All 9 Steely Dan albums to be released on Hybrid Stereo SACD courtesy of Analogue Productions

[stoopid]

No new mixes, here, just new masterings of the original mixes.

Thanks, it's an important detail and I changed my post.

 

[ssully]

The Katy Lied story is indeed quite bizarre. I find it hard to understand exactly what is wrong with exactly what generation of audio.
The multitracks are mentioned three times in this archived article by Danny Dias ( red and nunderloned)

problem with the first mixdowns using dbx

Mixing was an absolute nightmare. Every song was mixed at least twice, and not because we were being fussy. In fact, we had mixed the entire record before we realized that there was a problem. We were using the new dbx noise reduction system, which was supposed to give us a better signal to noise ratio than Dolby, and for some reason the dbx units could no longer decode the mixes on tape. They sounded dull and lifeless and no one could explain why. After all, all of the equipment had been properly aligned for each session. This was especially puzzling since each mix was played back immediately upon completion. How could the sound deteriorate so quickly? Even if there had been some awful mistake it couldn't have happened the same way twice and certainly not more than twice.

so, mix in Dolby instead (the multis still sound good!)

Several of us formed a contingent to storm dbx headquarters. We packed up the tapes and the dbx units and Gary and Roger (and one or two others) boarded a plane to the East Coast. They confronted dbx and discovered that no one could fix it or explain it. The people at dbx built us a special pair of units with adjusting knobs that could alter the settings that are normally sealed inside at the factory. This too was a miserable failure. Could the tapes have been exposed to gamma rays? Why didn't any one else using that studio have a problem? And why only the two track mixes? The two-inch 24-track masters were still sounding good, so we decided to re-mix the entire record using Dolby.

but problem crops up again, on one track; oh and btw, the multis are dbx-encoded too! Problem fixed by cleaning tape head (which is destroying the multis!):

Something happened during the re-mix of "Doctor Wu" that scared the hell out of us. I mentioned that we were impressed with the performance of Phil Woods, so you can imagine how we felt when his saxophone suddenly sounded dull and lifeless! This required immediate investigation. The 24-track master was encoded with dbx so there was big tension while Roger did some troubleshooting. When he cleaned the heads on the tape machine the sound cleared up for a while. Then it got dull again. It seems that the tape head developed an irregularity on track 17 and was scraping bits of oxide off the tape! We decided to keep working on the mix, but we would avoid playing any part of the tape containing that saxophone. When everything else was ready, Roger cleaned the head once more and we recorded the mix on 2-track tape.

Problems cutting the record 'direct from the original [2-track] master tapes' to vinyl:

I remember the first time we brought it to Allen Zentz's mastering facility it became obvious that there were things on the tape that couldn't be transferred to vinyl. Roger said, "I'm getting out of here" and left before we knew what the problem was. Apparently, his use of condenser microphones in close proximity to the cymbals required too much acceleration for the needle to track.

But wait, it's a problem with the 24-track multis after all:

At this point it might be a good idea to read the back cover of the original record. There are some comments about bandwidth and transient response that should have new meaning now. However, the music is still on the tape and the tape is well preserved. The sound of the digital CD version on "Citizen" is better than any vinyl by far. It's interesting that after all these years there is finally a released version that sounds good.

The 24-track master tapes may not be doing as well. There is a song called "Mister Sam" that didn't make it onto "Katy Lied". The track was good and Donald recorded a very nice lead vocal performance so, when we began recording the next record, we thought that perhaps we could include "Mister Sam". When we placed the two-inch master tape on the 24-track machine it sounded dull and lifeless and could not be used at all. No one wanted to check the other master tapes, but I am certain that (to paraphrase the lyric) "Mister Sam" don't sound so good no more.

If anyone has untangled this garble, let me know.

It sounds like the problem was with the dbx multis---except when it wasn't.

 

[humprof]

In his recent interview with @sjcorne, Scheiner averred that Nichols used dbx on the multitrack master. But then again, Scheiner wasn't directly involved with that recording, and it's not clear he ever got around to hearing the multis for all of the albums firsthand, back when UMG was intending for him to remix them in 5.1. And when Jonathan asked him about the possibility of somehow "fix[ing] the issue in the digital domain," he replied only: "I have no idea, and I’m not sure I’d want to get into that." So...again, no clarity.

There was some discussion here on QQ soon after that about whether the early (prototype?) dbx unit that they used on KL would actually have been designed for use on two-inch multis or only on stereo masters, but I don't think that question was resolved, either, and I haven't succeeded in finding the thread.

 

[ssully]

This longtime SH forum member and seemingly a pro audio guy, has corrections to Dias's story.

He says the multies were definitely NOT dbx encoded.

But he also seem to ignore that Dias (whose stories he calles 'way out') said they did a Dolby (not dbx) remix. This would have been either the second or third remix of the album.

Yeah, this whole thing is a clusterf*ck of old men and their memories.

 

[ssully]

But Roger Nichols himself sems to confirm some of Denny Dias's story --at least as far as there being a remix after flight to dbx headquarters and an attempt to fix with a bespoke dbx unit. He doesn's say Dolby but Hoffman's forum has a picture of a master reel box from Kendun which has DOlby (but not DBX) checked off.



The problem,, say Nichols, is that while they were recording (the *multis* it seems) as well as mixing, there was a set of conditions --RF interference from an AM station nearby, plus a ground loop! -- that somehow (he does not say how!) affected or 'set' the dbx curves in the units. But some time between the final day of mixdown, and the first day of listening to the mix, those conditions went away /were fixed (he does not say how!) and that meant the curves used for recording/mixing could no longer be decoded (he doesn't say how!). The trip to DBX INc was to see if they could find a way to recover/recognize those original curves during playback but no luck. So they flew back to LA and remixed, (presumably using Dolby not dbx?) , but DBX artifacts (apparently on the *multis*?) like a piano chord reverb tail that gets louder instead of softer, remained, and had to be dealt with 'manually' so to speak. But I guess they weren't fully fixed because he says if you listen to the album you still hear the reverse reverb on that piano chord?

I don't know. I never really loved this SD album anyway.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

The Katy Lied story is indeed quite bizarre. I find it hard to understand exactly what is wrong with exactly what generation of audio.
The multitracks are mentioned three times in this archived article by Danny Dias ( red and nunderloned)

problem with the first mixdowns using dbx


so, mix in Dolby instead (the multis still sound good!)


but problem crops up again, on one track; oh and btw, the multis are dbx-encoded too! Problem fixed by cleaning tape head (which is destroying the multis!):


Problems cutting the record 'direct from the original [2-track] master tapes' to vinyl:


But wait, it's a problem with the 24-track multis after all:



If anyone has untangled this garble, let me know.

It sounds like the problem was with the dbx multis---except when it wasn't.

Cocaine and cocaine accessories.