TIDAL unveils Sony 360 Reality Audio

[beerking]

is this the first bit of HDMI-based 360 Reality Audio decoding equipment?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/sound-bars/ht-a9

4 wireless speakers to give 12ch surround sound!!
No Auro 3D though.

A snip at £1599

Amp included.

Optional subbys

Really...they are determined to ramp up this 360 Reality Audio, thingamajig.

Double

 

[CINERAMAX]

This gives me hope that Denon Marantz's upgrades cannot be too far behind.

 

[beerking]

Sales pitch

 

[DuncanS]

We make you buy this expensive kit, then raise the rent on the music

 

[MagnumX]

is this the first bit of HDMI-based 360 Reality Audio decoding equipment?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/sound-bars/ht-a9

Talk about going back in time. It doesn't even have a center-channel speaker to lock dialog in place for more than one person.... It must use virtualization for overhead sounds since the speakers have no upward firing drivers and there are only 4 speakers. No sub. It looks a bit like Apple Ear Bud equivalents (the old ones) for a living room (i.e. JUNK). Maybe it's FREE with purchase of a Sony TV?

This gives me hope that Denon Marantz's upgrades cannot be too far behind.

Upgrades? D&M doesn't do upgrades (save the 8500 and maybe if you have this year's model). Their idea of a software upgrade is you buying a new receiver. It's sad, but it's largely true.

I asked Auro Technologies recently if they could get an update to Auro-3D to D&M for older models so it could use the 7+4 mode with 13.1 soundtracks (i.e. Most people don't use CH/VOG but do use rear surrounds and so there's a 7+4 mode that uses the rear channels of 13.1 soundtracks instead). They said they make the drivers available for D&M to distribute. D&M chooses NOT to distribute them to older models to force you to buy a whole new hardware unit for $10 worth of software changes. My opinion is "F" D&M. I won't make the mistake of buying another one of their receivers again when they're so greedy that they can't pass on a simple codec update, even with a charge to upgrade it. I'd rather pay $100 to upgrade the codecs, than $2500 for a new receiver ($1100 for the previous year model when the dealers dump them).

There is ZERO chance anything older than this or possibly last year's models (meaning 2021 models) other than maybe the 8500 and Marantz equivalent would get a codec upgrade option to something new like Sony 360.

 

[BJMarsh]

Hardware wars rev. Z.

 

[fredblue]

Talk about going back in time. It doesn't even have a center-channel speaker to lock dialog in place for more than one person.... It must use virtualization for overhead sounds since the speakers have no upward firing drivers and there are only 4 speakers. No sub. It looks a bit like Apple Ear Bud equivalents (the old ones) for a living room (i.e. JUNK). Maybe it's FREE with purchase of a Sony TV?



Upgrades? D&M doesn't do upgrades (save the 8500 and maybe if you have this year's model). Their idea of a software upgrade is you buying a new receiver. It's sad, but it's largely true.

I asked Auro Technologies recently if they could get an update to Auro-3D to D&M for older models so it could use the 7+4 mode with 13.1 soundtracks (i.e. Most people don't use CH/VOG but do use rear surrounds and so there's a 7+4 mode that uses the rear channels of 13.1 soundtracks instead). They said they make the drivers available for D&M to distribute. D&M chooses NOT to distribute them to older models to force you to buy a whole new hardware unit for $10 worth of software changes. My opinion is "F" D&M. I won't make the mistake of buying another one of their receivers again when they're so greedy that they can't pass on a simple codec update, even with a charge to upgrade it. I'd rather pay $100 to upgrade the codecs, than $2500 for a new receiver ($1100 for the previous year model when the dealers dump them).

There is ZERO chance anything older than this or possibly last year's models (meaning 2021 models) other than maybe the 8500 and Marantz equivalent would get a codec upgrade option to something new like Sony 360.

it does all look a bit ****** i agree but tbh i'm more interested in the possibility of the little unit with its HDMI In and Out maybe being a breakout box to add 360 Reality Audio decoding to an AVR..?

 

[MagnumX]

it does all look a bit ****** i agree but tbh i'm more interested in the possibility of the little unit with its HDMI In and Out maybe being a breakout box to add 360 Reality Audio decoding to an AVR..?

