(2024-12) The Return of VHS (& Dolby Surround?)

[GilWave]

And I pulled mine OUT of storage and started to play them.

If it’s a movie, there’s an excellent chance that it’s been re-released in a modern, hi-def format, so maybe those are charity donations. Had a bunch, and they have been replaced if I actually wanted to watch the movie again.

But being the colllector of obscurity that I am, as noted above, I have a decent pile of very good musical performances that don’t seem to have been made available on the smaller discs. Of course, I have no idea what’s in your pile, but putting them in storage benefits nobody. And, given the fact that we reallyndidn’t know how to bond the layers together, they can deteriorate. It was called “laser rot,” but it was really delamination and the resultant oxidation of the aluminum layer with the pits. I found a couple of mine had large dark areas near the edge.

Good point re: delamination.

The last time I set up my LaserDisc player (then-top of the line Pioneer Elite) was when I bought my LG 65" OLED TV. I was excited to watch my Star Wars CAV laser disc. I found the stupid add-on box to go to 5.1 audio out. Hit 'play and then... 480 resolution! A little box inside the huge HDTV display.

I can't believe I didn't even consider LD resolution when I went to all the trouble to re-incorporate the LD player into my home theatre set up.

I packed everything up and put it all away, thinking 'at some point' I'd buy a Sony XBR 32" CRT TV used or pick one up at an estate/garage sale, and set up a VHS and LaserDisc playback system in the guest room for when the grandkids come to stay. I have A LOT of movies, concerts, and TV shows on those old formats.

I fear that my eventual great-grandkids will accompany their parents and grandparents to clean out all this crap when I'm dead

 

[4-earredwonder]

Good point re: delamination.

The last time I set up my LaserDisc player (then-top of the line Pioneer Elite) was when I bought my LG 65" OLED TV. I was excited to watch my Star Wars CAV laser disc. I found the stupid add-on box to go to 5.1 audio out. Hit 'play and then... 480 resolution! A little box inside the huge HDTV display.

I can't believe I didn't even consider LD resolution when I went to all the trouble to re-incorporate the LD player into my home theatre set up.

I packed everything up and put it all away, thinking 'at some point' I'd buy a Sony XBR 32" CRT TV used or pick one up at an estate/garage sale, and set up a VHS and LaserDisc playback system in the guest room for when the grandkids come to stay. I have A LOT of movies, concerts, and TV shows on those old formats.

I fear that my eventual great-grandkids will accompany their parents and grandparents to clean out all this crap when I'm dead

YEP ... those LD Behemoths only put out 480p lines of resolution on those large platters. I recall when discrete Dolby Digital was announced I had my THETA LD player retrofitted at a cost of over $1K! And for about $1500 I added the OPPO 205 [all region] to my current arsenal which is an amazing upgrade and plays just about everything in all the latest audio codecs [and of course 3D]

Time certainly MARCHED on!

 

[4-earredwonder]

And to think that the very first VHS VCRs offering only lo fi and MONO
upon release were priced at $1K. And those first pre~recorded VHS tapes were priced at $100 in pan and scan versions and Monaural sound!

$1K in today's dollars has probably doubled and for what .....

Anyone who complains about the price of today's hardware and even software should only look a few years into the past to realize that today's players, software, OLED TVs represent a bargain compared to the late 70's, 80's and 90's. UHD4K discs with Dolby ATMOS can be had for as little as 10 bucks!

My STAR WARS Japanese pressed laserdisc boxed set set me back over $100 ..... 425 lines of resolution ... LOL! May the FARCE with with you!

 

[Sonik Wiz]

RE: LD's and tape....
Once upon a time nearby there was a great hi-fi stereo store called Accent Sound. They carried nice range of medium to high end gear. They also had a great selection of LD's to rent or buy. On a Saturday morning before opening at 10, there would already be a few people at the door waiting to get in & nab something to watch for the weekend. Myself I would rent in bulk, maybe 5 or 6, take home & copy to S-VHS. It as just slightly degraded from the disc & since LD was the high bar for video back then it looked better than just acceptable. I still have dozens of those tapes and a working S-VHS deck but I would never watch those if I had easy access to a better version.

The last time I plyed a tape was pre-pandemic when a friend came over for a Blade Runner marathon. We started off with the retail VHS of the 1982 movie, sampled a bit, moved on to the Laserdisc version, sampled a bit, and then watched all of it again on 1080P Blu-ray. The generational improvements were amazing. Oh and then we followed up with Blade Runner 2049 1080p Blu-ray that looked and sounded even better. More likekly because of improvements at the production end.

