AP SACDs of Beach Boys Sunflower and Surf's Up are stereo/multichannel with 4.0 mixes

[4-earredwonder]

I could not agree more...hence my nervousness over Be Bop Deluxe..

Well, my copy is en route [as we speak] but I'm hoping it's not the bust In Search of the Lost Chord was, and if it is, I'll have to placate myself by playing the LOSSLESS Remastered Stereo version like I've been doing for [frankly, too frequently] a lot of current 'botched' so called multichannel remixes.

Sad state of affairs, IMO.

I'm REALLY looking forward to Dutton Vocalion's next batch of QUAD SACDs ...... they're exceptionally priced, never disappoint and there's never any fiddling with the dials to make them sound BETTER!

 

[beerking]

Well, my copy is en route [as we speak] but I'm hoping it's not the bust In Search of the Lost Chord was, and if it is, I'll have to placate myself by playing the LOSSLESS Remastered Stereo version like I've been doing for [frankly, too frequently] a lot of current 'botched' so called multichannel remixes.

Sad state of affairs, IMO.

I'm REALLY looking forward to Dutton Vocalion's next batch of QUAD SACDs ...... they're exceptionally priced, never disappoint and there's never any fiddling with the dials to make them sound BETTER!

How can Dutton get everything so right and these 'amateurs' get it so wrong?
Frustrates the hell out of me.
Please engineers, get together and hear what can be achieved by a relatively small operation. Go on, bury your pride. Are we all not hearing the same output?
Ooh don't set me off Ralph!!
I do try to keep everything cool and friendly.

 

[4-earredwonder]

How can Dutton get everything so right and these 'amateurs' get it so wrong?
Frustrates the hell out of me.
Please engineers, get together and hear what can be achieved by a relatively small operation. Go on, bury your pride. Are we all not hearing the same output?
Ooh don't set me off Ralph!!
I do try to keep everything cool and friendly.

My late mother always taught me to look for the good in everyone....and everything. Not everything's ALL bad.

With that philosophy a distant memory I do try to find some good in everyone and everything but realistically speaking, sometimes I do find it impossible .... and improbable.

If we can be a bit patient and not pull the trigger on EVERY surround release available, I think our hobby will be that much more enjoyable. There are only so many hours in a day and I have enough films, surround audio discs and Stereo SACDs to keep me satisfied for the remainder of my life.

The operative word, Beerking, is choose more wisely and you'll have fewer or no regrets...and that extends to relationships and friendships, as well!

 

[beerking]

My late mother always taught me to look for the good in everyone....and everything. Not everything's ALL bad.

With that philosophy a distant memory I do try to find some good in everyone and everything but realistically speaking, sometimes I do find it impossible .... and improbable.

If we can be a bit patient and not pull the trigger on EVERY surround release available, I think our hobby will be that much more enjoyable. There are only so many hours in a day and I have enough films, surround audio discs and Stereo SACDs to keep me satisfied for the remainder of my life.

The operative word, Beerking, is choose more wisely and you'll have fewer or no regrets...and that extends to relationships and friendships, as well![/QUOTE]

Your mum and my mum are from similar stock!! (god is that really 3 years ago that she left us)

And on with the MUSAC

Before I become too melancholy.

 

[admsh]

It's that STEREO mentality.....ya know, those stalwarts who resist even a 'whiff' of multichannel polluting their sacred Stereo Systems. That frankly boring argument that we ONLY have two ears. Beerking, we're never going to convince them to change. WE know what WE like and that's all that matters.

As for those 'so called' remix engineers. My new stance is READ the reviews before purchasing or else risk DISAPPOINTMENT and CLUTTER [because you'll probably NEVER play it again].

I find this argument ridiculous all around. We all know how much more detail is possible when the sound is coming out of 4 speakers rather than two, not to mention more. There's no comparison. So even if one is just about the quality and clarity of the sound, one should be able to appreciate the superiority of a multichannel recording. Now, when the argument is about the sanctity of the original sound, that's a different story, and I can accept that. Back to the discussion about Pepper and TWA... But then it's not about appreciating sound quality at all.

 

[Perp]

I find this argument ridiculous all around. We all know how much more detail is possible when the sound is coming out of 4 speakers rather than two, not to mention more. There's no comparison. So even if one is just about the quality and clarity of the sound, one should be able to appreciate the superiority of a multichannel recording. Now, when the argument is about the sanctity of the original sound, that's a different story, and I can accept that. Back to the discussion about Pepper and TWA... But then it's not about appreciating sound quality at all.

For me, I don’t feel it’s about detail. I get detail no matter how many speakers are playing. It’s more about separation of instruments, vocals and sound effects.

 

[marpow]

I have all The Beach Boys, discs, SACD and I like them all. I am a big stereo listener as it is many times more relaxing to me, I can walk around the house, I can sit, I don’t fret about the soundstage as much. With surround titles I of course can do the same thing but I feel compelled to sit and listen to enjoy the full experience, and because I am a very active person the thought of sitting all the time does not appeal to me.
It’ raining, thank God.

 

[admsh]

For me, I don’t feel it’s about detail. I get detail no matter how many speakers are playing. It’s more about separation of instruments, vocals and sound effects.

Oh I wasn't dissing stereo, I listen to a lot more stereo than I do multichannel... Alas, there's so much great music, and not enough in multichannel. I was responding to the notion that if we only have two ears we should only be listening through two speakers. And doesn't separation equal detail? There's only so much that can come out of one, or two speakers and our ears can discern a lot more when it's separated. Is that not how one can spot things one never even knew existed in a discrete mix?