I'm wondering if the PS5 (or any other hardware that has a Sony app for music) could just TRANSLATE the signal to Atmos or DTS:X, even if it required a licensing fee to do so (would still beat having to buy new hardware). If a Sony app shows up for AppleTV, I'd imagine that's the best hope for an Atmos conversion since that's the ONLY immersive format Apple supports.

 

[CINERAMAX]

Talk about going back in time. It doesn't even have a center-channel speaker to lock dialog in place for more than one person.... It must use virtualization for overhead sounds since the speakers have no upward firing drivers and there are only 4 speakers. No sub. It looks a bit like Apple Ear Bud equivalents (the old ones) for a living room (i.e. JUNK). Maybe it's FREE with purchase of a Sony TV?



Upgrades? D&M doesn't do upgrades (save the 8500 and maybe if you have this year's model). Their idea of a software upgrade is you buying a new receiver. It's sad, but it's largely true.

I asked Auro Technologies recently if they could get an update to Auro-3D to D&M for older models so it could use the 7+4 mode with 13.1 soundtracks (i.e. Most people don't use CH/VOG but do use rear surrounds and so there's a 7+4 mode that uses the rear channels of 13.1 soundtracks instead). They said they make the drivers available for D&M to distribute. D&M chooses NOT to distribute them to older models to force you to buy a whole new hardware unit for $10 worth of software changes. My opinion is "F" D&M. I won't make the mistake of buying another one of their receivers again when they're so greedy that they can't pass on a simple codec update, even with a charge to upgrade it. I'd rather pay $100 to upgrade the codecs, than $2500 for a new receiver ($1100 for the previous year model when the dealers dump them).

There is ZERO chance anything older than this or possibly last year's models (meaning 2021 models) other than maybe the 8500 and Marantz equivalent would get a codec upgrade option to something new like Sony 360.

PUTTING FLAME SUITS ON You guys in this forum own $30,000 Multichannel Music Collections, have no compulsion on dropping $300 on a Box set just to get the BD in 5.1 but have problems investing $2,200 on a full-featured receiver. Priorities Lol Just Kidding.

 

[MagnumX]

PUTTING FLAME SUITS ON You guys in this forum own $30,000 Multichannel Music Collections, have no compulsion on dropping $300 on a Box set just to get the BD in 5.1 but have problems investing $2,200 on a full-featured receiver. Priorities Lol Just Kidding.

Yeah, I don't buy $300 box sets nor do I own $30k music collections. I already have a $2200 receiver. That's the point. A new one should be unnecessary where a simple firmware update will do, but it's D&M. I'll just buy an Xbox 360 next time, that's all (that does support Atmos and DTS:X). Meanwhile, Neural X suffices (for gaming).

Now I have spent way too much on movie props and collectible lighters (odd since I don't smoke) like the 1936 model from Sam Spade's desk in the Maltese Falcon shown in my Avatar.

 

[DuncanS]

Ones music collection should always be worth more than ones system! Its only there to listen to the music after all!

 

[dabl]

This gives me hope that Denon Marantz's upgrades cannot be too far behind.

I don't think Denon Marantz upgrades are the problem, maybe player software that can talk to the already capable gear?

Sound United added MPEG-H to Denon & Marantz AVRs back in late 2020 but only for European models.

I've yet to hear from any European users including pro atmos mixers who've been able to actually play any Sony 360 material in real surround though.

 

[junh1024]

It doesn't even have a center-channel speaker to lock dialog in place for more than one person...

"When connected with the supplied cable to a BRAVIA TVs, the TV speaker plays the centre channel role in your Home Theatre System"

It may be possible to use your own speakers with ASC, idk.

It must use virtualization for overhead sounds since the speakers have no upward firing drivers and there are only 4 speakers.

HT-A9 does have upfiring. It's an attractive solution for small/casual spaces

 

[fredblue]

"When connected with the supplied cable to a BRAVIA TVs, the TV speaker plays the centre channel role in your Home Theatre System"

It may be possible to use your own speakers with ASC, idk.