 

[GilWave]

YEP ... those LD Behemoths only put out 480p lines of resolution on those large platters. I recall when discrete Dolby Digital was announced I had my THETA LD player retrofitted at a cost of over $1K! And for about $1500 I added the OPPO 205 [all region] to my current arsenal which is an amazing upgrade and plays just about everything in all the latest audio codecs [and of course 3D]

Time certainly MARCHED on!

I can't tell you how many times I misplaced that Dolby AC-3 add-on box. What a PITA. I think I paid $299 for it back in the day.

I bought an Oppo 203 all-region a few years back, and absolutely love it, especially since it'll play the few SACDs I have. Sad to think it is the last BluRay player I'll ever buy, since Oppo ceased production.

 

[4-earredwonder]

RE: LD's and tape....
Once upon a time nearby there was a great hi-fi stereo store called Accent Sound. They carried nice range of medium to high end gear. They also had a great selection of LD's to rent or buy. On a Saturday morning before opening at 10, there would already be a few people at the door waiting to get in & nab something to watch for the weekend. Myself I would rent in bulk, maybe 5 or 6, take home & copy to S-VHS. It as just slightly degraded from the disc & since LD was the high bar for video back then it looked better than just acceptable. I still have dozens of those tapes and a working S-VHS deck but I would never watch those if I had easy access to a better version.

The last time I plyed a tape was pre-pandemic when a friend came over for a Blade Runner marathon. We started off with the retail VHS of the 1982 movie, sampled a bit, moved on to the Laserdisc version, sampled a bit, and then watched all of it again on 1080P Blu-ray. The generational improvements were amazing. Oh and then we followed up with Blade Runner 2049 1080p Blu-ray that looked and sounded even better. More likekly because of improvements at the production end.

And LOOKY SW....Blade Runner THE FINAL CUT in Native UHD4K is now available for a little over 20 bucks with a re purposed Dolby ATMOS soundtrack and I've seen it sell for as little as $12.99 during Amazon sale periods

 

[kfbkfb]

Re: Accent Sound & LDs:

I may be partially responsible for Accent Sound getting into renting and selling LDs.

I stopped in to their Johnson Dr. location in mid-1985 and saw the NAD brand LD+CD player (Pioneer CLD-900 clone, I had just bought a CLD-900 in 1985-04), talking with the sales people, I mentioned there were hundreds of LD titles available, a few with the newly added CD format stereo PCM sound.

I took them a Pioneer Video catalog on Black Friday 1985, when I stopped in in 1986, they had a fair selection of LDs.

After they moved to off Metcalf, I ordered a few LDs from Accent Sound - a Tina Turner concert video LD & the Buddy Rich SQ encoded LD.

I rarely rented LDs, even though Moss Magnavox (in the Blue Ridge Mall), an early DiscoVision supporter, had a large selection of LDs for rent and sale.

My M.O. for buying movies - rent the VHS, if I really liked the movie, buy the LD.


Kirk Bayne

 

[4-earredwonder]

Re: Accent Sound & LDs:

I may be partially responsible for Accent Sound getting into renting and selling LDs.

I stopped in to their Johnson Dr. location in mid-1985 and saw the NAD brand LD+CD player (Pioneer CLD-900 clone, I had just bought a CLD-900 in 1985-04), talking with the sales people, I mentioned there were hundreds of LD titles available, a few with the newly added CD format stereo PCM sound.

I took them a Pioneer Video catalog on Black Friday 1985, when I stopped in in 1986, they had a fair selection of LDs.

After they moved to off Metcalf, I ordered a few LDs from Accent Sound - a Tina Turner concert video LD & the Buddy Rich SQ encoded LD.

I rarely rented LDs, even though Moss Magnavox (in the Blue Ridge Mall), an early DiscoVision supporter, had a large selection of LDs for rent and sale.

My M.O. for buying movies - rent the VHS, if I really liked the movie, buy the LD.


Kirk Bayne

I USED TO RENT LDs FROM AN AUDIO/VIDEO STORE IN GREENWICH, CT FOR ABOUT $5 EACH AND I RECALL SOME HAD PEANUT BUTTER/JELLY SMEARED ACROSS THE DISCS ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION! LOL!

