Barclay James Harvest (3 CD +1 5.1 DVD Box Set)

[rtbluray]

If not MLP, I hope it is at least DTS.

I think it will definitely have the latter. The former is currently a tossup, but at least we know that Esoteric are certainly not against the release of DVD-A/V discs as evidenced by the recent Anthony Phillips releases, so like I always say, Hope Springs Eternal!

 

[rtbluray]

One little detail that's not been brought to our attention so far is this (for "Everyone is Everybody Else"):

This edition includes two CDs and a DVD, and features a re-master of the original album mix, along with stunning 2016 stereo and 5.1 surround mixes of the album (with the exception of For No One - omitted due to the multi-track master tapes having long since vanished)

But then there's this:

The set also includes new stereo and 5.1 Surround sound mixes of a different version of Child of the Universe, recorded in February 1975 for an American single release.

(Just thought I would point all of this out since it hasn't been said yet.)

 

[rtbluray]

I'm friends with Mark Powell on Facebook. You will see his name on several reissues of classic albums (mostly progressive and many containing surround sound.)
Here's a recent Facebook post from him this morning concerning the Barclay James Harvest reissues:

Listening to the final authored 5.1 mixes of Everyone is Everybody Else by Barclay James Harvest. They sound fabulous. Hats off to Craig, Paschal and the authoring maestro Ray Shulman for such a wonderful job. Very proud of this as it was a difficult one to nail due to state of the multi tracks but a great team effort. Out in June on Esoteric followed by Gone to Earth, Octoberon & XII in July and August.

So that's the good news. "Octoberon" and "XII" will follow after "Everyone is Everybody Else" and "Gone to Earth".
The bad news? Ray Shulman's name was brought up, so you know what that means, right? DVD-Video.
Oh well, you win some, and you lose some, but anyway, that's the latest round-up!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Good news, Octoberon, and XII.


Ray Schulman might just do bluray as was done for the two Gentle Giant's Octupus and Power and the Glory.fwiw I like the authoring they do.

 

[rtbluray]

Good news, Octoberon, and XII.


Ray Schulman might just do bluray as was done for the two Gentle Giant's Octupus and Power and the Glory.fwiw I like the authoring they do.

"Everybody is Everyone Else" and "Gone to Earth" are already confirmed as DVD releases, and the same will probably be true for the eventual releases of "Octoberon" and "XII".
Not only does Ray Shulman have absolutely no say in deciding the formats for these releases, but Esoteric are not likely to ever support Blu-Ray as the authoring and manufacturing costs are probably too high for a small, independent label like them.
They could have commissioned Neil Wilkes to author DVD-A/V releases like he's already doing for the Anthony Phillips reissue series (also on Esoteric), but alas, we'll just have to live with lossy surround audio yet again. It's not a great trend, but it's better than not getting any surround releases at all, that's for sure!

 

[artwwweb]

I quite understand that they can’t mix For No One due to missing multis, but their response to that seems crazy to me. There would normally be an upmix in its place; they weren’t happy with the results, fair enough. So I would have then put the stereo track on the DVD rather than missing it out completely. To play the album in full you have to change discs. There is bound to be room on the DVD. And, assuming they have the stereo master, it could also have been in higher res than on the CD. Perhaps they didn’t want to be perceived as trying to fool anybody, but I would have been much happier with something rather than nothing, even though it’s a duplicated track.

It feels like the 5.1 is thought of as ‘bonus tracks’: that we will play the stereo most of the time and sometimes play 5.1 as a curio. Whereas I, and I’m sure many other QQers, will mainly play the 5.1. (In fact, I will probably never play the stereo discs at all.)

Thankfully, I don’t really know this album, so it won’t hurt, but if it was, for example, Who’s Next in 5.1 with no Won’t Get Fooled Again at the end it would be really weird.

However, this basically looks like a great set of releases over the next few months!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Yea,

I know what you mean.Why not just Penteo the missing multi.It's unfair really, I'm still miffed that Tank was excluded from this process on the ELP release.

 

[DuncanS]

Me to. I'd much rather have a Penteo upmix, or even the disc revert to stereo for just a track with missing multis, than lose the continuity of the music.

