Simon A
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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- 3,165
BluRay Music Video Poll The Beatles - 1/1+ [BluRay]
- Thread starter JonUrban
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Brief review of Disc 2:
Same problems as Disc 1, except we get alternate videos of certain songs, so in toto, there are three times one must suffer through "Hello Goodbye" and without its far superior B-side, "I Am the Walrus" making an appearance (most of it, remember, was in surround on the LOVE DVD-A).
As of "Strawberry Fields" we get *something* resembling surround sound, though even then, it's so half-hearted I had to play it a few times to be sure of the possibility. The failure of this package in 5.1 is summed up with "A Day in the Life." This climactic SGT. PEPPER masterpiece begins with a clean acoustic guitar intro (not faded from the Pepper Reprise from the original Lp) as it had way back when on an old John Lennon CD compilation. But while it does have surround elements, no attempt is made to exploit its potential--and it would take a long post in itself to explain why, and it just isn't in me (yet). But if any track on + had the opportunity to be brilliant and mesmerizing, it was this one...and it underwhelms.
The remainder of the studio tracks in surround are also underwhelming (though the higher the volume, the more I stared at the screen and just enjoyed the videos, which really are very, very well remastered).
Also, the package itself is wonderful in a silly, excessive (and of course, costly to fans) way: hardcover book style, extensive notes, pics, etc.. There is also the 1 CD itself, which was redundant for most of us (which is why the release of this package years earlier, even DVD only, would have made more sense than the this belated offering).
Overall, however, for me--being an old fart like some of us here (you know who you are, heh
)--the rating, after almost a year of mental debate (not that it occupied much time, really) came to a '6.' The rationale was easy, though. Because this is QQ, and not a website about videos specifically, and because surround sound is what we're interested in, this package fails miserably, even if factoring out the non-studio, faux-5.1 material. Which I would have done if the studio recordings had been given smart and sensible (even sometimes, conservative) true 5.1 or quad (the latter even more sensible at times?) mixes.
Basics:
1. Video images: Given what I've seen in the past? Superb all the way.
2. Basic sound: for the stereo track, the mono is good, early stereo very good, and the further we go toward 1970, the better everything gets. But then we go to the 5.1 and....my oh my.
Question for our members: Has anyone involved in the project ever commented on the sound here?
3. Extras: A few commentaries from Paul and Ringo here and there, but nothing comprehensive, which is a pity, since we could have had some thoughts from famous fans, critics, or...Olivia? Yoko? Sean? Dani? Giles? In fact, the menu and intros are beyond minimal--the presentation seems just plain lazy given the work that must have went into the video restorations alone.
Yet for all that, an important package for bringing so many vids together in one place, and offering a skewed but enjoyable overview of why the Beatles remain the greatest pop act of their time--and, arguably, to this day.
ED
Same problems as Disc 1, except we get alternate videos of certain songs, so in toto, there are three times one must suffer through "Hello Goodbye" and without its far superior B-side, "I Am the Walrus" making an appearance (most of it, remember, was in surround on the LOVE DVD-A).
As of "Strawberry Fields" we get *something* resembling surround sound, though even then, it's so half-hearted I had to play it a few times to be sure of the possibility. The failure of this package in 5.1 is summed up with "A Day in the Life." This climactic SGT. PEPPER masterpiece begins with a clean acoustic guitar intro (not faded from the Pepper Reprise from the original Lp) as it had way back when on an old John Lennon CD compilation. But while it does have surround elements, no attempt is made to exploit its potential--and it would take a long post in itself to explain why, and it just isn't in me (yet). But if any track on + had the opportunity to be brilliant and mesmerizing, it was this one...and it underwhelms.
The remainder of the studio tracks in surround are also underwhelming (though the higher the volume, the more I stared at the screen and just enjoyed the videos, which really are very, very well remastered).
Also, the package itself is wonderful in a silly, excessive (and of course, costly to fans) way: hardcover book style, extensive notes, pics, etc.. There is also the 1 CD itself, which was redundant for most of us (which is why the release of this package years earlier, even DVD only, would have made more sense than the this belated offering).
