HiRez Poll Wilson, Steven - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray Audio]

[sukothai]

The two 5.1 waveforms (decoded DTS-MA and PCM) should be bit by bit identical, but slightly differ.

The two wav files came out bit identical for me using AudioMuxer. Also, processing the wav files with foobar 2000 DRM (Dynamic Range Meter) showed they both have the identical dynamic range and headroom. Here's the results from DRM:

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-03-01 16:27:49


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 01-The Raven That Refused To Sing
Number of samples: 315075584
Duration: 54:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


......................Channel 1.......Channel 2.......Channel 3.......Channel 4.......Channel 5.......Channel 6

Peak Value:.......-0.10 dB........-0.10 dB.........-3.02 dB.........-2.54 dB.........-0.10 dB.........-0.10 dB
Avg RMS:........-16.25 dB.......-16.21 dB.......-21.27 dB.......-24.24 dB.......-18.95 dB.......-18.73 dB
DR channel:......12.14 dB.........11.93 dB........12.52 dB........15.35 dB.........14.19 dB........13.73 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Official DR Value: DR13


Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 7025 kbps
Codec: WAV
================================================================================

 

[sukothai]

I'll add - if you are interested in what the output of the DRM means, you can read about it at the Pleasure Music Foundation

Any DR value above 12 is considered very high quality (meaning minimal compression and other dynamic range processing.)

 

[baphomet]

what devil magic does SW have that he can create something that expresses the heights and depths of the human experience through music and so well?

the surround version of this album is brilliant and despite the musical form (even modern prog can sometimes come off as dated), this album did not come off that way at all...it's timeless..expertly executed both musically and sonically ...I would have gladly paid twice what I did for the experience.

 

[sukothai]

I'll add - if you are interested in what the output of the DRM means, you can read about it at the Pleasure Music Foundation

Any DR value above 12 is considered very high quality (meaning minimal compression and other dynamic range processing.)

Adding more ... not that the numbers mean much of anything other than to confirm mathematically the streams are identical, but it is nice when the numbers confirm what you already know to be true. This album is a beautiful experience.

 

[zfox]

...other than to confirm mathematically the streams are identical...

Using foobar2000 v1.2.3, Audiomuxer v0.9.4.8, ArcSoft DTS-MA decoder v1.1.0.7.

PCM replaygain analysis.



DTS-MA replaygain analysis.



Mathematically identical (sample-by-sample) audio files will produce the same checksum when scanned properly. The above images show that a minor post-processing took place that I hope is inaudible.

 

[sukothai]

Using foobar2000 v1.2.3, Audiomuxer v0.9.4.8, ArcSoft DTS-MA decoder v1.1.0.7.

With ArcSoft DTS decoder v1.1.0.8 the DTS-MA ReplayGain Scan comes out identical to the PCM scan. My foobar2000 and Audiomuxer versions are the same as yours.

/Ben

 

[zfox]

I produced the correct results. Previously, I was highlighting for extraction the lossy (core) part of the stream.

 

[sukothai]

I produced the correct results. Previously, I was highlighting for extraction the lossy (core) part of the stream.

Ahh - that explains it.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

The DTS 5.1 version of this album is simply astonishing and, imho, sets a new benchmark against which 5.1 mixes should be judged. So much depth, clarity, dynamic range, attention to detail and finesse.

 

[DKA]

It's starting to get redundant to grade Wilson mixes, as they're always as technically flawless as can be. Not blown away (yet) by the album thus far. Sounds less like a solo Wilson project and more like PT with the 70's elements turned up. I'm sure it will grow on me.

Otherwise? 10, of course. Hard to find anything wrong with this. Still the only guy who gets it.

 

[patrick1]

Hey, I've played this so many times over the past week. It took me a few plays to "get it." Soooooooooooooo good! I got the Blu-Ray for the DTS-MA, fine, but with Mettler's review in Sound and Vision stating the DTS 96/24 was the way to go...................now I'm A/B-ing the sh#% out of it. The 96/24 is quite a bit smoother in the bass department, especially the opening salvos in Luminol (thus I can turn the volume knob up on my AVR to aquire the same Db level vs. the DTS-MA). But then I feel I'm missing out on some of the quieter dynamics in the mix from the DTS-MA signal. BUT THEN IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO? The acoustic break at the end of Drive Home (my favorite track, with that sick extended guitar solo at the end!) is certainly more pronounced and in my face via 96/24. I will carry on with this "experiment." Any anyone feel free to chime in and inform me of my aural illness! BTW, I just ordered the Deluxe Edition. $73.00 delivered. I'm bummed that I didn't see any information in regards to the short stories that are included in the set or else I would've had that from the get-go. Oh well. Thanks.

 

[paligap]

I like this one more than Grace for Drowning, which I also gave a ten. The mix and visuals are stunning. There is a unifying, but not contrived, concept. At least from my first few listens, I'm getting less of that detached vibe. The pathos just oozes from my speakers. My only complaint is that it doesn't have the animated video of the title song that I've seen online. I tried to explain the story to my wife while the song was playing, and while she loved the song, it would have been even better if she could have seen the video at the same time. I know, I know--the music stands on its own, and we don't need video to accompany it. I just think this one is an exception: It was so well done and complemented the music so well.

Finally, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but a six? Really?

 

[patrick1]

Hey, So.......with this Blu-Ray release, and any others for that matter, can anyone (Neil W.!?!?!??) offer any insight as to why I should or shouldn't perceive that the DTS-HD Master Audio should sound better than the "regular", in this case, DTS 96/24? I've been A/B-ing this disc til the cows come home, and KINDA think the DTS-MA is a bump better sounding as a whole. I mentoined before the acoustic break at the end of "Drive Home" as a section with a clear difference, sound-wise. Hellllllllpppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks. OK, Sombody shoot me!

