Van Morrison "Moondance" (Standalone Blu-Ray with Steven Wilson Dolby Atmos mix coming in December!)

[sjcorne]

In another post on this thread, it was stated that the sax in THESE DREAMS OF YOU is heard in the overhead front speakers ...... in the recording studio was the sax player located in the ceiling?

Were all the horn players crammed in the back right corner of the room when they recorded it? Probably not, but that's where they are in Scheiner's 5.1 mix.

If all surround music mixes emulated where the players were actually standing in a studio setup (assuming all the instruments were even tracked at the same time), this hobby wouldn't be very exciting.

 

[4-earredwonder]

An interesting article on Moondance:

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/van-morrison-moondance/

 

[rorysk1]

Wilson remixing Van's catalouge (well, at least from Astral Weeks up to Enlightenment) in surround and getting physical releases would be pretty close to audio nirvana for me. I hope that's what Wilson means in that post by "Lots more on the way..."

This is one situation where I hope the artist involved has no control over such releases, given how grumpy Van is, and how he hates record companies (as he keeps telling us in his songs).

Elliot Scheiner has done some of the best 5.1 mixes out there, and since he was the original engineer, why wouldn’t the label want Elliot to do the Atmos mix ?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Elliot Scheiner has done some of the best 5.1 mixes out there, and since he was the original engineer, why wouldn’t the label want Elliot to do the Atmos mix ?

Elliot announced his retirement a few years ago although he does take on occasional 'pet' projects and if Warner wanted an ATMOS remix then I don't think Mr. Scheiner does ATMOS!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Hate to sound like a 'spoil sport' but sometimes LESS is MORE. In the early 00's way before Atmos, Scheiner once remarked in an interview that he felt 5.1 was MORE than sufficient for music. In another post on this thread, it was stated that the sax in THESE DREAMS OF YOU is heard in the overhead front speakers ...... in the recording studio was the sax player located in the ceiling? ATMOS, I'm sure is wonderful for electronic music and/or densely populated recordings but I never thought of Van the Man ever imagining that one of his greatest achievements would incorporate overhead elements which might disrupt the flow of his musical genius. As stated, SW would like his ATMOS remixes of CHIC to be eventually released on physical disc. IMO, CHIC in ATMOS just might be a marriage made in heaven .... and also Donna Summers, another favorite artist of Mr Wilson would be ideal for ATMOS.

In many respects, I agree with you. We have traded realism for glitz. Discrete placement in the heights sometimes works, sometimes not so much. But when it's done well, it doesn't ruin the experience at all. And it doesn't call attention to itself. It's a mixed bag for me.

 

[sjcorne]

What makes having instruments appear above you any less realistic than having them behind you? The best mixes in any format always took some liberties with realism, to me that's half the fun of it.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Lack of realism isn't my issue with streaming Atmos Moondance.
Lack of cohesion, or a satisfying immersive image, maybe.

 

[sjcorne]

Guess I'm the odd man out on this one, but I think he did a great job distributing the various instruments & voices throughout the expanded soundstage while also carrying over each element's relative L-C-R position from the original stereo mix. I hear the rhythm section in front of me, vocal in the center (but pulled out a bit further into the room on some tracks), acoustics floating just beside me, piano, organ and/or backing vocals further behind me (sometimes lifted into the heights), and horns + ambience raining down from above.

It's not a radical improvement over the old 5.1 mix in the same way that the Grateful Dead's American Beauty was, but I give it the edge nonetheless. I do hope WEA has more work for him...

 

[Methuselah’s Grandpa]

Just playing Devil’s advocate here but in my opinion, instruments playing from the ceiling is a little less realistic than instruments playing behind you. You can take a recording like Bela Fleck’s 5.1 DVDA where each musician basically has their own dedicated channel, ….when I listen to that album it reminds me of some Bluegrass parties I went to where I was literally surrounded by several instruments.