Overall, however, for me--being an old fart like some of us here (you know who you are, heh
)--the rating, after almost a year of mental debate (not that it occupied much time, really) came to a '6.' The rationale was easy, though. Because this is QQ, and not a website about videos specifically, and because surround sound is what we're interested in, this package fails miserably, even if factoring out the non-studio, faux-5.1 material. Which I would have done if the studio recordings had been given smart and sensible (even sometimes, conservative) true 5.1 or quad (the latter even more sensible at times?) mixes.Basics:
1. Video images: Given what I've seen in the past? Superb all the way.
2. Basic sound: for the stereo track, the mono is good, early stereo very good, and the further we go toward 1970, the better everything gets. But then we go to the 5.1 and....my oh my.
Question for our members: Has anyone involved in the project ever commented on the sound here?
3. Extras: A few commentaries from Paul and Ringo here and there, but nothing comprehensive, which is a pity, since we could have had some thoughts from famous fans, critics, or...Olivia? Yoko? Sean? Dani? Giles? In fact, the menu and intros are beyond minimal--the presentation seems just plain lazy given the work that must have went into the video restorations alone.
Yet for all that, an important package for bringing so many vids together in one place, and offering a skewed but enjoyable overview of why the Beatles remain the greatest pop act of their time--and, arguably, to this day.
ED
seilerbird
600 Club - QQ All-Star
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2015
- Messages
- 633
Absolutely. Giles gave an interview last year that explains exactly why it sounds like it sounds and not the 5.1 we desire. In short here is what he said "All of the songs should sound like you remember them," he says. "It's not meant to be the 'Giles Martin version'. I work for the Beatles."
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34766693
I like reading this stuff when all you guys go off and dissect something to death. One thread says; "we need more surround" the other says they "didn't do a good job on surround".
I think this Beatles Blu Ray was done over the top exceptionally well and for a Beatles fan is super great. For the critical audiophile maybe not, but I don't care as I love it.
I think this Beatles Blu Ray was done over the top exceptionally well and for a Beatles fan is super great. For the critical audiophile maybe not, but I don't care as I love it.
I agree that some of the votes for this title are pretty harsh.
Even if you thought the surround mixes were terrible, I would think anyone that likes the Beatles and likes the fidelity of these new mixes could at least give this set a '5'. (Or maybe even go as high as a '7')
Heck, even if one doesn't think the fidelity is that great compared to the original mixes, if you like the music, then this set should at least get a '3'.
Any vote below that is just not fair except if you hate the musical content, and if that is so, then you probably should never have bought this at all.
Members are free to vote as they please, but I only wish that members could fully understand that a vote is not just on how good the surround mix is…
Even if you thought the surround mixes were terrible, I would think anyone that likes the Beatles and likes the fidelity of these new mixes could at least give this set a '5'. (Or maybe even go as high as a '7')
Heck, even if one doesn't think the fidelity is that great compared to the original mixes, if you like the music, then this set should at least get a '3'.
Any vote below that is just not fair except if you hate the musical content, and if that is so, then you probably should never have bought this at all.
Members are free to vote as they please, but I only wish that members could fully understand that a vote is not just on how good the surround mix is…
tbh this is not a Beatles-only thing, I feel this way about the whole situation wrt surround remixes and respecting the original, the 2-channel on the DVD/BD could've been to keep it all as we remember it, whether that was stereo or mono.. then Giles Martin could have gone for it with the 5.1 and all the possibilities surround sound offers.. in this instance it's done, the surround track is what it is.. I'm sure it's sold by the bucketload regardless and many fans the world over are happy, which is what it's all about really..
Hey Ryan, that's a kind of they're free to vote as they please, but they're not free to vote as they please. I know there is a suggestion for a breakdown on how people vote, but I gather it's down to vote how you will and discuss/explain it in the comments. As soon as we start bemoaning low scores we need to give attention again to the blanket high scores, or the marks out of ten thing again (fanboy voting, ooh there's lot of things in the back, nothing should be below five or six, etc.). Also if anybody is like me, it can take a while to find your own sense of scoring scale too.
