Steven Wilson (for Steven Wilson:) remixes that don't replicate original mix effects

ssully said:

This is really a question for Steven Wilson, but since there's no direct thread for that any more....I'm sticking it here. Maybe someone can point him to it --

There are two tracks on albums SW has remixed that had very prominent speed/pitch effects as part of their original 'sound'. These are:

- 'Big Top' from King Crimson's Lizard -the circus tune increases in pitch and speed every time it repeats, even as it fades out
- 'Knife Edge' from ELP's self-titled debut album -- the track ends with the sound of the tape slowing down to a halt.

Neither of these effects are replicated on the remixes. I'd like to understand why. I believe these effects could be replicated pretty easily, digitally. (I think I could even do it with Audition 1.0. which is hardly new, cutting edge audio editing technology. I'll probably take a stab at both of the 2.0 remixes and see if it works.)

But in the meantime I'd be curious to hear why SW thought they shouldn't or couldn't be replicated in his remixes.

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ChristopherLees said:

between a 5.1 SW remix, a DKA upmix and a BSS bonus track I can feel a new special edition coming on..

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Ed Bishop said:

Sometimes we don't always get exactly what we expect in 5.1, but with MC, I don't think it's sensible to always expect simply an 'expansion' of the original mix. Sometimes things are just going to be different.

ED

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Ed Bishop said:

The history of pop music in multichannel is rife with some major differences between what you remember in stereo and what was done for 4.0 or 5.1, beyond alt. takes and the like. Unless something is really, really radically different, though, I don't tend to bother much over things. "Knife-Edge" without the original ending isn't any worse than, say, "Gold Dust Woman" fading in or not.

One classic example of the difficulty in replicating such a thing, though, goes back to a 1966 single by Paul Revere & The Raiders, "The Great Airplane Strike." The mono 45 has that kind of ending where it slows to a stop; on the original mono and stereo Lp appearances, though, it simply faded out. Decades later, a remix was attempted, as I remember, but like the ending of the Monkees' "Pleasant Valley Sunday," it was just about impossible to get it the way the original single sounded. Happens.

Sometimes we don't always get exactly what we expect in 5.1, but with MC, I don't think it's sensible to always expect simply an 'expansion' of the original mix. Sometimes things are just going to be different.

ED

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wavelength said:

Sure Ed, that's all great but I think what we are really hoping for in this thread is for SW to answer the OP.

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Ed Bishop said:

I'm as curious as anyone about exactly what happened with certain aspects of the remixes, but really, Mr. Wilson isn't obligated to explain himself beyond what he has already said on the matter. Personally, I'm impressed when any of the pros bother to turn up to discuss aspects of their work on a board such as this, since they can hardly be blamed for being wary when it comes to fanatics (which some of us are) obsessed (often to absurd degrees) with perfection and exactitude when we know that the past tells us that any form of remixing is not likely to be 'just like the original' and we shouldn't expect it to be.

Further, this is just pop/rock music; nothing life and death about it. If Steve wants to chime in here or somewhere else on the board and expand further on why he made the decisions he did, fine, but I'm not holding my breath for that, and wouldn't blame him one bit if he ignored the lot of us. I'm just happy that, once in a while, we still get any MC discs at all, given the industry's general disdain and disinterest in such things. He is, you might say, a beacon in the foggy darkness, and I for one would not presume to *demand* that he tell us anything, which is occasionally the tone I'm reading around here, as if he has some sort of obligation to explain himself.

ED

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Q-Eight said:

Might be more of a 'Damned if you Do - Damned if you Dont' kind of situation.

If they attempt to replicate the original and aren't exact, people are gonna pick it apart.

If they don't attempt to replicate the original, people are gonna pick it apart.

So, if either way results in the same uh..... result, then why bother if that's just what's going to happen?

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ssully said:

well, here's my shot at 'Knife Edge' -- took all of 30 minutes, mainly because I had to determine the length of the altered segment and try a few different DSP settings. I ultimately used Adobe Audition 1.0's 'Pitch Bender' tool, specifically its 'turntable slowing down' effect

This is just the ending of the track, converted to Redbook, from the 2 channel 48/24 remix. It could use some echo to better match the original mix, but again, this was pretty quick and dirty.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26057348/Knife-Edge_bent_ending.flac

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Philip Spinner said:

I think it's great to have the original ending without the slow down in 5.1. Now I have both. Thanks Steven.
Phil.

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ssully said:

well, here's my shot at 'Knife Edge' -- took all of 30 minutes, mainly because I had to determine the length of the altered segment and try a few different DSP settings. I ultimately used Adobe Audition 1.0's 'Pitch Bender' tool, specifically its 'turntable slowing down' effect

This is just the ending of the track, converted to Redbook, from the 2 channel 48/24 remix. It could use some echo to better match the original mix, but again, this was pretty quick and dirty.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26057348/Knife-Edge_bent_ending.flac

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fredblue said:

I'd rather have some new stuff (or even old stuff!) we've never heard in surround before..!!

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