ALL TESTS ON THE SURROUND MASTER

[chucky3042]

The actual answer is probably that it doesn't much matter. All the equipment you mentioned is late model and good quality so however you hook it up it's gonna sound great. The surround master has a DSP unit in it that is very good (Analog Devices Sharc I think , ) and the Exasound is about as good as it gets. Your pdf is of a McIntosh and I don't think there would be any complaints about the sound of that either.

You are running up against one of the big problems with multichannelism. The lack of versatile preamp/processors with flexible and sufficient input switching quantity. The MX122 at least has one single RCA mch input.

What you could do is get two of these:
https://www.amazon.com/CIMPLE-CO-Selector-Composite-Switcher/dp/B07C15XGQN/ref=sr_1_20?crid=DYX30F7VIUXB&keywords=switch+box+video&qid=1672708639&s=electronics&sprefix=switch+box+video,electronics,136&sr=1-20&th=1

and put them between the Exa and the SM on the inputs and the MX 122 on the output. You will have to push two buttons to switch between them.
I have one of these and there is no difference at all between the audio and video channels except the color of the RCA receptacles. This is not elegant but will allow you to have the best of both worlds without having to rassle with cables. There are also some solutions from folks like Zektor and others that will work maybe even better but this would cost $40 to try out.

http://www.laaudiofile.com/mas71.html

Actually 2 Texas TAS3204's

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/t...=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fproduct%2FTAS3204

 

[ar surround]

Yep, I liked the review but I dunno where the "mid fi" comment came from as by any tests it really is tip top fi. I suppose if the price tag is around 1 k it is deemed to be mid fi.

Up the price to US$ 8000, then it will be deemed to be "hi fi." LOL The Surround Master is most definitely is a high fidelity component. Some purists only consider as hi-fi those components which do nothing to the signal path and are all analog in the entire signal chain. Like one of these, for example:

 

[gene_stl]

Hey its got a horn spikker.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

The questions that must be answered in 2024:
Why does the Surround Master have so many pretty LED lights inside?

And...what happens if I flip all those DIP switches to the opposite position?

Hoping for a great New Year at Involve!

 

[Overture]

The questions that must be answered in 2024:
Why does the Surround Master have so many pretty LED lights inside?

And...what happens if I flip all those DIP switches to the opposite position?

Hoping for a great New Year at Involve!

Ahoy there!
We too are hoping for a great new year. This is a truism.
Meanwhile, the lights in the box have a few functions. A couple are for quickly seeing if the power supply stages are working as needed before busting out the multimeter, if one isn't working it's a good time to turn the power straight off again and hook it up to the test bench just in case the magic smoke is in danger of being released.
A few lights show the DSP reset circuitry is working properly.
5 of them show what is being done in each DSP - fronts being either 5.1 or quad mode, and if it's Involve/SQ/TSS.

The dipswitches - one set connects to the front switches but also to the programming header, they have to be disengaged to program the CPU but re-engaged during run-time so the front selector switch actually talks to the CPU, the others do the same job for isolating each of the algorithms from each other and the DSP during initial programming. Switching any of them around will stop either the CPU or DSPs from working at all.

So.....I mean, if you're sick of using the unit for audio and just want the light show, by all means flip the dips.
And by that I mean don't touch them.

~Captain D.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Ahoy there!
We too are hoping for a great new year. This is a truism.
Meanwhile, the lights in the box have a few functions. A couple are for quickly seeing if the power supply stages are working as needed before busting out the multimeter, if one isn't working it's a good time to turn the power straight off again and hook it up to the test bench just in case the magic smoke is in danger of being released.
A few lights show the DSP reset circuitry is working properly.
5 of them show what is being done in each DSP - fronts being either 5.1 or quad mode, and if it's Involve/SQ/TSS.

The dipswitches - one set connects to the front switches but also to the programming header, they have to be disengaged to program the CPU but re-engaged during run-time so the front selector switch actually talks to the CPU, the others do the same job for isolating each of the algorithms from each other and the DSP during initial programming. Switching any of them around will stop either the CPU or DSPs from working at all.

So.....I mean, if you're sick of using the unit for audio and just want the light show, by all means flip the dips.
And by that I mean don't touch them.

~Captain D.

Flip The Dips. This shall live on eternally.
So many thanks!

 

[audiomaster]

Question on the optional subwoofer board. How does it derive the sub signal? Does it sum all 4 channels? Seems that might result in some cancellations? Or just the fronts? What is the crossover freq and slope?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I've been called a dipshitch many times before; and I'm always on.

 

[jaybird100]

I have optical and RCA both hooked up. No issues that I'm aware of, so far.
Should there be?

I have both hooked up, too. I never use both at the same time, so there's really no conflict. My Pioneer CD/DVD player uses the optical input, and the tape output from my Denon AVR connects to the analog input of my SM. There's no issue with sound whatsoever.

 

[Overture]

Question on the optional subwoofer board. How does it derive the sub signal? Does it sum all 4 channels? Seems that might result in some cancellations? Or just the fronts? What is the crossover freq and slope?

Ahoy there,

In this case woofer out is a simple mono out derived from the stereo input, not the decoded signal.
It was really added to allow for the 0.1 portion that people sometimes like, particularly in 5.1. So yes, out of phase woof will likely be cancelled. Mind you, there is not a great deal of low frequency content in the rear stage of a circular matrix encode.

The (or our) preference in quad is to have four full range speakers so that it's not an issue - in the case of smaller speakers, my ideal situation would be a separate sub for each channel, so 4.4 output - not practical in a unit this size really, but the outputs are buffered so you should be able to split each output to a speaker and woofer if that's the route you want to take.