This is precisely to the statement i made earlier. We know that Giles had access to some tapes with first generation individual istruments before bouncing. However, more advenurous sorround mixing would not sound like you remember them, or how the living Beatles remembered them. If you remember, the Beatles and Martin took a long while to buy into Stereo!
Its amazing that there seems to be two distinct camps on this. One group wants wild discrete new mixes, and the other groug considers that a sacralige.
I personally love the 5.1 mixes because they are essentially enhanced, not changed versions of the original.
That being said, give me really agressive 5.1 mixes for everthing they did from Rubber Soul on, and i would buy them in a heartbeat.
milt
800 Club - QQ All-Star
I liked the Blu-ray as well but I don't think the words "critical audiophile" have anything to do with whether one loves it or hates it.
It's the mix itself that people don't like or think they were led to believe that this release was something that it turned out not to be.
Whether or not that was even truly possible given the source material seems irrelevant.
I consider myself an audiophile I guess considering how much time and money I've invested in A/V and while it's certainly not like Love overall I think it sounds marvelous.
Interesting...but what's left unexplained is the extreme reimagining of the Beatles that was LOVE, and the unimagining (more or less) employed by Giles for this compilation but NOT on previous collections like ANTHOLOGY or a few of the films. And the non-studio recordings and the application of faux 5.1 is not explained, either, and although, reading the story, he seemed to wish merely to enhance the sound rather than totally remix to a more discrete surround, it's referencing ANTHOLOGY and the films that reveals just how limited his remixing really was.
As for 'extreme' remixing, well...that's a matter of opinion. Are the 5.1 mixes in the HELP! film extreme or radical? I don't think so; on the contrary, they retain the spirit of the stereo mixes while expanding the sound field and offering top notch fidelity previously unheard (IMO). That's exactly the kind of remixing expected for this collection, and which simply did not happen.
That doesn't make 1+ terrible, but it sure does make listening to it in 5.1 painful after you've heard the potential reached elsewhere. The bottom line is that, if the release had been stereo only, we probably would have bitched about the lack of 5.1. But here, the lack of sensible 5.1 is the problem. Expectations were high when 5.1 was announced for 1+; it just doesn't deliver in 5.1, regardless of what Giles Martin and some listeners might have us believe. If the 5.1 is disregarded, though, one can say it was a very well done package.
ED
DKA
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
This was under the Christmas tree this year. I'm frankly pretty surprised by the low grades received here, and really think some expectations need to be adjusted. In no way did I expect anything worthwhile, surround-wise of material pre-"Rubber Soul." Yes, I've done better upmixing just rearranging the channels from the faux-stereo, plus adding a LCR center, for those tracks.
The later material, while I haven't worked through all of it, is gold thus far. 'Tommorow Never Knows" and "A Day in the Life" are incredibly immersive, with details around the soundfield that only a professional could bring. "Revolution" feels like it's being played ten feet in front of you in surround. The sound quality, overall, is great, and I very much like the videos.
I'm not one to give high grades easily but, overall package-wise, warts and all, this is a 9.
The later material, while I haven't worked through all of it, is gold thus far. 'Tommorow Never Knows" and "A Day in the Life" are incredibly immersive, with details around the soundfield that only a professional could bring. "Revolution" feels like it's being played ten feet in front of you in surround. The sound quality, overall, is great, and I very much like the videos.
I'm not one to give high grades easily but, overall package-wise, warts and all, this is a 9.
Regardless of vintage, faux surround for any material--and in particular with a band of this calibre--is ridiculous. This aspect alone would knock any audiophile's rating of anything down quite a bit, the SQ nature of much of the later stuff notwithstanding.
The reality is that any non-stereo material should have been mastered flat mono, and any material worthy of multichannel treatment remixed to best effect. Someone made the bonehead decision to make everything *seem surround* and, to compound the felony, didn't properly remix some material that could have been as much fun to hear as on the HELP!, YELLOW SUB and ANTHOLOGY DVD's.
