRay sounds muddy in comparison. Continuing with this thought...
- The jury is still out on whether the redux of Day Tripper and We Can Work It Out is successful. I say this because the bootleg CD called Backtrack has both of these songs in stereo with the vocals centered and has a lot of presence. As for the new mixes on the Bluray, well something just doesn't seem quite right but I can't put my finger on it.
- Regarding All You Need is Love, they really nailed it on Love. I never liked this song until I heard it on Love and realized how beautiful it sounds when delivered properly. On this new Bluray, it grates my ears again.
- The lack of imagination employed throughout the 5.1 mix is a major disappointment.

I won't give a rating until I've had a chance to go through the second disc and listen to / tweek this one a bit more.

 

[ar surround]

BlyRay Disc 2 and employing Electronic Shenanigans:

I went through the second disc and also played around electronically with the first disc. I really like what Giles did with Twist and Shout as I believe he got the best surround presentation possible from a twin track recording without resorting to something like spectral analysis. I wish they had done the same with Please Please Me instead of employing the live recording.

I did not care for the alternate versions other than Get Back which truly has different audio that audiophilically sounds better than the version on disc 1. All of the other alternate versions give us the same audio as on disc 1 but with different videos. The disc also gives a taste of just how unsatisfying Gile's new 5.1 mixes are by throwing in Within You Without You/Tomorrow Never Knows, Free As A Bird and Real Love in true 5.1.

I turned off the TV and listened to a number of tracks as I consider the videos a distraction while trying to analyze the audio independently. I would say that the audio quality on the studio tracks is generally excellent - well detailed and clear.

Now regarding the electronic shenanigans: I have a Lexicon RV-8 which allows me to superimpose Logic 7 decoding on top of a 5.1 recording. Doing so either makes a silk purse out of a sow's ear or gives disastrous results. In the case of these big-stereo presentations, it greatly improves the immersiveness of the recording. It also takes a good bit of that reverb from the surrounds and routs it to the rear speakers. I can adjust the volume of the rears to fine tune the amount of reverberation that I like. So with this Logic 7 manipulation I can make these 5.1 recordings sound like an 8+. However, most people don't have this capability and should not have to resort to electronic skullduggery to obtain satisfying sound from a modern day 5.1 recording. I never have to mess with a Steven Wilson mix in any way!!!

Overall, I rate this package 6.

 

[IanProudfoot]

Shows the value of these polls. I was just about to hit the button to purchase this but had a look at the poll. Decided my money would be better spent elsewhere. Not a huge Beatles fan anyway so was only buying it to help satiate my 5.1 addiction...

 

[edisonbaggins]

Tasteful Big Stereo I can handle, if it makes for an enjoyable view, because it can lend to consistency across different eras of recordings.
But inconsistent mastering crosses the line. I do not want to be twisting knobs between videos to keep the bass under control. Thanks for the analysis.
So Baggins is hoppin on the returns bandwagon...

 

[skherbeck]

Tasteful Big Stereo I can handle, if it makes for an enjoyable view, because it can lend to consistency across different eras of recordings.
But inconsistent mastering crosses the line. I do not want to be twisting knobs between videos to keep the bass under control. Thanks for the analysis.
So Baggins is hoppin on the returns bandwagon...

I don't know if it's worth returning if you enjoy tasteful big stereo, because that's exactly what I find this to be from start to finish. It really is an enjoyable video experience... it's just a letdown in terms of surround. But I guess I'm not an audiophile because I don't find anything about this set to be "awful", just disappointing because of what might have been. Videos taken from live television broadcasts are never going to have the same fidelity as studio recordings.

Also, in terms of LFE issues, I have all my speakers set to "large" in my receiver's bass management, and it sounds fine to me...

 

[GabeL]

My return of this purchase was based on the fact that I felt taken advantage of. As one who specifically purchased the set for the 5.1 mixes, I could not rationalize the $50 expenditure on sub-standard, to be kind, surround mixes. Ah well, I was able to take that money and spend it elsewhere

 

[edisonbaggins]

...I don't find anything about this set to be "awful"...

