Apple Mac OS crucial fault; Macs do not pass ATMOS through HDMI- any workaround to it?

[kap'n krunch]

Being a Mac user and trying to set an ATMOS mixing setup using Logic I have hit a HUGE wall.
Using the Tone Winner AT-300 preamp, which decodes ATMOS perfectly from Blu Ray players, I have tried my best to have the preamp "see" the Mac as 7.1.4 but it only goes up to 7.1.
Even worse, I try to listen to ATMOS mkv files thru VLC and it does not see the height speakers.
Even in the Audio/MIDI setup windows, when I go to test the specific outputs in the "Configure Speakers" option, the Left and Right front white noise comes out of the respective front and rear speakers at the same time. It's a real shit show....

Have even downloaded a great app called "Sphere" (the Ground Control version) to try to configure the inputs and outputs, and still, no dice...


I am guessing that Windows DOES pass ATMOS through HDMI...

the answer to this lies in me spending a few more thousand dollars to get a PROPER interface...
I guess this is the price to pay to get into ATMOS mixing

...hooray!

 

[humprof]

Being a Mac user and trying to set an ATMOS mixing setup using Logic I have hit a HUGE wall.
Using the Tone Winner AT-300 preamp, which decodes ATMOS perfectly from Blu Ray players, I have tried my best to have the preamp "see" the Mac as 7.1.4 but it only goes up to 7.1.
Even worse, I try to listen to ATMOS mkv files thru VLC and it does not see the height speakers.
Even in the Audio/MIDI setup windows, when I go to test the specific outputs in the "Configure Speakers" option, the Left and Right front white noise comes out of the respective front and rear speakers at the same time. It's a real shit show....

Have even downloaded a great app called "Sphere" (the Ground Control version) to try to configure the inputs and outputs, and still, no dice...


I am guessing that Windows DOES pass ATMOS through HDMI...

the answer to this lies in me spending a few more thousand dollars to get a PROPER interface...
I guess this is the price to pay to get into ATMOS mixing

...hooray!

This is a known--and much lamented--issue, unfortunately, Kap. (I discovered it, much to my aggravation, after buying my first Mac a year or so ago.) @sjcorne and/or @fredblue can direct you one or two threads with discussion and a workaround.

 

[sjcorne]

Even if the Mac could bitstream over HDMI, you’d need an interface to mix as the Dolby Atmos Renderer does not output encoded audio in real time.

 

[kap'n krunch]

Thanks , guys…I have seen many a post stating it ….
would any of you gentlemen direct me to the posts with the workaround?
I did look for it but it seems it’s hidden in other threads (either that or I did not search diligently enough).

It would be nice to have the workaround on a thread with a title which is probably more direct or clear, I could be wrong ,though.

 

[François]

Just a though on this issue: Mac OS has system beeps, in order for them to be heard they have to be mixed to any other sounds that are sent to the audio output device. So everything that is playing has to be decoded to PCM in order to be mixed to other sounds that can be played simultaneously. That’s why, I think, Mac OS can not send bitstream over HDMI. But you can change the device on which the system sounds are played (thus avoiding any mixing?) in the system settings, to have them played on the Mac internal speaker, and you can change the volume of the system sounds independently, even mute them completely. That may not fix the issue… (I haven’t tested it)

If there is anybody that may know more about sound on the Mac (outside of Apple), it’s the guys at Rogue Amoeba. Maybe we can ask them nicely?

 

[humprof]

Thanks , guys…I have seen many a post stating it ….
would any of you gentlemen direct me to the posts with the workaround?
I did look for it but it seems it’s hidden in other threads (either that or I did not search diligently enough).

It would be nice to have the workaround on a thread with a title which is probably more direct or clear, I could be wrong ,though.

Start here, kap?
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/dolby-atmos-on-macos.31880/page-2
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/apple-music-dolby-atmos-playback-from-mac.32525/
Also:
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...listen-to-dolby-atmos-without-costly-hardware
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...olby-truehd-atmos-on-windows-and-macos-r1092/

 

[jimfisheye]

I posted about a workaround but it looks like it's not working for HDMI connected pass-through. Is this muting the height channels per certain hardware or subscription? Or an auto-pilot gone wrong and too smart for its own good? It looks like something turned off rather than an inability, is the point. That means it's worth poking around.

Just an idea to try:
Run through a virtual audio device and then out to the AVR.

The encoded signal fills 2 audio channels. The receiver has to recognize an encoded input and respond accordingly. Sounds like MacOS is having an opportunity to get in between and interject? So maybe if you "proxy'd" that 2 ch data through a virtual device first it would get around that?