Because this is the Beatles is no logical reason to give them a great rating for a package that is mighty comprehensive for what it is, but is simply too flawed from an audio standpoint to give it a pass.
ED
The reality is that any non-stereo material should have been mastered flat mono, and any material worthy of multichannel treatment remixed to best effect. Someone made the bonehead decision to make everything *seem surround* and, to compound the felony, didn't properly remix some material that could have been as much fun to hear as on the HELP!, YELLOW SUB and ANTHOLOGY DVD's.
Because this is the Beatles is no logical reason to give them a great rating for a package that is mighty comprehensive for what it is, but is simply too flawed from an audio standpoint to give it a pass.
ED
In light of the fanfare over the new Sgt Pepper 5.1 mix, I went back and revisited the 1+ set as well as the Help 5.1 Blu-ray. It made me wonder why Help sounds so good in 5.1 and 1+ generally not so hot. By isolating the surround channels of Help one can tell that it isn't a truly discreet mix. There is mainly duplication of the front channel instruments along with some reverb in the surrounds. But the way they did it makes it sound discreet and just oh so satisfying...an example of professionals achieving optimum results with what was available.
It would seem that Giles Martin use of that big speaker in the back of the room to generate the surround channels is where things went awry on 1+. Had he applied the same treatment as used on Help things may have been more appealing to us surround fanatics.
Despite my mediocre rating of 6 on the 1+ set, I do think that three surround tracks on the first disc are exceptional. I gave them the Sgt Pepper treatment - juiced up the surrounds by 3dB or more. The first is Lady Madonna. It really jumps out of the speakers and sounds satisfyingly immersive. The second, as Eclectic mentioned, is Let It Be. The choral part coming from the juiced up surrounds adds an eerie beauty to this already spiritual song. (Full disclosure: It is one of my all-time favorite Beatles tunes.) The last is Penny Lane which gives the 5.1 version on Pepper some competition. Give these three a go with the juiced up surrounds and tell us what you think.
Hmmm. That's not the way I found it. While the fronts did mirror to the rears, there were "things" back there.
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?20674-Beatles-HELP!-Blu-Ray
I haven't queued it up in a while but I seem to remember distinctive stuff in the rears.
lennon fan
Senior Member
so do I...
lennon fan
Senior Member
the surround mix stinks on this as well as the majority of Pepper.
nice videos and clarity but surround placement is awful.
nice videos and clarity but surround placement is awful.
knifeman
400 Club - QQ All-Star
Scratch and dent. Might get a deal on this if the cosmetics aren't an issue: https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-BEATLE...436209?hash=item2ab71818f1:g:6tEAAOSwPjhbr8Lw
quadrifonico
Senior Member
Perfection don't exist. Let it be and abbey road have Atmos mixes but Sgt pepper 
does not and I'd love to hear certain psychedelic elements in my heights... Can you imagine one day in the life in Atmos?...I do!
Same thing here, this release on CD or dvd or blu ray has many faults, first of all many classic tracks are missing. But for example where can we listen to free as a bird or real love at a higher resolution? Nowhere. So waiting for a better "remake" of this material, "1" is still my favorite for some particular songs or videos
does not and I'd love to hear certain psychedelic elements in my heights... Can you imagine one day in the life in Atmos?...I do!Same thing here, this release on CD or dvd or blu ray has many faults, first of all many classic tracks are missing. But for example where can we listen to free as a bird or real love at a higher resolution? Nowhere. So waiting for a better "remake" of this material, "1" is still my favorite for some particular songs or videos
The entire Sgt. Pepper album does exist in Atmos, streaming on Apple Music. Not on disc though.Perfection don't exist. Let it be and abbey road have Atmos mixes but Sgt pepper
Same thing here, this release on CD or dvd or blu ray has many faults, first of all many classic tracks are missing. But for example where can we listen to free as a bird or real love at a higher resolution? Nowhere. So waiting for a better "remake" of this material, "1" is still my favorite for some particular songs or videos
quadrifonico
Senior Member
thanks for the info; i will listen to that sooner i can; sounds nice or in any way compressed?
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