 

[jamoke]

I USED TO RENT LDs FROM AN AUDIO/VIDEO STORE IN GREENWICH, CT FOR ABOUT $5 EACH AND I RECALL SOME HAD PEANUT BUTTER/JELLY SMEARED ACROSS THE DISCS ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION! LOL!

Back in my military days I used to repair HiFi and AV equip for the oversea community, seen some strange things in VCR's.
Lego's, PBJ sandwiches, and ABC gum, were some of the memorable items.

 

[barfle]

My Pioneer ELITE Laserdisc player stopped working years ago. The drawer refused to open and even if it did the image quality compared to today's BD and 4K formats is dismal.

As for the hundreds upon hundreds of discs I still have in shelves in my dehumidified basement ... I just consider them relics of the past and I'm sure any DISCOVISION discs I have pressed from that era all have 'laser rot!'

I also have a THETA DIGITAL LD player and haven't fired that up in years either. Both players weigh a veritable ton and it's amazing how even a tiny SONY X800 4K Universal player weighing only a few pounds can out perform those giant behemoths at a fraction of their original cost on a 5" disc!!!!!!!!!

I only have a couple of discs that show blemishes in the aluminum layer, so that "laser rot" probably isn't as big a deal as you might fear. Yes, they are analog, NTSC or PAL resolution, and the quality is visibly poorer than any digital set we have today, but that doesn't mean the performance is shit. Of course, I don't know your collection, but you might be surprised at how good they look and sound.

 

[4-earredwonder]

And how can we forget CBS Labs CX noise reduction for Vinyl LPs and also utilized on laserdiscs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CX_(noise_reduction)

Trivia: the first laserdisc pressed utilizing CX encoding was Olivia Newton John's PHYSICAL from Pioneer

 

[barfle]

Good point re: delamination.

The last time I set up my LaserDisc player (then-top of the line Pioneer Elite) was when I bought my LG 65" OLED TV. I was excited to watch my Star Wars CAV laser disc. I found the stupid add-on box to go to 5.1 audio out. Hit 'play and then... 480 resolution! A little box inside the huge HDTV display.

I can't believe I didn't even consider LD resolution when I went to all the trouble to re-incorporate the LD player into my home theatre set up.

I packed everything up and put it all away, thinking 'at some point' I'd buy a Sony XBR 32" CRT TV used or pick one up at an estate/garage sale, and set up a VHS and LaserDisc playback system in the guest room for when the grandkids come to stay. I have A LOT of movies, concerts, and TV shows on those old formats.

I fear that my eventual great-grandkids will accompany their parents and grandparents to clean out all this crap when I'm dead

My laser discs (except for the "letterboxed" one) fill my LG screen top-to-bottom, with bars on the sides. I have a "zoom" control on my TV that will enlarge letterboxed analog pictures to full-screen, but, yeah, they look like crap. I actually have a couple of DVDs with the same issue - letterboxed. I imagine I can replace them with BDs, since they are movies, but I'm already deep in the hole on "stuff I oughta watch/listen to."

Besides a fairly large collection of DVDs and my laser discs, I also have a Motorola Teleplayer that outputs NTSC. You can look that one up if you care. I don't believe it was ever commercially released, but I thought the technology was so cool that I've collected three, two of them being for parts. As I've noted, there are plenty of historic programs that were shot with TV cameras, so they'll never look 4K, but they are still good watches.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://bluray.highdefdigest.com/3801/twilightzone_1960_s2.html

Upconverting NTSC videotape to HDTV has been done for the Twilight Zone Blu-rays, I don't know of other cases.


Re: Videotape Hi-Fi - it's really too bad that more wasn't done to mitigate the "head switching noise" in the FM based videotape Hi-Fi audio system, I did read an article or 2 in, IIRC, the AES journal about efforts to smooth over the FM carrier gap prior to the FM signal being fed to the FM decoder.


Kirk Bayne

 

[barfle]

https://bluray.highdefdigest.com/3801/twilightzone_1960_s2.html

Upconverting NTSC videotape to HDTV has been done for the Twilight Zone Blu-rays, I don't know of other cases.


Re: Videotape Hi-Fi - it's really too bad that more wasn't done to mitigate the "head switching noise" in the FM based videotape Hi-Fi audio system, I did read an article or 2 in, IIRC, the AES journal about efforts to smooth over the FM carrier gap prior to the FM signal being fed to the FM decoder.


Kirk Bayne

IIRC, there were only two Twilight Zone episodes shot on video - “Night of the Meek” and one about a used car that made the owner unable to lie. The rest were, as with many prime-time TV shows, shot on 35mm film.

