Actually I only needed the very first part of that explanation..."there is no 4 channel master"...which for my purposes makes it just a pseudo surround effect...which can probably be achieved by a receiver setting and bested by a surround master..
AP SACDs of Beach Boys Sunflower and Surf's Up are stereo/multichannel with 4.0 mixes
- Thread starter muckel
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
Actually I only needed the very first part of that explanation..."there is no 4 channel master"...which for my purposes makes it just a pseudo surround effect...which can probably be achieved by a receiver setting and bested by a surround master..
himey
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2013
- Messages
- 3,895
I'm sure fredblue will let us know if the surround master decoder does a better job, and I look forward to the results!
Someone brought up the fact that the rights to the release may have been more expensive if they would have made the multichannel portion "offical". Who really knows the truth though...
What makes it interesting to me is that it was mixed with a specific decoding process in mind, a decoder which is hard to come by these days. If they did a good job of decoding it, they are giving us a 4 channel version of the album that was intended and would be otherwise difficult to reproduce for the average person without access to that specific decoder hardware.
I find hard to believe that they searched hard for an EV4 decoder to later hide the fact.
Could be, though.
Simon A
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 3,168
Maybe Kevin Gray or someone else involved had access to one. Kevin worked extensively with Steve Hoffman for years and I think they would have been aware of this so who knows?
Of course, I'd gladly do it (disclaimer: other QQ members also have Surround Masters!
..that said, time is limited at the moment unfortunately or I'd do it asap).In the meantime have you tried either of the albums through PLII Music?
(I find that is an approximation of sorts of the Surround Master's Involve setting, it may at least give an indication of what the Surround Master might be able to do, well I've found that from my limited playing around so far, almost all of my Surround Master stuffs been decoding SQ and QS records tbh... oh also, fwiw, when fiddling about with PLII Music, I like to widen the centre image out so much that the centre channel goes silent altogether.. and you've got faux Quad.. oh and for some stuff I'll stick "Panorama" to On, which can be pretty effective for making things more "surround-y", though that sometimes makes things a bit rear heavy).
Interesting theory on the stealth nature of the MultiCh on these two SACDs.. if that is the case then more power to their elbow! Wouldn't it be grand if AP and others could do more of this and sneak Surround out onto SACDS? (Who would notice but us Quaddies?
)Kinda dismaying publishers/rights holders etc would still seek to extract dosh for 3 variations on a theme (money for redbook, money for Stereo SACD, money for MCh SACD... money for nothing and the Surrounds for free...) but their short-sighted greed will be their undoing.. guess I'm naive to expect anything less.. and even dafter of me to expect them to have changed their ways in the years since things like the Beyonce SACD debacle a decade-plus ago... hum tee tum
Steve Hoffman would doubtless know about it.. he's said some things over at his forum over the years that show he knows way more about Quad than I think/suspect he might care to admit.. maybe?
Conspiratorially yours,
FB
Correct.
Sunflower and Surf's Up are Multichannel SACDs that include the decoded 4 Channel editions of all the songs that were encoded with the Desper system.
I'm surprised that most people have forgotten the reissue team's research on Matrix decoders when the remastered Beach Boys SACD series was first announced.
That led to speculation these two SACDs would feature a set of SACD Surround Sound tracks on the SACDs. They do!
Since the albums were encoded with the Desper system, I'm guessing the Stereo SACD tracks probably sound good decoded through the Involve Surround Master as well.
Worth trying for those of you who are Surround Master owners.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/95595/The_Beach_Boys-Surfs_Up-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/95593/The_Beach_Boys-Sunflower-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD
I'm basically confused. Sooo- If I play either of these through my Oppo, I will be able to hear correctly the multichannel layer?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The SACDs have Stereo SACD tracks and Surround Sound SACD tracks on the SACD layer of the discs.
Just like an Audio Fidelity Multichannel SACD.
[emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They could have used a Surround Master or another matrix decoder to generate the 4 Channel tracks.
The album booklet doesn't say.
View attachment 26716
Correct.
Sunflower and Surf's Up are Multichannel SACDs that include the decoded 4 Channel editions of all the songs that were encoded with the Desper system.
I'm surprised that most people have forgotten the reissue team's research on Matrix decoders when the remastered Beach Boys SACD series was first announced.
That led to speculation these two SACDs would feature a set of SACD Surround Sound tracks on the SACDs. They do!
Since the albums were encoded with the Desper system, I'm guessing the Stereo SACD tracks probably sound good decoded through the Involve Surround Master as well.
Worth trying for those of you who are Surround Master Owners.
So I take it we can look forward to more of these Beach Boys quads, as Steven Desper continued to encode with "15 BIG ONES", "LOVE YOU", and" KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE". And there may be a Q4 of "GOOD VIBRATIONS "(Greatest Hits) and an early encode from Dennis Wilson titled "QUADRAPHONIC SYMPHONY".:sun
To decode it yes a Surround Master would do.
Merely wanted to point out Steven Desper's early encode was Dynaquad and not EV-4 as some people think.Somewhat compatible with Ev-4.
quadsearcher
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2010
- Messages
- 1,212
While I don't have this on order yet, I'm looking for confirmation of how many songs were encoded on Sunflower. I've heard it was two, four, five, and the whole thing. The whole thing does do interesting stuff with DPLII, haven't tried the Surround Master yet, my table's down, hope to get it going this weekend.
I called Acoustic Sounds to ask about how the 4 channel layer was created and what matrix decoder was used. The guy I spoke with didn't know how Gus Skinas did it but he promised to email me some information about how it was done that he said he had access to. If I hear back I will post the response here.
View attachment 26716
Correct.
Sunflower and Surf's Up are Multichannel SACDs that include the decoded 4 Channel editions of all the songs that were encoded with the Desper system.
I'm surprised that most people have forgotten the reissue team's research on Matrix decoders when the remastered Beach Boys SACD series was first announced.
That led to speculation these two SACDs would feature a set of SACD Surround Sound tracks on the SACDs. They do!
Since the albums were encoded with the Desper system, I'm guessing the Stereo SACD tracks probably sound good decoded through the Involve Surround Master as well.
Worth trying for those of you who are Surround Master Owners.
There are no plans that I have read of anywhere for SACD versions of the albums you mention to be released.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
From what I have read Steven Desper (Spatializer) was a stereo enhancer to give a surround sound with 2 Speakers
same as Q sound and Involve TSS
It gives a good surround on the Surround Master Involve setting
And he was using it with them up to 1999 and maybe more
same as Q sound and Involve TSS
It gives a good surround on the Surround Master Involve setting
And he was using it with them up to 1999 and maybe more
I listened to BMOURA and he said surround so I bought them both. There SACD so even mono or stereo it's a plus.