 

[Perp]

Oh I wasn't dissing stereo, I listen to a lot more stereo than I do multichannel... Alas, there's so much great music, and not enough in multichannel. I was responding to the notion that if we only have to ears we should only be listening through two speakers. And doesn't separation equal detail? There's only so much that can come out of one, or two speakers and our ears can discern a lot more when it separated. Is that not how one can spot things one never even knew existed in a discrete mix?

I don’t see it that way. At least, it’s not what I notice with my own two beers ears. Detail and separation are two different things. To give an example, when breaking up instruments, etc., into various loudspeakers, we get separation instead of everything crammed into one or two speakers. This helps us hear that instrument better but it’s not necessarily detailed. But what if I raise my crossover in my AVR from say 80 Hz to 100-120 Hz? My two-way speaker is going to allow me to hear more detail because I’m pushing less bass frequencies that can muddy up detail to that mid-bass driver. For me, there’s a difference.

 

[Larry Geller]

Apparently, Larry Geller in his post #192 on this thread has heard these Beach Boys albums decoded properly through the Desper System and attests to their 'amazing separation.' If only AP could have utilized that decoder when preparing the multichannel releases of Surfs Up and Sunflower!

The very fact that nowhere on both SACDs is the word 'multichannel' utilized as if AP realized their 'decoder error' and sought to cover their tracks by listing them both as hybrid Stereo SACDs.

As hybrid Stereo SACDs they sound pretty darn good but really, don't expect anything other than double stereo if you choose to play them in 'multichannel.'

Ironically, I also have the Blood, Sweat and Tears BLOODLINES box set in which AP includes the original QUAD version of their self titled album and the Al Kooper 5.1 remix of Child Is Father To The Man which Audio Fidelity also released in SACD and NOWHERE on either disc is the word multichannel utilized, either. But Acoustic Sounds does make a point of including that info on their web site: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/111088/Blood_Sweat__Tears-Bloodlines-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD

Nah, I didn't hear it through Desper, just the DVD-A transfer from Oxforddickie, which I believe was decoded with Dynaquad. BTW, back in 1970 & 1971, when these albums came out, all press on them (Rolling Stone, Billboard, High Fidelity) said that they were either Dynaquad, or passible as EV. No mention was ever made of Desper's "magic box", which I believe to be historical revisionism. With Dynaquad, Student Demonstration Time spins around the room.

 

[ar surround]

Has anyone tried playing the stereo master of Surf's Up through the Surround Master v2? If so, what are your impressions? Is it worth the expenditure? It's still available at AP.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Just a quick bump and question:

are these truly quad?

thx

 

[Ninecats]

Just a quick bump and question:

are these truly quad?

thx

I went through this entire thread once, and this question got even more unclear to me

 

[edisonbaggins]

I went through this entire thread once, and this question got even more unclear to me

Ok, so I'm not the only one. Surf's Up SACD is listed as multichannel on discogs, which got me wondering.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Just a quick bump and question:

are these truly quad?

thx

No.

I went through this entire thread once, and this question got even more unclear to me

Ha.
Read through this entire thread, and report back.
Fascinating info from Mr. Desper.
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...eptions-about-sunflower-so-called-quad.22469/

 

[sjcorne]

Just a quick bump and question:

are these truly quad?

thx

I went through this entire thread once, and this question got even more unclear to me

Here's my understanding of it:

• The original LPs were presented in some kind of pseudo-surround that only required two speakers (think along the lines of Qsound or Involve's TSS mode)
• Both LPs were released just as quad was gaining traction, so the record company proclaimed they were encoded in Dynaquad (one of the early quad matrix systems of the '70s) and labeled the LPs as such, even though they were not
• AP's SACD releases DO contain a multichannel layer, despite being labeled as stereo-only - it appears that they ran the stereo master tapes (which have the two-speaker pseudo-surround encoding) through some kind of upmixer that didn't produce much separation

 

[Ninecats]

Here's my understanding of it:

• The original LPs were presented in some kind of pseudo-surround that only required two speakers (think along the lines of Qsound or Involve's TSS mode)
• Both LPs were released just as quad was gaining traction, so the record company proclaimed they were encoded in Dynaquad (one of the early quad matrix systems of the '70s) and labeled the LPs as such, even though they were not
• AP's SACD releases DO contain a multichannel layer, despite being labeled as stereo-only - it appears that they ran the stereo master tapes (which have the two-speaker pseudo-surround encoding) through some kind of upmixer that didn't produce much separation

Thanks!

 

[ar surround]

Has anyone tried playing the stereo master of Surf's Up through the Surround Master v2? If so, what are your impressions? Is it worth the expenditure? It's still available at AP.

AP's SACD releases DO contain a multichannel layer, despite being labeled as stereo-only - it appears that they ran the stereo master tapes (which have the two-speaker pseudo-surround encoding) through some kind of upmixer that didn't produce much separation

OK, the multichannel layer is blah, so I'll ask again...Anyone have an opinion as to whether it is worth the $30 expenditure for the stereo layer on the SACD? Or should I just go with the redbook CD for around $7.

 

[H.A.L.]

OK, the multichannel layer is blah, so I'll ask again...Anyone have an opinion as to whether it is worth the $30 expenditure for the stereo layer on the SACD? Or should I just go with the redbook CD for around $7.

The Beach Boy SACDs sound fantastic, and I go for SACD over redbook any day (can only think of one or two misses like that -- Bowie's Hunky Dory was one of those, as was Steve Harley's Psychomodo). YMMV. I did not find that upmixing messed too much with Sunflower and Surf's Up (again YMMV).

edit: Actually Harley's wasn't an SACD, but a Japanese CD-SHM. Still disappointing.