That being said, even stereo is technically unrealistic. Take a back-&-forth panning guitar, …is Jimmy Page jumping left to right?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

What makes having instruments appear above you any less realistic than having them behind you? The best mixes in any format always took some liberties with realism, to me that's half the fun of it.

I guess in my mind, I can more easily imagine sitting in the center of a group of musicians and it seems realistic enough. Discrete instruments coming from above is harder to imagine for me. Like, is there a balcony in the studio? It can sometimes seem out of place and distracting, but like I said, sometimes it works. It works for effects very well (the thunder in Roger Waters Us+Them concert video). It can work for multi tracked backing vocals (Rocket Man, Petty GH). It works for synth washes (Rush) and a lot of techno music. I think the greatest benefit may be the perspective of height given to the base channels (the Harrison releases).

Neither approach is true to the live event, far from it. But as long as you enjoy what you hear.... Does it matter?

 

[sjcorne]

But as long as you enjoy what you hear.... Does it matter?

Absolutely, there is no clear "right" or "wrong" to any of this. I guess I've come to think of the height speakers as just another place to extend the arrangement and unpack more instrumentation. That said, I've heard a number of Atmos mixes that sound good despite there being minimal use of the heights (Lyle Lovett's 12th Of June, for example).

 

[WozzaDog]

I guess in my mind, I can more easily imagine sitting in the center of a group of musicians and it seems realistic enough. Discrete instruments coming from above is harder to imagine for me. Like, is there a balcony in the studio? It can sometimes seem out of place and distracting, but like I said, sometimes it works. It works for effects very well (the thunder in Roger Waters Us+Them concert video). It can work for multi tracked backing vocals (Rocket Man, Petty GH). It works for synth washes (Rush) and a lot of techno music. I think the greatest benefit may be the perspective of height given to the base channels (the Harrison releases).

Neither approach is true to the live event, far from it. But as long as you enjoy what you hear.... Does it matter?

I’m not looking for a realistic experience live, I want the let’s f&@k with your head on a mind trip lol. Hollow-deck experience hehe.

 

[WozzaDog]

The recording reminds me of the Harvest Atmos mix. I really like the These Dreams of You Mix. It’s times like this I’m so glad I have large speakers all round.

 

[himey]

I want the let’s f&@k with your head on a mind trip

Depends on the genre for me.

 

[Ephi82]

What I like about this mix is what I like about all great multi channel mixes.

It’s the ability to hear each musical element distinctly, and quite clearly in its own space, while still retaining the familiarity of the original stereo mix.

5.1/7.1 mixing technology is a pretty good way to do this, placing musical elements in a room, in 5 or 7 places.

ATMOS supercharges this by giving the room a ceiling and the mixer now has the ability to place up to 118 musical elements anywhere in a virtual 3D space.

 

[humprof]

@sjcorne's review at IAA:
https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/van-morrison-moondance-dolby-atmos/

 

[edisonbaggins]

What I like about this mix is what I like about all great multi channel mixes.

It’s the ability to hear each musical element distinctly, and quite clearly in its own space, while still retaining the familiarity of the original stereo mix.

5.1/7.1 mixing technology is a pretty good way to do this, placing musical elements in a room, in 5 or 7 places.

ATMOS supercharges this by giving the room a ceiling and the mixer now has the ability to place up to 118 musical elements anywhere in a virtual 3D space.

I wish I could agree with you and Jonathan, but this streaming Atmos mix sounds like a mess, to me. Should be called a "steaming" Atmos mix!
It lacks the familiarity with the original that Scheiner nailed. And his 5.1 mix has plenty of separation, to my taste.

 

[sjcorne]

…this streaming Atmos mix sounds like a mess, to me.

What did you think of the Grateful Dead ones?

 

[edisonbaggins]

What did you think of the Grateful Dead ones?

Haven't heard them! That is a great reminder.
No chance they'll receive a physical release?

 

[himey]

What did you think of the Grateful Dead ones?

I don't get the connection?