The other thread (which I thought I posted in) suggests the LFE mastering goofs to be distracting. For the $$ I just don't want to deal with that.
The only way I would be happy with a tame musical presentation is if it makes the experience more consistent. Any issues that call attention to the mix are show-stoppers for me.
Of course, the fact that there is little to no surroundy fun makes the decision pretty easy.

 

[ar surround]

Regardless of my complaints in the posts on page 1 of this thread, and my mediocre rating of 6, I am still glad to have this in my collection. There are quite a number of tracks that will be the "go to" stereo versions as they are far superior to the red book CD's in both sound and mix.

 

[JonUrban]

If you have never or rarely seen these videos and love these songs, this is a great STEREO VIDEO package, no doubt about it, and one we should have gotten years ago. The total disappointment of the trumpeted 5.1 mix aside, it sounds great in stereo and looks great on BluRay.

As for the surround mix, quite frankly they should not have even bothered. I'd rather be annoyed had this came out without a 5.1 mix than be annoyed by the poor job done on what they are claiming as stunning.

It's mostly disappointing because of the 5.1 work done previously on their video releases starting with Anthology, the McCartney Years, the Lennon Collection, Yellow Submarine, Help! and the latest A Hard Days Night, along with the masterpiece "LOVE" DVD-A. Because of these earlier video releases, we would never expect the 5.1 on such a heralded release be so lacking.

So, for STEREO/VIDEO, it's great. For surround, it's not.

There should be no shame in enjoying this set for what it is. Just pretend the surround track is not even there!

 

[jasong]

If you have never or rarely seen these videos and love these songs, this is a great STEREO VIDEO package, no doubt about it, and one we should have gotten years ago. The total disappointment of the trumpeted 5.1 mix aside, it sounds great in stereo and looks great on BluRay.

As for the surround mix, quite frankly they should not have even bothered. I'd rather be annoyed had this came out without a 5.1 mix than be annoyed by the poor job done on what they are claiming as stunning.

It's mostly disappointing because of the 5.1 work done previously on their video releases starting with Anthology, the McCartney Years, the Lennon Collection, Yellow Submarine, Help! and the latest A Hard Days Night, along with the masterpiece "LOVE" DVD-A. Because of these earlier video releases, we would never expect the 5.1 on such a heralded release be so lacking.

So, for STEREO/VIDEO, it's great. For surround, it's not.

There should be no shame in enjoying this set for what it is. Just pretend the surround track is not even there!

HAS ANYBODY HAD THIS PROBLEM WITH THE BLU RAY- when I put the blu ray 1 in , it plays for about 5-8 seconds , then the song and music stops . it does this on each song.this is in the dolby or the dts mode.
When I play it in the stereo mode, no problem

I only have this on the 1 disc not the + disc.

 

[popshop]

Serious question Jon: what do you think is the best way to make sure Giles Martin/Apple know that if they were to do a real 5.1 mix, there is an audience that would buy it (again)?
I feel like returning some copies and grumbling about it isn't going to change much moving forward, yet I think this small market is mighty, and worthy of a voice.

(My takeaway is: the video is stunning, mostly because I've never seen John with such clarity. I'm not much of a John fan, but the restoration work is great, and will look even better in 4k. The surround mix is just sad.)

 

[JonUrban]

Serious question Jon: what do you think is the best way to make sure Giles Martin/Apple know that if they were to do a real 5.1 mix, there is an audience that would buy it (again)?
I feel like returning some copies and grumbling about it isn't going to change much moving forward, yet I think this small market is mighty, and worthy of a voice.

(My takeaway is: the video is stunning, mostly because I've never seen John with such clarity. I'm not much of a John fan, but the restoration work is great, and will look even better in 4k. The surround mix is just sad.)

I think it's a hopeless cause. If Giles thinks what he did with the 1+ is "normal surround", and 'Love' was extreme for a special purpose, they aren't going to get the message by a few returns at Amazon on a video collection.

