Why is everyone so jazzed about ATMOS?

[Bender]

I read a review of the new Amazon Echo Studio showcasing Atmos. One of the two songs they demoed was Rocketman. Made me wonder if the "thousands of songs to Atmos" might mostly be converting existing 5.1 mixes....if so, what about "Bitch is Back" and those unreleased Eltons? I would love for Dolby to set those free from whatever prison they are in. btw... Seeds of Love would make some good showcase too!

 

[EricKalet]

I should have been clearer. What I mean is: What comes out when you feed a straight stereo source into Atmos? Does it spread the signal around the room like DPLIIx, L7 or Involve Surround Master? Or does it not recognize the signal as anything but stereo?

It's not discrete, and not object based, but the algorithms like dts X, Auro, etc do a decent job of giving you "faux" multichannel or immersive. Better to select dts X or Auro than 7 channel stereo. I don't think you can send a 2 ch. source and have it output utilizing Atmos algorithms.

 

[CINERAMAX]

True Universal Atmos Releases are quite underwhelming, but there is always Kraftwerk 3D Tour De France is a very convincing case for ATMOS to succeed, some techniques from filmmaking will be required to convert old quad masters to atmos. The Moog is the ultimate instrument to have to take flight overhead and about the room via ATMOS.

 

[Elad]

I don't have any feelings about Atmos either positive or negative. I have usually upgraded to whatever came out throughout my musical listening experience for me one of those worthwhile items was Oppo which I could play just about everything even Atmos now if I wanted but decided not at this time. I am perfectly happy with what I have now it sounds great and for me I am more than okay with that.

 

[dobyblue]

I should have been clearer. What I mean is: What comes out when you feed a straight stereo source into Atmos? Does it spread the signal around the room like DPLIIx, L7 or Involve Surround Master? Or does it not recognize the signal as anything but stereo?

I don't know how much effort Dolby put into their 2.0 > multi algorithms with Atmos but typically I have found when using PLIIx and Neo:6 the vast majority of stuff I listen to doesn't sound as good as listening in stereo, so the vast majority of the time I stil to PURE DIRECT mode for digital stereo streaming. Since I have moved to 5.2.4 with Atmos I have found the exact opposite, now MUCH of the stereo material I'm listening to sounds very good in Atmos and more like a natural surround mix than I've found previously. Listening to the stunning track "Pneuma" from Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum, there is a middle section where the bass starts with the main root riff and Danny Carey is adding some synth-based stuff on top and I swear it sounds like a discrete multichannel mix. So again, I don't know whethere they've worked on 2.0 upmixing much or not but to my ears it sounds like they have drastically improved it.

It's still something I will experiment a little with but these days I am enjoying 2.0 upmixing much more than I used to when I was at 5.1 using PLII and Neo.

 

[César]

I don't know how much effort Dolby put into their 2.0 > multi algorithms with Atmos but typically I have found when using PLIIx and Neo:6 the vast majority of stuff I listen to doesn't sound as good as listening in stereo, so the vast majority of the time I stil to PURE DIRECT mode for digital stereo streaming. Since I have moved to 5.2.4 with Atmos I have found the exact opposite, now MUCH of the stereo material I'm listening to sounds very good in Atmos and more like a natural surround mix than I've found previously. Listening to the stunning track "Pneuma" from Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum, there is a middle section where the bass starts with the main root riff and Danny Carey is adding some synth-based stuff on top and I swear it sounds like a discrete multichannel mix. So again, I don't know whethere they've worked on 2.0 upmixing much or not but to my ears it sounds like they have drastically improved it.

It's still something I will experiment a little with but these days I am enjoying 2.0 upmixing much more than I used to when I was at 5.1

I fully second your thoughts. I rarely used any of the upmixers until I moved to Atmos. I posted on a different thread my thoughts about how good Fear Inoculum upmixes. I'm listening right now to the new Zee mix and there are some moments where I'm fooled and my head moves to a particular speaker because of a discreet element in the upmix.

 

[Beefalo]

Atmos question:
Does anyone know the frequency range that are routed to the 4 heights on Atmos playback. I have Klipsch and they are pretty small. I cross them over at 200hz just to play it safe at high volume.
Am I missing out on some of the effects by having them crossed over so high ???

 

[Beefalo]

I don't know how much effort Dolby put into their 2.0 > multi algorithms with Atmos but typically I have found when using PLIIx and Neo:6 the vast majority of stuff I listen to doesn't sound as good as listening in stereo, so the vast majority of the time I stil to PURE DIRECT mode for digital stereo streaming. Since I have moved to 5.2.4 with Atmos I have found the exact opposite, now MUCH of the stereo material I'm listening to sounds very good in Atmos and more like a natural surround mix than I've found previously. Listening to the stunning track "Pneuma" from Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum, there is a middle section where the bass starts with the main root riff and Danny Carey is adding some synth-based stuff on top and I swear it sounds like a discrete multichannel mix. So again, I don't know whethere they've worked on 2.0 upmixing much or not but to my ears it sounds like they have drastically improved it.