I don’t recall any issue with VHS hi-fi head switching. The tape wrap was over 180 degrees, and during recording, the heads were energized all the time, so during playback, there was no “gap.” I certainly never noticed any issues with my tapes. Did anyone else?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Re: Accent Sound & LDs:

I may be partially responsible for Accent Sound getting into renting and selling LDs.

I stopped in to their Johnson Dr. location in mid-1985 and saw the NAD brand LD+CD player (Pioneer CLD-900 clone, I had just bought a CLD-900 in 1985-04), talking with the sales people, I mentioned there were hundreds of LD titles available, a few with the newly added CD format stereo PCM sound.

I took them a Pioneer Video catalog on Black Friday 1985, when I stopped in in 1986, they had a fair selection of LDs.

After they moved to off Metcalf, I ordered a few LDs from Accent Sound - a Tina Turner concert video LD & the Buddy Rich SQ encoded LD.

I rarely rented LDs, even though Moss Magnavox (in the Blue Ridge Mall), an early DiscoVision supporter, had a large selection of LDs for rent and sale.

My M.O. for buying movies - rent the VHS, if I really liked the movie, buy the LD.


Kirk Bayne

Great story. I bet you did have some influence on their decision to stock LD's. A smart move to get quality oriented consumers who were willing to pay a bit more for it into the shop. I bought my Pioneer DVL-700 (still running!) from there. I never visited the Johnson Drive store but drove by it many times. Interestingly I now live within a few blocks of the old location.

I can;'t help but think we've randomly crossed paths some time in the past. Peaches, Brands Mart, Beatty, Accent...

 

[kfbkfb]

I was kinda surprised that Accent Sound did get so heavily involved with LDs, high end video was in its infancy in 1985/86.

The last time I was over to Accent Sound (1989-07), it was because they were having a day to meet with Pioneer Video reps, I had seen the analog HDTV "LD" at the WCES in Las Vegas (1989-01) and I was interested to know if Pioneer planned to offer HD-LD in the USA.

I recall seeing several bins full of LDs.

I think the audio industry thought that the LD+CD combo player + PCM digital audio on LDs would be the spark to make LDs more mainstream, IIRC, Luxman, NAD, Sansui, TEAC all sold clones of the Pioneer CLD-900.


Kirk Bayne

 

[kfbkfb]

I don’t recall any issue with VHS hi-fi head switching. The tape wrap was over 180 degrees, and during recording, the heads were energized all the time, so during playback, there was no “gap.” I certainly never noticed any issues with my tapes. Did anyone else?

Recording a frequency sweep will reveal the switching noise, it afflicts Beta, VHS, 8mm Hi-Fi, here's some more info:

https://stason.org/TULARC/entertain...sound-perfect-Is-Beta-Hi-Fi-sound-perfec.html


Kirk Bayne

 

[Sal1950]

I USED TO RENT LDs FROM AN AUDIO/VIDEO STORE IN GREENWICH, CT FOR ABOUT $5 EACH AND I RECALL SOME HAD PEANUT BUTTER/JELLY SMEARED ACROSS THE DISCS ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION! LOL!

That's what happens when you rent cartoons.

Back in the day I was very tempted to jump into the LD market but the prices for both the hardware and software were too steep for my wallet. Very glad now I held off. I was thrilled when DVD came out and the video tape rental stores got on board.
Todays 4k BD's on my 85" Samsung are just amazing. Even just 5 years back I never would have believed I could have and afford this kind of video quality for this little money.

I don’t recall any issue with VHS hi-fi head switching. The tape wrap was over 180 degrees, and during recording, the heads were energized all the time, so during playback, there was no “gap.” I certainly never noticed any issues with my tapes. Did anyone else?

I didn't

 

[MidiMagic]

And LOOKY SW....Blade Runner THE FINAL CUT in Native UHD4K is now available for a little over 20 bucks with a re purposed Dolby ATMOS soundtrack and I've seen it sell for as little as $12.99 during Amazon sale periods

Which music does it have?

 

[audiomaster]

I came to realize that I now have more media than I could possibly watch/listen to even if I spent 12 hours a day for the rest of my life doing so. (I'm 66)

Yet I keep buying more. Is there an Audioholics Anonymous? I need a 12-step program.

It's a 12 Db program and you have to go thru "equalization"! And possibly "decoding"?