Our niche in the marketplace is tiny, and the whole disc based deal gets smaller every year. These songs are 50 years old now, and soon the first generation buyers will be gone. Bottom lines are the ticket these days and that will drive the market, not a few wacko's with a web page and a petition.

So to answer your question, I don't think there is much we can do at all.

 

[JonUrban]

HAS ANYBODY HAD THIS PROBLEM WITH THE BLU RAY- when I put the blu ray 1 in , it plays for about 5-8 seconds , then the song and music stops . it does this on each song.this is in the dolby or the dts mode.
When I play it in the stereo mode, no problem

I only have this on the 1 disc not the + disc.

That is odd. It's acting like a DVD-A copy being played in a DVD-A player. I have to sound like an tool, but do you have the latest firmware for your player?

 

[edisonbaggins]

...a few wacko's with a web page...I don't think there is much we can do at all.

We can enjoy being wackos!!!

 

[skherbeck]

Interesting thing about this release... if you look at the reviews on Amazon, the majority of people are raving about this package with only a handful (including myself) commenting on the poor surround mix. I think this exemplifies that the general public doesn't pay much attention to the "surround-sound" aspect of a video release such as this. Maybe if the albums were re-leased (yet again) with surround mixes, a greater emphasis would be placed on immersive mixing since there would only be audio to focus on... I'm not very optimistic, though, that we'll ever see surround mixes of these albums (I hope I'm wrong, though!) It seems like the only way these albums could be sold to the public one last time would be hi-rez versions with surround mixes.

 

[jasong]

its a sony blu ray player. I have no idea how or what to do regarding firmware

 

[GOS]

its a sony blu ray player. I have no idea how or what to do regarding firmware

Oh boy - could be it. Go to Sony site, look for support and locate your model. There should be information about firmware upgrades and how to install them. Easy usually....

 

[LuvMyQuad]

If you have never or rarely seen these videos and love these songs, this is a great STEREO VIDEO package, no doubt about it, and one we should have gotten years ago. The total disappointment of the trumpeted 5.1 mix aside, it sounds great in stereo and looks great on BluRay.

As for the surround mix, quite frankly they should not have even bothered. I'd rather be annoyed had this came out without a 5.1 mix than be annoyed by the poor job done on what they are claiming as stunning.

It's mostly disappointing because of the 5.1 work done previously on their video releases starting with Anthology, the McCartney Years, the Lennon Collection, Yellow Submarine, Help! and the latest A Hard Days Night, along with the masterpiece "LOVE" DVD-A. Because of these earlier video releases, we would never expect the 5.1 on such a heralded release be so lacking.

So, for STEREO/VIDEO, it's great. For surround, it's not.

There should be no shame in enjoying this set for what it is. Just pretend the surround track is not even there!

I was very excited when word came out that this was going to released, but like they say, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The poor surround issue is just one of many lost opportunities in the surround world. But the point Jon is making here is quite valid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the stereo audio contained on this the highest resolution possible at this point in time. The stereo was remixed as well on this. Correct? At one point in my life, a better sounding Beatles re-issue would have been a big deal. Can someone try to describe the quality of the stereo content by comparing it to the most recent stereo re-masters series? I hope asking about the stereo fidelity isn't blasphemy here... but inquiring minds want to know ....before deciding where to spend my hard earned 5.1 dollars.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I was very excited when word came out that this was going to released, but like they say, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The poor surround issue is just one of many lost opportunities in the surround world. But the point Jon is making here is quite valid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the stereo audio contained on this the highest resolution possible at this point in time. The stereo was remixed as well on this. Correct? At one point in my life, a better sounding Beatles re-issue would have been a big deal. Can someone try to describe the quality of the stereo content by comparing it to the most recent stereo re-masters series? I hope asking about the stereo fidelity isn't blasphemy here... but inquiring minds want to know ....before deciding where to spend my hard earned 5.1 dollars.

This is a great question. If the stereo mixes are just to die for, I'd consider picking up the cheapest version possible.