It's still something I will experiment a little with but these days I am enjoying 2.0 upmixing much more than I used to when I was at 5.1 using PLII and Neo.

I listen to all stereo through the dsp on my Yamaha.
Generally the "Dolby surround" is best. It centers the vocals and everything else stays in stereo with very minor effects from the surrounds. Old records sound great this way too. It widens the soundstage nicely.

 

[humprof]

I don't know how much effort Dolby put into their 2.0 > multi algorithms with Atmos but typically I have found when using PLIIx and Neo:6 the vast majority of stuff I listen to doesn't sound as good as listening in stereo, so the vast majority of the time I stil to PURE DIRECT mode for digital stereo streaming. Since I have moved to 5.2.4 with Atmos I have found the exact opposite, now MUCH of the stereo material I'm listening to sounds very good in Atmos and more like a natural surround mix than I've found previously. Listening to the stunning track "Pneuma" from Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum, there is a middle section where the bass starts with the main root riff and Danny Carey is adding some synth-based stuff on top and I swear it sounds like a discrete multichannel mix. So again, I don't know whethere they've worked on 2.0 upmixing much or not but to my ears it sounds like they have drastically improved it.

It's still something I will experiment a little with but these days I am enjoying 2.0 upmixing much more than I used to when I was at 5.1 using PLII and Neo.

Same experience as you, @dobyblue, although I often give a slight edge to Neural:X. There are also still some albums that sound better to my ears in "All Channel Stereo"--in part because there are cases where the stereo mix is really crisp and well defined, and both Atmos & Neural:X "soften" some of the details; and in part because I'm prejudiced against center-channel vocals, which is where Atmos & Neural:X tend to place them.

My problem now with All Channel Stereo, though, is that after adding overhead speakers, it's too loud as compared to other listening modes. Unfortunately, Marantz tech support confirmed that it's not possible to "preset" the overhead levels to zero for a specific mode, so I have to manually lower them every time I select ACS.

 

[CINERAMAX]

Atmos question:
Does anyone know the frequency range that are routed to the 4 heights on Atmos playback. I have Klipsch and they are pretty small. I cross them over at 200hz just to play it safe at high volume.
Am I missing out on some of the effects by having them crossed over so high ???

In movies there are several studios that do not downmix the theater tracks for home atmos. Sony, Warner, Paramount, Lionsgate and MGM.

In Music audio thusfar UNIVERSAL is not placing much info on the tops, Kraftwerk 3D does.

Al my top speakers go down to 40, I strive for that in my installations see coaxial quested 12" plus AMT.

A bit of overkill I know.

Long Story short there is a wonderful universe of content with concussive multichannel directional bass that is thwarted by standard bass management. 200 is ridiculously high, 60 should be the minimum to appreciate directional multichannel bass.

 

[Hamilton59]

Atmos question:
Does anyone know the frequency range that are routed to the 4 heights on Atmos playback. I have Klipsch and they are pretty small. I cross them over at 200hz just to play it safe at high volume.
Am I missing out on some of the effects by having them crossed over so high ???

Hi,
I think there are a couple of things to consider about your height speakers crossover settings. You and I both have Klipsch Atmos speakers. They make a few different models and it depends on how you have them configured.

You may have them placed so they are firing up and reflecting the sound off of the ceiling and back down to the listeners. This type of setup uses a very specialized internal notched crossover setup that helps trick our ears into thinking the sound is coming from above our heads! It also doesn’t pass low bass frequencies and is limited to 180-200 Hz if I recall correctly.

The larger Klipsch RP-500SA speakers have a switch that will add/remove the specialized notch crossover to allow them to be mounted as “full range” height speakers firing down to the listeners.

If your system uses a speaker setup / room correction system like Audyssey, you can check the measured crossover frequency the system detected/setup for your heights. My Marantz has measured and set the crossover to 80 Hz for my RP-500SA height speakers that are mounted up on the ceiling firing downwards.

So I think you could let the AVR setup results be your guide for your height speakers. If they were measured and set as full range speakers, I would set them up to crossover at the typical 80Hz range. If they are setup with a higher frequency, I would leave them set there. In general, there isn’t a lot of sound sent to the height speakers so I don’t worry about over driving them....unless maybe if you are choosing the all channel stereo mode, that was mentioned above, in which case you may want to set the crossovers higher to remove some of the strong bass energy.

Just my opinion...

David H

 

[Beefalo]

In movies there are several studios that do not downmix the theater tracks for home atmos. Sony, Warner, Paramount, Lionsgate and MGM.