 

[rtbluray]

Alright, folks, my 5.1 deluxe edition of "Everyone is Everybody Else" arrived this evening, and I had a chance to go through it. Here's what I think:

Overall there's a lot of great material on this album. If you have ever heard their most successful album ("Once Again"), then I think those of you who enjoy that album will enjoy this one too. My only complaint about the material is that a lot of these songs tend to sound very much alike after a while. A little variety never hurts sometimes.
As for the surround mix, it's an average mix. It's not that good, but it's not that bad either. On the plus side, there's no crazy panning moves to distract you and it is a mix that does a pretty good job supporting the music, but it just does not have that 'wow' factor that one could use to describe mixes like "Hand. Cannot. Erase." or "Oranges & Lemons". Also, no complaints whatsoever on the fidelity front.
Therefore I can conclude that this release is a solid '8', breaking down my vote this way:

Music: 3/3
Surround Mix: 2/3
Fidelity: 3/3
High-Res Disc: 0/1

Finally, this is yet another example of a release that fails to take advantage of the full capabilities and space that DVD can offer. The DVD file size is a paltry 2.75GB, leaving plenty of space for things that we are not privy to for this release. That could include high-res surround sound (for a DVD-A player), the original stereo mix in high-res, video material, and more. So in that regard, the DVD is definitely a letdown. I think you will find a greater use of the full capabilities of DVD on the new "Sanctuary II" release from Robert Reed.
(And don't get me started on the use of the wrong DVD logo, which only further rubs salt in an already sore wound…)

 

[DuncanS]

I'll give it a few more days, but it looks like Cherry Red have forgotten to post my pre-ordered copy again!

 

[GOS]

I received my copy of Everyone is Everybody Else today. Nice package...poster etc.

I popped in the DTS 96/24 layer. The general feeling is warm and full. Nice bass. This is not discreet whatsoever. I guess some of you might call it expanded stereo. Regardless, the vocals are firmly anchored in center channel. A little too loud fore my taste. I dropped the center 3db and all is good. Personally, I like the way it sounds. Again - far from a surround tour de force. Far from it. But, the general feeling is good, and it cranks. I like it a lot.

What I'm saying is - I knew nothing about BJH, and I dig the songs and vibes and the DTS does it justice. Absolutely, no regrets buying this. I would play this more than a couple times. Good music.

 

[timothyemerson]

I've given my Everyone is Everybody Else a few spins. For what it's worth if anyone's on the fence:

Good bits:
1. The music is awesome. Toe-tappin', head bobbin', air drummin', warblin' along. Good fun.

2. Fidelity is excellent. Great production. Drums are huge!

3. On first listen, the surround mix was a bit underwhelming as it's not terribly adventurous but on subsequent spins, I quite enjoy it.

4. Although For No One isn't on the DVD, the surround mix of the US single version of Child of the Universe acts as a nice reprise at the end of the album.

Not so good bits:
1. Cardboard packaging. The spine was bent on arrival.

2. For No One could have been Penteo'd. Steve Hackett's Defector shows that this software can achieve surprisingly good results. If there isn't a poll already, perhaps there could be one to see if we'd all prefer some stereo-to-surround magic if multi-track tapes are missing. We can probably all guess the results but it might give the record companies' some ammunition to argue for the use of Penteo where necessary in future (if any of them are paying attention).

3. Forced to buy CDs to get the surround mix. That's like forcing the purchase of a tape when you want the vinyl, or vinyl when you want CD.

Solution: Do a double CD release (old mix/new mix/extra tracks) and a BD release. If you want the CDs, buy the CDs. If you want the BD, buy the BD. If you want both, buy both. Plenty of room on the BD for old stereo mix/new stereo mix/surround mix/extra tracks/any video from the period/liner notes. The BD menu can allow navigation to read liner notes while listening too. You just need to look at movie BDs to see what’s possible with the nav. It's a no-brainer and not a ton of extra work.

It'll also get around the "need" for cardboard packaging: Double plastic case for the CDs, plastic case or Super Jewel Box for the BD. Man, I hate cardboard packaging. It's way more expensive to produce too. All that heavy card stock needs to be printed full colour, both sides, trimmed, creased and plastic trays need to be glued in place. What a waste of time for something that's perishable and so easily damaged. A BD insert is just one sheet of light paper stock and if the plastic gets cracked enroute, it's easy to replace.