 

[user 1679]

Finally, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but a six? Really?

Well, I think I can understand it, and it could very well end up being my score as well. My copy of the deluxe set arrived while I was away (or course!) and I'm just giving it the first pass now - the 5.1 MA Blu-ray that is, I've heard the 2.0 mix several times already. My score on the mix and sound quality will no doubt be very high if not the perfect 10 - it's the content that I'm having difficulty with...most of the music just does not do anything for me unfortunately. I've been buying his stuff - PT, BF, IEM, no-man, BC, solo, etc for ages and have flowed along with all the different styles pretty much always enjoying the ride, but GfD was a disappointment for me and my first impressions of this one are even worse.

Having said all that, I need to play the 5.1 a few times, get to know the tracks a bit more (even though I've heard them all several times in 2.0 already)...maybe my opinion will change and I'll not officially vote until then. But my initial score is "10" for mix and sonics, "4" for the music itself. That comes out "6" for me as the music content matters more than overall sound/mix in my books.

 

[paligap]

Well, I think I can understand it, and it could very well end up being my score as well. My copy of the deluxe set arrived while I was away (or course!) and I'm just giving it the first pass now - the 5.1 MA Blu-ray that is, I've heard the 2.0 mix several times already. My score on the mix and sound quality will no doubt be very high if not the perfect 10 - it's the content that I'm having difficulty with...most of the music just does not do anything for me unfortunately. I've been buying his stuff - PT, BF, IEM, no-man, BC, solo, etc for ages and have flowed along with all the different styles pretty much always enjoying the ride, but GfD was a disappointment for me and my first impressions of this one are even worse.

Having said all that, I need to play the 5.1 a few times, get to know the tracks a bit more (even though I've heard them all several times in 2.0 already)...maybe my opinion will change and I'll not officially vote until then. But my initial score is "10" for mix and sonics, "4" for the music itself. That comes out "6" for me as the music content matters more than overall sound/mix in my books.

As I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and at least you explained yours. These ratings are obviously subjective, and we apparently apply different weights to our criteria. I use the same weight for surround, fidelity, and content. I have rated several releases highly, even though I didn't enjoy the content as much as I have non-surround releases, but that's just my approach. I enjoyed the content on Storm Corrosion and Grace for Drowning much less, but I still rated them highly because of the other criteria. I find it interesting that neither of those releases scored below a seven, even though the content on them is, in my opinion, much less accessible than this one.

 

[JonUrban]

For those who are interested, it looks like Amoeba Music has the deluxe set in stock currently at $65.98. I haven't received it so can't confirm that it's correct but the price seems to be in line with Burning Shed. I might have ordered once from AM in the past but can't recall quality of shipping packaging etc. I'm seeing this on the bay at upwards of $177 US.

A BIG THANKS to Cibola! Taking the info from his post, I ordered the deluxe set from Amoeba and it arrived today. Wow! Well worth the $65. It's beautiful. The book and stories are amazing, and it's nice to read through the stories and look at the pictures AFTER I've heard the music and know the songs. If you like this album and have the $65, you should really grab this while you can. If the eBay profiteers are the only remaining source for these in the future, the loss will be yours.

The Deluxe Edition only solidifies my '10' vote.

 

[Ge Someone]

I got the Blu-Ray for the DTS-MA, fine, but with Mettler's review in Sound and Vision stating the DTS 96/24 was the way to go...................now I'm A/B-ing the sh#% out of it. The 96/24 is quite a bit smoother in the bass department, [..]. But then I feel I'm missing out on some of the quieter dynamics in the mix from the DTS-MA signal. BUT THEN IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO?

I think there is. The .1 (sub or LFE) channel on the DTS 96/24 track of the DVD-V is correctly lowpassed, but the same channel on the BD is not. It contains a full range signal, so depending how your playback system handles that, it may sound different in the bass, drum and low synthesizer departments.
IMO this is a mistake somewhere in the BluRay authoring workflow, or arguably at the finishing of the 5.1 mix.

 

[JonUrban]

I think there is. The .1 (sub or LFE) channel on the DTS 96/24 track of the DVD-V is correctly lowpassed, but the same channel on the BD is not. It contains a full range signal, so depending how your playback system handles that, it may sound different in the bass, drum and low synthesizer departments.
IMO this is a mistake somewhere in the BluRay authoring workflow, or arguably at the finishing of the 5.1 mix.

I noticed this as well when I made a DVD-A for the car. I ripped the non-DTS track thinking it would be the best source. When I had the files open in Sound Forge, I saw that the LFE looked like a "real" wav file. If I get a chance I'll post a jpg of it. The Acura does a fine job with it as is, but I never tried it at home, as I have the Blu-Ray for that. Quite frankly, I've listened to it a lot more in the car than at home. I find the quiet time in the car on the road a perfect place to do undisurbed listening.

 

[peterzach]

I noticed this as well when I made a DVD-A for the car. I ripped the non-DTS track thinking it would be the best source. When I had the files open in Sound Forge, I saw that the LFE looked like a "real" wav file. If I get a chance I'll post a jpg of it. The Acura does a fine job with it as is, but I never tried it at home, as I have the Blu-Ray for that. Quite frankly, I've listened to it a lot more in the car than at home. I find the quiet time in the car on the road a perfect place to do undisurbed listening.

Agree with you 100% Jon, cars and surround music are a perfect match, now I just wish i knew how to make Dvda's out of Bluray's etc.

The Raven is a great album no matter what format you listen to it in.

 

[georgeshannon]

... now I just wish i knew how to make Dvda's out of Bluray's etc...

Same here. Maybe we could coax Jon into listing a few steps on how to extract the music from a blu-ray.