In Music audio thusfar UNIVERSAL is not placing much info on the tops, Kraftwerk 3D does.

Al my top speakers go down to 40, I strive for that in my installations see coaxial quested 12" plus AMT.

A bit of overkill I know.

Long Story short there is a wonderful universe of content with concussive multichannel directional bass that is thwarted by standard bass management. 200 is ridiculously high, 60 should be the minimum to appreciate directional multichannel bass.

Thanks for the info. I don't think there is such a thing as "over kill" when it comes to audio. Perfect is always something better than you have now.
I'm jealous !!!

 

[Beefalo]

Hi,
I think there are a couple of things to consider about your height speakers crossover settings. You and I both have Klipsch Atmos speakers. They make a few different models and it depends on how you have them configured.

You may have them placed so they are firing up and reflecting the sound off of the ceiling and back down to the listeners. This type of setup uses a very specialized internal notched crossover setup that helps trick our ears into thinking the sound is coming from above our heads! It also doesn’t pass low bass frequencies and is limited to 180-200 Hz if I recall correctly.

The larger Klipsch RP-500SA speakers have a switch that will add/remove the specialized notch crossover to allow them to be mounted as “full range” height speakers firing down to the listeners.

If your system uses a speaker setup / room correction system like Audyssey, you can check the measured crossover frequency the system detected/setup for your heights. My Marantz has measured and set the crossover to 80 Hz for my RP-500SA height speakers that are mounted up on the ceiling firing downwards.

So I think you could let the AVR setup results be your guide for your height speakers. If they were measured and set as full range speakers, I would set them up to crossover at the typical 80Hz range. If they are setup with a higher frequency, I would leave them set there. In general, there isn’t a lot of sound sent to the height speakers so I don’t worry about over driving them....unless maybe if you are choosing the all channel stereo mode, that was mentioned above, in which case you may want to set the crossovers higher to remove some of the strong bass energy.

Just my opinion...

David H

Good advice..thanks. I checked and I have the smaller RPA-140SA (4 inch). No switch. I don't ever use the 9 channel stereo so it's probably OK to cross them over at 100 ?

 

[Hamilton59]

Good advice..thanks. I checked and I have the smaller RPA-140SA (4 inch). No switch. I don't ever use the 9 channel stereo so it's probably OK to cross them over at 100 ?

Ok, I did a quick search and found a couple relevant things... The Klipsch manual for your speakers show using a crossover of 150 Hz when connecting it with a full range floor speaker. http://assets.klipsch.com/product-manuals/Reference-Premiere-Speakers-Manual.pdf

The speakers are rated at 50 W RMS / 200 W Peak. I’d hesitate to set the crossover lower lower than 150 Hz especially if you like to listen to ATMOS content at very loud levels...

Here’s a great looking thread concerning exactly your question on the Klipsch Audio Community forum...

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/168732-rp-140sa-crossover-setting/
Jam on!
David H

 

[ar surround]

We got Disney+ several weeks ago. Many titles are in Atmos. That might influence my decision to convert. I have the extra speakers and would need to add a modest Atmos equipped AVR to do the conversion.

 

[Beefalo]

Ok, I did a quick search and found a couple relevant things... The Klipsch manual for your speakers show using a crossover of 150 Hz when connecting it with a full range floor speaker. http://assets.klipsch.com/product-manuals/Reference-Premiere-Speakers-Manual.pdf

The speakers are rated at 50 W RMS / 200 W Peak. I’d hesitate to set the crossover lower lower than 150 Hz especially if you like to listen to ATMOS content at very loud levels...

Here’s a great looking thread concerning exactly your question on the Klipsch Audio Community forum...

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/168732-rp-140sa-crossover-setting/
Jam on!
David H

Thank you for researching this. I guess I didn't read the manual thoroughly.
I have to go back to what CINERAMAX stated in his earlier post. "Directional multichannel bass"
This sounds very intriguing. I assume it would be more of a mid bass response as low bass is considered non directional. With the proper set up and source material I think this would really add alot to the Atmos experience.
I have the Kraftwerk Atmos but I wasn't really impressed with it. I'm going to experiment with a lower crossover point at moderate volume.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I have the Kraftwerk Atmos but I wasn't really impressed with it.

 

[quicksrt]

I’m waiting for some good new ATMOS mixes of classic material like Steely Dan, Supertramp, or Little Feat, etc. directly from original multitracks, so I’ll likely be waiting for eternity.

 

[mrcond]

I’m waiting for some good new ATMOS mixes of classic material like Steely Dan, Supertramp, or Little Feat, etc. directly from original multitracks, so I’ll likely be waiting for eternity.

3 bands I would LOVE to hear in surround.

 

[mlrocker]

this Echo speaker does Atmos according to the info blurb

Amazon Echo Studio at Best Buy