 

[kap'n krunch]

Start here, kap?
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/dolby-atmos-on-macos.31880/page-2
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/apple-music-dolby-atmos-playback-from-mac.32525/
Also:
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...listen-to-dolby-atmos-without-costly-hardware
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...olby-truehd-atmos-on-windows-and-macos-r1092/

Cheers @humprof , I guess I didn’t look well enough…

 

[kap'n krunch]

to add insult to injury, I dusted my extremely slow PC laptop and connected it to my PreAmp thru HDMI and almost immediately started playing ATMOS encoded mkvs (I had to configure VLC's Audio output settings to MCH)...dang!

 

[mandrix]

to add insult to injury, I dusted my extremely slow PC laptop and connected it to my PreAmp thru HDMI and almost immediately started playing ATMOS encoded mkvs (I had to configure VLC's Audio output settings to MCH)...dang!

Yeah just set VLC to bitstream via HDMI and it's all good! (on a pc)
I admit to knowing almost nothing about Mac's. I always heard over the years they were great for video and sound production, so the HDMI thing puzzles me.
Anyways hope you found a workaround kap'n.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sadly this bitstreaming issue isn't just confined to MAC's. As any new Windows laptop that only offers an USB-C port to a breakout box, for passing audio and video to an external AVR or TV/monitor, is currently unable to bitstream the likes of lossless Dolby TrueHD (with or without Atmos) or DTS-HD MA...

 

[mandrix]

Sadly this bitstreaming issue isn't just confined to MAC's. As any new Windows laptop that only offers an USB-C port to a breakout box, for passing audio and video to an external AVR or TV/monitor, is currently unable to bitstream the likes of lossless Dolby TrueHD (with or without Atmos) or DTS-HD MA...

Yes, so I understand. I have not owned a laptop in years, but can't one be ordered with HDMI? Or maybe it's restricted to certain models. IDK.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, so I understand. I have not owned a laptop in years, but can't one be ordered with HDMI? Or maybe it's restricted to certain models. IDK.

I'm actually on the hunt for a better laptop, to replace my 2015 Dell Inspiron 17-5758. I need something that can play 4K video (HEVC, VP9.2 and AV1) without stuttering and output via HDMI to my current 4K television.

Suffice to say... I have no interest in a laptop that can play games

 

[jimfisheye]

I don't have an HDMI device with an Atmos decoder installed to it to experiment with any of this and I kind of never intend to buy one. I just won't buy hardware to get access to software like that.

Has anyone tried to daisy chain the audio through a virtual device first?

The data point of connecting to said HDMI device with Windows installed on the computer is pretty black and white. This is purely Apple muting the Atmos channels because you don't have an "approved" device connected. This is what post-Jobs Apple is all about now. Software spoofing up down back and forth and all around!

Re: HDMI ports with audio disabled on Windows laptops.
Try the thunderbolt port if it has one. Get a TB to HDMI adapter.

I started using Loopback virtual audio device a while back. Was worth the price for the extended features and I believe it is more stable when trying to do audio sample rate sync over the USB data connection (which is strongly not recommended to do).

Blackhole and Soundflower are free.

Just for example again. When I boot into Monterey and set the channel format for my output device in Audio MIDI Setup, VOX player (3rd party) gets channels 9-12 muted. Dolby Reference Player does not! The "don't ever select the channel format in AMS" workaround results in all 12 channel output from VOX. DRP still works. But this is with sending multichannel audio to an audio interface. Not encoded data over 2 audio channels.

HOWEVER, I discovered VLC player is defaulting to stereo output when it doesn't get a hand shake from AMS with a valid channel format selected! These services are meant to talk to each other in the background. Copy protection gone wild style of doing things fails safe to muting audio. I have to switch to a 6 channel device with 5.1 format selected to listen to 5.1 audio from VLC player.

I don't have any video + Atmos encoded audio content yet. I'd probably rip it to seperate video and 12 ch audio and play it in a DAW like Reaper at present until this current format war ends and fully functional media players are back.

I'm starting to wonder here if post-Jobs Apple is the main big bad guy? Maybe Dolby never intended to go so far to bite anyone's hand? They're working hand in hand together at any rate. And they're refusing to even sell their software to anyone independent - just that part tells the story.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't have an HDMI device with an Atmos decoder installed to it to experiment with any of this and I kind of never intend to buy one. I just won't buy hardware to get access to software like that.

I feel much the same...