There is also the argument that it's difficult to directionalise bass below 300Hz, though in our tests we found it to be quite a bit lower. A lot of that will have to do with your room and placement anyway.

What I've found works particularly well at home and the office where space is a little limited, is to take the input signal before it goes into the decoder, and create stereo woofer outputs. I have four smaller ESL panels as the speakers and then two woofers at the front for left and right - that way the side LF content isn't affected by phase cancellation - at least not in the signal level. At the speaker / reproduction end of things, well that also comes down to your room and placement I guess.

Crossover output on the SM sub output is.......is....erm......hmm.......um........*shuffles papers*.....

I believe it's 80hz, which was chosen as it's a common 0.1 output from the AC3 days. I'll verify it when we're back in the office from the 15th.

~D

 

[jaybird100]

Ahoy there,

In this case woofer out is a simple mono out derived from the stereo input, not the decoded signal.
It was really added to allow for the 0.1 portion that people sometimes like, particularly in 5.1. So yes, out of phase woof will likely be cancelled. Mind you, there is not a great deal of low frequency content in the rear stage of a circular matrix encode.

The (or our) preference in quad is to have four full range speakers so that it's not an issue - in the case of smaller speakers, my ideal situation would be a separate sub for each channel, so 4.4 output - not practical in a unit this size really, but the outputs are buffered so you should be able to split each output to a speaker and woofer if that's the route you want to take.

There is also the argument that it's difficult to directionalise bass below 300Hz, though in our tests we found it to be quite a bit lower. A lot of that will have to do with your room and placement anyway.

What I've found works particularly well at home and the office where space is a little limited, is to take the input signal before it goes into the decoder, and create stereo woofer outputs. I have four smaller ESL panels as the speakers and then two woofers at the front for left and right - that way the side LF content isn't affected by phase cancellation - at least not in the signal level. At the speaker / reproduction end of things, well that also comes down to your room and placement I guess.

Crossover output on the SM sub output is.......is....erm......hmm.......um........*shuffles papers*.....

I believe it's 80hz, which was chosen as it's a common 0.1 output from the AC3 days. I'll verify it when we're back in the office from the 15th.

~D

Many subwoofers have phase controls, either a variable control, or a switch that selects 0 or 180 degrees.

 

[Overture]

Many subwoofers have phase controls, either a variable control, or a switch that selects 0 or 180 degrees.

Aye, my understanding is that adjusts the phase of the incoming signal so the output of the woofer is better phase-matched to your other equipment or to the listening position in the room, I don't think it affects the phase content relative between left and right inputs if you use stereo in? Happy to be proven wrong mind you.

 

[LB-V]

I believe it's 80hz

120, yes?

It's seems, feels and sounds like 120 compared to 80 to me. But of course, I'm a single unreliable data point. LOL

I'm probably stretching now, but I was under the impression @chucky3042 prefers the higher pass with enthusiasm. Not sure why I think so...

 

[audiomaster]

I am just trying to derive a sub feed from the line output of my Bose 4401 quad preamp to feed my Crown sub amp and my two 18 inch Gauss subs. My main spkrs are JBL 4313s and my rears are Dynaco A25s. I also have an alternate set of mains, a pair of Acoustic Research AR3as. So I think 80hz would be fine. Is there a passive circuit somewhere that can do that with minimal gain loss that I can make up with my Crown sub amp?
I like the Surround Master, but it doesn't do CD-4 which is most of my quad collection.

 

[par4ken]

I am just trying to derive a sub feed from the line output of my Bose 4401 quad preamp to feed my Crown sub amp and my two 18 inch Gauss subs. My main spkrs are JBL 4313s and my rears are Dynaco A25s. I also have an alternate set of mains, a pair of Acoustic Research AR3as. So I think 80hz would be fine. Is there a passive circuit somewhere that can do that with minimal gain loss that I can make up with my Crown sub amp?
I like the Surround Master, but it doesn't do CD-4 which is most of my quad collection.

How about this Harrison Labs FMOD Low-Pass Inline Subwoofer Crossover Electronic

 

[audiomaster]

Might try these. Cheap enough. Maybe Y each front channel to one of these and then another Y from both to the mono sub input on my Marantz 7013. Have to see if I lose separation on the front channels and what the signal loss is. I can make up the gain on the Crown sub amp if not too much.
Thanks.

 

[rustyandi]

I am just trying to derive a sub feed from the line output of my Bose 4401 quad preamp to feed my Crown sub amp and my two 18 inch Gauss subs. My main spkrs are JBL 4313s and my rears are Dynaco A25s. I also have an alternate set of mains, a pair of Acoustic Research AR3as. So I think 80hz would be fine. Is there a passive circuit somewhere that can do that with minimal gain loss that I can make up with my Crown sub amp?
I like the Surround Master, but it doesn't do CD-4 which is most of my quad collection.

I use the Surround Master for stereo all the time set to Involve. (QS)
as there is not a lot of good QS lps
before that I played stereo through the QSD 1 for nearly 40 years

 

[Overture]

Ahoy all,

We set the woofer out to 50Hz. This was a deliberate choice, as we found that bass is capable of being directionalised down to 35Hz in our own testing.

~D

 

[chucky3042]

Ahoy all,

We set the woofer out to 50Hz. This was a deliberate choice, as we found that bass is capable of being directionalised down to 35Hz in our own testing.

~D

And its a 12 dB per octave second order Butterworth, implemented in DSP

 

[chucky3042]

Dear All

I just thought I would add these thermal tests to this thread

Enjoy!