HT-A9 does have upfiring. It's an attractive solution for small/casual spaces

'casual' being the operative word maybe.. seeing how many of the 360RA offerings use Quad mixes as their base, the lack of a dedicated Centre speaker that's timbre matched to the other 4 speakers isn't the problem i have with this system, i'm more perturbed about it having 4 small speakers with no subwoofer and a subwoofer only being an optional extra.

i can't see how tiny speakers could do justice to the majority of CBS Quad mixes, many of which require full-range speakers for all 4 channels.

i can see where they were going with it for sure, the concept is smart and does in a way simplify the whole thing.. i am tempted to sample the system just in case i'm totally wrong and i still feel that HDMI i/o box that comes with the system may just enable old AVRs to decode 360RA.. interesting times ahead for sure!

 

[junh1024]

i'm more perturbed about it having 4 small speakers with no subwoofer and a subwoofer only being an optional extra.

i can't see how tiny speakers could do justice to the majority of CBS Quad mixes, many of which require full-range speakers for all 4 channels.

i can see where they were going with it for sure, the concept is smart and does in a way simplify the whole thing.. i am tempted to sample the system just in case i'm totally wrong and i still feel that HDMI i/o box that comes with the system may just enable old AVRs to decode 360RA.. interesting times ahead for sure!

It's a 2-way speaker w/ bass duct. The woofers are about 6.5x9cm. It should sound reasonable, like a (good) soundbar. I'd also like to hear it IRL.

 

[JonUrban]

I am close to getting an Atmos receiver, but I am very concerned about the supply chain, the chip shortage, and the prospect of all of these new 5.1 streaming options and the very good possibility that the NEXT generation of receivers will have all of that 5.1 streaming designed into them. I would hate to spend $2K on a receiver and find out 6 months later that the 2022 models are on the horizon and they have all of the crap one might hope to get in a firmware update already in there as part of the new machines.

Like I posted earlier, I already have a few old obsolete and perfectly good Denon receivers sitting on the floor in closets. I am really not too keen on adding a few more to the pile

 

[ArmyOfQuad]

I sent an inquiry to Marantz about mpeg-h, and the article about firmware updates being pushed out for certain models (I have an SR7013, the article referenced SR7015) - and this was the reply I got:

"the only models listed there are 2020 receiver models and the reason for this is that they are the only ones with the hardware necessary to support this new audio format.

A firmware update did come out for the SR7015 and the other models listed, to allow it to support mpeg-h. But since older units like the SR7013 do not have the necessary hardware, a firmware update for them was not able to be written."


It's a bit soon to know where this is going as far as receiver support and functionality.....but the current response implies anyone that bought a receiver older than the 2020 line up, is out of luck when it comes to this. I don't buy it for one second that the receiver doesn't have the "necessary hardware".

 

[JonUrban]

I'm with you Jonathan. The days of every house having a 'stereo' in the living/family room are long gone, so these companies have a much smaller pool of customers to sell to. It makes no business sense to upgrade already purchased receivers when they can instead sell new ones to the same people they sold the old ones to.

 

[humprof]

I suspect Amazon, Apple, et al. would rather continue to force consumers to buy their own outboard devices than license the technology to be built into AVRs. But I could be wrong.

As for MPEG-H: can the circuitry really be that expensive? I don't understand why it's been restricted to high-end receivers so far, except that it's been a format with extremely limited consumer interest. If the signal processing could be handled solely on the software side, then I'd be content with a plugin for Foobar (or Kodi, or whatever). But I'm guessing the receiver to which the signal is sent would still have to be "MPEG-H compatible." Can any of the knowledgeable engineers here clarify?

 

[DuncanS]

I suspect Amazon, Apple, et al. would rather continue to force consumers to buy their own outboard devices than license the technology to be built into AVRs. But I could be wrong.

As for MPEG-H: can the circuitry really be that expensive? I don't understand why it's been restricted to high-end receivers so far, except that it's been a format with extremely limited consumer interest. If the signal processing could be handled solely on the software side, then I'd be content with a plugin for Foobar (or Kodi, or whatever). But I'm guessing the receiver to which the signal is sent would still have to be "MPEG-H compatible." Can any of the knowledgeable engineers here clarify?

MPEG-H shouldn't require expensive hardware/chips, but it would require a fair amount of processing to implement if its full video & '3D audio' as specified, hence more expensive than the 'normal' devices, but I wonder if there is a royalty payment to use it akin to HDMI.