That being said, given that Atmos (for home use) is around 10 years old, I'm surprised there aren't any cheapo black boxes (with an HDMI input, an HDMI 'pass-through' output and six RCA/phono outputs) that are able to decode the Atmos elements to PCM.

 

[jimfisheye]

I remember seeing this crap with HDMI at the beginning! Copy protection gone wild style and failing safe to disabling output at the drop of a hat. It seemed clear right away to avoid anything and everything to do with HDMI. That has served me well and it's been ignorance and bliss the whole time.

This is getting more difficult as this all evolves of course!

Is it possible to throw a Linux install on that computer? If the Mac with a Windows install just works right out of the box...
Seems worth a try. Linux is still Unix based like Mac and would be a lot less of a learning curve to switch to than Windows at this point! And it doesn't cost $300 or whatever they're selling Windows for these days.

This would push me to jump in with an experiment but again, I don't have access to any HDMI device with an Atmos decoder installed to it to test.

 

[mandrix]

I don't have an HDMI device with an Atmos decoder installed to it to experiment with any of this and I kind of never intend to buy one. I just won't buy hardware to get access to software like that.

Has anyone tried to daisy chain the audio through a virtual device first?

The data point of connecting to said HDMI device with Windows installed on the computer is pretty black and white. This is purely Apple muting the Atmos channels because you don't have an "approved" device connected. This is what post-Jobs Apple is all about now. Software spoofing up down back and forth and all around!

Re: HDMI ports with audio disabled on Windows laptops.
Try the thunderbolt port if it has one. Get a TB to HDMI adapter.

I started using Loopback virtual audio device a while back. Was worth the price for the extended features and I believe it is more stable when trying to do audio sample rate sync over the USB data connection (which is strongly not recommended to do).

Blackhole and Soundflower are free.

Just for example again. When I boot into Monterey and set the channel format for my output device in Audio MIDI Setup, VOX player (3rd party) gets channels 9-12 muted. Dolby Reference Player does not! The "don't ever select the channel format in AMS" workaround results in all 12 channel output from VOX. DRP still works. But this is with sending multichannel audio to an audio interface. Not encoded data over 2 audio channels.

HOWEVER, I discovered VLC player is defaulting to stereo output when it doesn't get a hand shake from AMS with a valid channel format selected! These services are meant to talk to each other in the background. Copy protection gone wild style of doing things fails safe to muting audio. I have to switch to a 6 channel device with 5.1 format selected to listen to 5.1 audio from VLC player.

I don't have any video + Atmos encoded audio content yet. I'd probably rip it to seperate video and 12 ch audio and play it in a DAW like Reaper at present until this current format war ends and fully functional media players are back.

I'm starting to wonder here if post-Jobs Apple is the main big bad guy? Maybe Dolby never intended to go so far to bite anyone's hand? They're working hand in hand together at any rate. And they're refusing to even sell their software to anyone independent - just that part tells the story.

Well the last sentence certainly tells the story.
People with no access to the DRP don't have much choice when it comes to Atmos for decoding. Yet.

 

[mandrix]

Even the DRP is just too limited for home use. No MKV support and I found few MP4's w/video that would play for me.

 

[sjcorne]

As mentioned in one of the articles @humprof linked upthread, it's long been known that the Apple Music app on MacOS will internally decode Atmos to 12-channel PCM when sent to a virtual device with at least that # of channels. The fact that they allow people to do this (without any special hardware) kind of negates all the conspiracy talk about copy protection for me.

MacOS has never supported HDMI pass-through, end of story. This isn't a new development just to mess with people trying to listen to Atmos files. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro (with a real HDMI port!) and even the original "El Capitan" OS it came with - which predates all this Atmos integration by years - could not pass DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD-encoded audio to my AVR over HDMI. It always decoded up to 7.1 inside the computer and sent PCM instead.

 

[mandrix]

As mentioned in one of the articles @humprof linked upthread, it's long been known that the Apple Music app on MacOS will internally decode Atmos to 12-channel PCM when sent to a virtual device with at least that # of channels. The fact that they allow people to do this (without any special hardware) kind of negates all the conspiracy talk about copy protection for me.

MacOS has never supported HDMI pass-through, end of story. This isn't a new development just to mess with people trying to listen to Atmos files. I have a 2015 MacBook Pro (with a real HDMI port!) and even the original "El Capitan" OS it came with - which predates all this Atmos integration by years - could not pass DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD-encoded audio to my AVR over HDMI. It always decoded up to 7.1 inside the computer and sent PCM instead.

I stand corrected. I'm in the pc world, know nothing much about Apple products.