Bottom line: Very glad I bought it. It’s a great album and decent surround mix. Looking forward to the next one.

 

[rtbluray]

There's only one flaw in your argument which I picked up on.

Esoteric will probably never release standalone Blu-Ray audio discs for their releases. Why? Blu-Ray is much more expensive to author and replicate than DVD is, which makes it especially tough for smaller, independent labels that don't have the resources that the major labels do.
The only complaint I have with the release is that they chose DVD-V over DVD-A/V, which means lossy surround audio for us.
(That and also the fact that they could have packed more onto the DVD compared to what's on it now…)

 

[timothyemerson]

Esoteric will probably never release standalone Blu-Ray audio discs for their releases. Why? Blu-Ray is much more expensive to author and replicate than DVD is, which makes it especially tough for smaller, independent labels that don't have the resources that the major labels do.

Dang, that's a shame. Do you know if the reason for this is that an entire new BD pressing machine is required? If so, I'm guessing that one would be rather expensive. Would be good if they could rent some time on another label's machine so they could make use of the ~50GB available on a BD.

 

[rtbluray]

Dang, that's a shame. Do you know if the reason for this is that an entire new BD pressing machine is required? If so, I'm guessing that one would be rather expensive. Would be good if they could rent some time on another label's machine so they could make use of the ~50GB available on a BD.

Those are the kind of specifics I don't know about, but many have said on here before about the added expenses associated with Blu-Ray that are either not applicable or less costly for DVD authoring and replication.

 

[DoctorO]

I am happy to have this edition, but the absence of For No One really kills the experience of the album for old folks like myself who enjoyed it in its heyday. It's really integral to the wrap-up "trilogy" as well as to the original album side, and puts the album in a different category on the heels of a couple of more "pop" sounding tunes. Agree that it should have been preserved in its original form or "doctored" to fit from whatever source was available.

 

[ssully]

I was slightly amused to see that throughout the packaging of EiEE they keep referring to CD 1 (the original mix, remastered) as '24 bit-remastered'...when it's a CD, no? So, 16 bit playback, yes*? Reminded me of the old days when 'Super Bit Mapping' was a new thing. (What they mean, surely, is that the transfer of the tapes and mastering were done at 96/24, then finally converted to good old Redbook)



(*I'm not complaining about the sound. For analog tape recording of this vintage, 16 vs 24 bits *does not matter* at the playback end)

 

[rtbluray]

I was slightly amused to see that throughout the packaging of EiEE they keep referring to CD 1 (the original mix, remastered) as '24 bit-remastered'...when it's a CD, no? So, 16 bit playback, yes*? Reminded me of the old days when 'Super Bit Mapping' was a new thing. (What they mean, surely, is that the transfer of the tapes and mastering were done at 96/24, then finally converted to good old Redbook)

(*I'm not complaining about the sound. For analog tape recording of this vintage, 16 vs 24 bits *does not matter* at the playback end)

I still think it's puzzling as to why they would remaster the original stereo mix at 96 kHz/24 bit and NOT include that mix in its fullest resolution on the DVD, especially when there was still lots of space available to do so.
Once again, common sense does not always abound on some of these releases...

 

[ssully]

I still think it's puzzling as to why they would remaster the original stereo mix at 96 kHz/24 bit and NOT include that mix in its fullest resolution on the DVD, especially when there was still lots of space available to do so.
Once again, common sense does not always abound on some of these releases...

I agree, silly for them NOT to include it, as they made such a fuss about it, and they certainly had the space.

Though in practical terms, makes no (audible) difference, unless the mastering is different in some *other* way (e.g., less compression, different EQ).

 

[Spock]

Got my copy today, very happy, I am a big fan of BJH and have all their albums. They were very popular in Norway and many of their albums chartet here:

http://www.bjharvest.co.uk/chart.htm

Strange that about some groups/artists being popular in only a few countries.

I miss the For No One track - but love the surround mix of this album. I really hope to see a lot more of their albums get this treatment, I will get them all.