AP SACDs of Beach Boys Sunflower and Surf's Up are stereo/multichannel with 4.0 mixes

[Franklin]

I spoke via phone to Steven in the 90's regarding his Spatilizer.I commented on Quad and congratulated him on releasing the very first commercial quad popular record.No mention then that it was stereo 3d.

His name is spelled Stephen.

"Bob, honey, who was that on the 'phone?"
"I have no idea, baby, it was some enthusiastic guy who kept calling me Steven."

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Do you think the origional process on these two albums masters was intended for two, four, or either speaker setup? Maybe he was touting quad setup as a plan B.

No I don't, it was very much "indicative" (QUAD & the matrix-both)

Fun with spelling,

It's original, not origional.

 

[quadsearcher]

I just noticed that Mr. Stephen Desper has joined the forum and will probably speak to this issue when his membership email clears. I already boosted him to 11 posts so that he can bypass all of the anti-spam stuff so let's end the speculation and wait to hear from the guy who really knows what the deal is.

Welcome to the forum Mr. Desper![/QUOTE

Excellent! I wanted to join the SmileySmile forum, but it was kind of overwhelming. I have two questions, I would send a letter if I could.

 

[beerking]

I'm playing the 'STEREO' sacd version (2016) of Surfs Up .
Always one of my favourite Beach Boys LP's.
The question I have is this. The packaging says stereo, the release blurb says stereo , yet my system shows as DSD Multi 2.8MHZ/1bit. Er... confused.com
Can someone throw some light on what's really going on here, thanks.

 

[H.A.L.]

Cutting and pasting bmoura's definitive post on this Analogue Productions release:

"Sunflower and Surf's Up are Multichannel SACDs that include the decoded 4 Channel editions of all the songs that were encoded with the Desper system.

I'm surprised that most people have forgotten the reissue team's research on Matrix decoders when the remastered Beach Boys SACD series was first announced.
That led to speculation these two SACDs would feature a set of SACD Surround Sound tracks on the SACDs. They do!

Since the albums were encoded with the Desper system, I'm guessing the Stereo SACD tracks probably sound good decoded through the Involve Surround Master as well.
Worth trying for those of you who are Surround Master owners."

I'm playing the 'STEREO' sacd version (2016) of Surfs Up .
Always one of my favourite Beach Boys LP's.
The question I have is this. The packaging says stereo, the release blurb says stereo , yet my system shows as DSD Multi 2.8MHZ/1bit. Er... confused.com
Can someone throw some light on what's really going on here, thanks.

 

[beerking]

Cutting and pasting bmoura's definitive post on this Analogue Productions release:

"Sunflower and Surf's Up are Multichannel SACDs that include the decoded 4 Channel editions of all the songs that were encoded with the Desper system.

I'm surprised that most people have forgotten the reissue team's research on Matrix decoders when the remastered Beach Boys SACD series was first announced.
That led to speculation these two SACDs would feature a set of SACD Surround Sound tracks on the SACDs. They do!

Since the albums were encoded with the Desper system, I'm guessing the Stereo SACD tracks probably sound good decoded through the Involve Surround Master as well.
Worth trying for those of you who are Surround Master owners."

Ah, brilliant ..so it's not me seeing things then ..thats a relief. Unfortunately there's not much discrete action going on.

 

[John Svensson]

Beerking, search back and ye shall find a very long discussion about those 2 SACD releases, Mr. Desper's view of them, and all kinds of related stuff.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Ah, brilliant ..so it's not me seeing things then ..thats a relief. Unfortunately there's not much discrete action going on.

As improperly decoded by the folks at Analogue Productions DOUBLE STEREO .... at BEST!

 

[beerking]

Beerking, search back and ye shall find a very long discussion about those 2 SACD releases, Mr. Desper's view of them, and all kinds of related stuff.

ooh..I did a little search but obviously not deep enough..
but ta anyway..

 

[John Svensson]

Hey, they are still great fidelity! Frankly, I've forgotten how "surroundy" the are, would need to give a fresh listen. Maybe tonight.

 

[beerking]

Hey, they are still great fidelity! Frankly, I've forgotten how "surroundy" the are, would need to give a fresh listen. Maybe tonight.

Yeah its all cool....just got a little bewitched with it all...afraid, as ears said, double stereo just about sums it all up. Another missed opportunity grr.

 

[Larry Geller]

Properly decoded, all 3 albums have amazing separation, esp. Carl And The Passions. Could never be heard as double stereo.

 

[beerking]

Well, I've read Mr Despers comments and all of this thread, amongst others. And I thought I was confused!! Seems like the two BB releases opened up a complete hornets nest, more than I ever imagined they would.

So my understanding is, to get something close to a discrete playback, it would need to go through this, a surround master.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/involve-audio-surround-master

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/reviews/involve-audio-surround-master

Never a day goes past when I'm not learning about a new element to enhance my listening pleasure.

 

[MrSmithers]

Well, I've read Mr Despers comments and all of this thread, amongst others. And I thought I was confused!! Seems like the two BB releases opened up a complete hornets nest, more than I ever imagined they would.

So my understanding is, to get something close to a discrete playback, it would need to go through this, a surround master.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/involve-audio-surround-master

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/reviews/involve-audio-surround-master

Never a day goes past when I'm not learning about a new element to enhance my listening pleasure.

I'm the same... There's a new Surround Master coming out soonish I think?

 

[admsh]

This release of Surf's Up sounds super strange. Not very discrete but definitely all around, but in a very strange way... It's like the music is playing around you in a circle. It doesn't feel like you're immersed in the sound, more like there's a ring of music around you and it stays within it's boundaries. Not sure how else to describe it. Still a fun listen (though apart from the masterpieces, I can only listen to the Beach Boys for so long before I need to put on some hard rock and bring balance back to the multiverse).

 

[beerking]

This release of Surf's Up sounds super strange. Not very discrete but definitely all around, but in a very strange way... It's like the music is playing around you in a circle. It doesn't feel like you're immersed in the sound, more like there's a ring of music around you and it stays within it's boundaries. Not sure how else to describe it. Still a fun listen (though apart from the masterpieces, I can only listen to the Beach Boys for so long before I need to put on some hard rock and bring balance back to the multiverse).

Hi admsh,
It is a strange mix hence my confusion in what's really going on.
Ears did state its like a double stereo mix and to my ears it certainly sounds like that.
I suspect a wave map will show how this mix was constructed.
I don't have access to that yet.
It certainly needs to be re-mixed, to fully justify the sound the Beach Boys produced way back in 1971.
Here's hoping!! (That applies to Sunflower as well)

 

[4-earredwonder]

Hi admsh,
It is a strange mix hence my confusion in what's really going on.
Ears did state its like a double stereo mix and to my ears it certainly sounds like that.
I suspect a wave map will show how this mix was constructed.
I don't have access to that yet.
It certainly needs to be re-mixed, to fully justify the sound the Beach Boys produced way back in 1971.
Here's hoping!! (That applies to Sunflower as well)

Apparently, Larry Geller in his post #192 on this thread has heard these Beach Boys albums decoded properly through the Desper System and attests to their 'amazing separation.' If only AP could have utilized that decoder when preparing the multichannel releases of Surfs Up and Sunflower!

The very fact that nowhere on both SACDs is the word 'multichannel' utilized as if AP realized their 'decoder error' and sought to cover their tracks by listing them both as hybrid Stereo SACDs.

As hybrid Stereo SACDs they sound pretty darn good but really, don't expect anything other than double stereo if you choose to play them in 'multichannel.'

Ironically, I also have the Blood, Sweat and Tears BLOODLINES box set in which AP includes the original QUAD version of their self titled album and the Al Kooper 5.1 remix of Child Is Father To The Man which Audio Fidelity also released in SACD and NOWHERE on either disc is the word multichannel utilized, either. But Acoustic Sounds does make a point of including that info on their web site: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/111088/Blood_Sweat__Tears-Bloodlines-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD

 

[beerking]

Apparently, Larry Geller in his post #192 on this thread has heard these Beach Boys albums decoded properly through the Desper System and attests to their 'amazing separation.' If only AP could have utilized that decoder when preparing the multichannel releases of Surfs Up and Sunflower!

The very fact that nowhere on both SACDs is the word 'multichannel' utilized as if AP realized their 'decoder error' and sought to cover their tracks by listing them both as hybrid Stereo SACDs.

As hybrid Stereo SACDs they sound pretty darn good but really, don't expect anything other than double stereo if you choose to play them in 'multichannel.'

Ironically, I also have the Blood, Sweat and Tears BLOODLINES box set in which AP includes the original QUAD version of their self titled album and the Al Kooper 5.1 remix of Child Is Father To The Man which Audio Fidelity also released in SACD and NOWHERE on either disc is the word multichannel utilized, either. But Acoustic Sounds does make a point of including that info on their web site: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/111088/Blood_Sweat__Tears-Bloodlines-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD

Yes I read that post , how peculiar not to state 'multichannel' in the release..out of pure embarrassment I guess, as they messed it up.
Back to our favourite subject of 'so called' surround engineers.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yes I read that post , how peculiar not to state 'multichannel' in the release..out of pure embarrassment I guess, as they messed it up.
Back to our favourite subject of 'so called' surround engineers.

It's that STEREO mentality.....ya know, those stalwarts who resist even a 'whiff' of multichannel polluting their sacred Stereo Systems. That frankly boring argument that we ONLY have two ears. Beerking, we're never going to convince them to change. WE know what WE like and that's all that matters.

As for those 'so called' remix engineers. My new stance is READ the reviews before purchasing or else risk DISAPPOINTMENT and CLUTTER [because you'll probably NEVER play it again].

 

[beerking]

It's that STEREO mentality.....ya know, those stalwarts who resist even a 'whiff' of multichannel polluting their sacred Stereo Systems. That frankly boring argument that we ONLY have two ears. Beerking, we're never going to convince them to change. WE know what WE like and that's all that matters.

As for those 'so called' remix engineers. My new stance is READ the reviews before purchasing or else risk DISAPPOINTMENT and CLUTTER [because you'll probably NEVER play it again].

I could not agree more...hence my nervousness over Be Bop Deluxe..