HiRez Poll Beck, Jeff - BLOW BY BLOW [SACD]

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Rate the SACD of Jeff Beck - BLOW BY BLOW


  • Total voters
    141
Is this really a multi channel version...or is acoustic sounds description just wrong...makes little sense as a multi channel release...they wouldn't remaster the stereo section and do nothing to the existing surround section...


Clint, Analogue Productions has been known to include a multichannel version of an existing master when available. For example: http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8...-Time_Out-Hybrid_3-Channel_Stereo_SACD.....if you scroll to the bottom of AP's explanation the unaltered existing Columbia mch master WAS utilized. The only time AP did alter a mch remix was when they 'corrected' the out of phase rear channels on their mch SACD release of Norah Jones "Come Away With Me." I had the original Blue Note mch SACD and purchased the AP SACD mch version which WAS superior to the initial SACD release.

It WOULD make sense to include the 'existing, unaltered' Columbia mch master of Blow by Blow on AP's new reissue....just don't expect it to be different than the two previous Blow by Blow mch editions (single layered original SONY mch SACD/Japanese mch SACD). As AP stresses: they're more concerned with the STEREO layer and just include the mch layer as an 'added bonus."
 
Clint, Analogue Productions has been known to include a multichannel version of an existing master when available. For example: http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8...-Time_Out-Hybrid_3-Channel_Stereo_SACD.....if you scroll to the bottom of AP's explanation the unaltered existing Columbia mch master WAS utilized. The only time AP did alter a mch remix was when they 'corrected' the out of phase rear channels on their mch SACD release of Norah Jones "Come Away With Me." I had the original Blue Note mch SACD and purchased the AP SACD mch version which WAS superior to the initial SACD release.

It WOULD make sense to include the 'existing, unaltered' Columbia mch master of Blow by Blow on AP's new reissue....just don't expect it to be different than the two previous Blow by Blow mch editions (single layered original SONY mch SACD/Japanese mch SACD). As AP stresses: they're more concerned with the STEREO layer and just include the mch layer as an 'added bonus."

That's a good explanation...but since they really focus on the stereo aspect it leads me to believe that they must have gotten that multi channel license very cheaply...especially with the price point at $30...
 
That's a good explanation...but since they really focus on the stereo aspect it leads me to believe that they must have gotten that multi channel license very cheaply...especially with the price point at $30...

A guess, but SONY may have included the mch layer GRATIS for Blow by Blow which would preclude additional licensing fees. The Norah Jones SACDs (including Come Away With Me) added $2.50 to AP's usual $30 charge ($32.50) but additional work was necessary to correct the initial out of phase rears (although the other 5 NJ reissues, including the bonus SACD w/the box set, were STEREO only).
 
Just ordered the reissue (8th of March) of the hybrid multi channel SACD from Acoustic Sounds, along with Best of the Doors to make up the $50 minimum order to ship to the UK.

You really will not be disappointed in either release. Both have great music and are flagship releases for Quadraphonic sound and the SACD format. :)
 
Is there a new version of this album? I have thought it was long-since out of print?

There R 2 that R in-print. One from Sony Japan and one from Analogue Productions (coming soon)... although I don't think we're supposed to post this stuff in a poll thread.
 
I wonder if AP will fix the problem with the out of phase rear channels that exists on the original Sony/Columbia SACD.

If you don't have any bass management this might not be an issue, but if you do you'll probably find (like I did) that this album always sounded bass-shy. There is a lot of low end content (bass guitar/bass drum etc.) duplicated between the front and rear channels, and with the rears phase inverted when it all gets combined to be sent to the sub, the duplicated content in the rears cancels out the content in the front and voila, not much bass. It's exactly the same problem that plagued the 5.1 mix on the recent Opeth 'Pale Communion' Blu-Ray.

It wasn't until I ripped the SACD, converted it to PCM, inverted the phase on the rear channels and exported as multi-channel FLACs that this really started sounding good.


Edited to add: any chance AP will add the quad mix to the Wired SACD they have in the pipe? Now that would be a bit of a coup seeing as that mix has never seen digital release whereas Blow By Blow has done at least twice between the US and Japan.
 
You really will not be disappointed in either release. Both have great music and are flagship releases for Quadraphonic sound and the SACD format. :)

Thanks, I'm sure I won't be disappointed, I already have an unofficial DVD-A conversion of BbB and a Quad Vinyl to DVD-A of BotD. Blow by Blow is one of my all time favourite albums, I bought the LP it upon it's release, same with the CD.
 
You really will not be disappointed in either release. Both have great music and are flagship releases for Quadraphonic sound and the SACD format. :)

Thanks, I'm sure I won't be disappointed, I already have an unofficial DVD-A conversion of BbB and a Quad Vinyl to DVD-A of BotD. Blow by Blow is one of my all time favourite albums, I bought the LP it upon it's release, same with the CD.
 
There R 2 that R in-print. One from Sony Japan and one from Analogue Productions (coming soon)... although I don't think we're supposed to post this stuff in a poll thread.

Oops, that would be my fault, sorry.
 
Jon
I have the SACD with a Red cover and EPIC label
It is duel layer
Is this new one any difference ?
 
Jon
I have the SACD with a Red cover and EPIC label
It is duel layer
Is this new one any difference ?

The Analogue Productions edition of Blow by Blow includes the Multichannel mix with the out-of-phase problem fixed.
Yes, there is a difference you can hear. :)
 
The Analogue Productions edition of Blow by Blow includes the Multichannel mix with the out-of-phase problem fixed.
Yes, there is a difference you can hear. :)

I guess i´ll have to buy the new verson.
Still i´m not sad that i bought the japanese verson as it is an beautiful package.
Compared to buying 200 gram LP-packages with 45rpm it has not been so expensive after all.
 
So's... having listened to the AP version (and having never heard the previous two), sounds to me like there is plenty of bass and plenty of rears activity.
Sound is more or less consistent throughout the album. I don't hear any obvious phasing. Now, due to differences in bass-management and other configuration nuances, YMMV. :mad:@:
 
This is the next title in my quest to look at all the Sony SACDs sourced from quadraphonic masters. When I was doing the conversion from SACD to PCM to load up in my DAW I had a vague recollection that I'd had issues with the bass on this disc, and sure enough almost 13 years ago (!) I started a thread here about this title called Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow ...where's the bass?

Reading through the old thread, it plays out almost identically to the thread about the recent Opeth Blu-Ray, which had a couple of out-of-phase channels, both in terms of what I was experiencing (muddy/ill-defined bass guitar, lots of bass drum) and what other people were saying (people with full range speakers claiming it was fine). So the first thing I did once I had the album loaded up was look at phase correlation, and sure enough the front left and front right channels are out of phase with the rear channels (and the LFE track). See here:

View attachment 16944

You can clearly see the peaks (arrows placed for convenience by yours truly) for the front channels oscillate in the opposite direction as the rear speakers, which is a definitive visual indicator of phase issues. The LFE track (not pictured) oscillates the same way as the rear channels which tells me that it's the front channels that are the problem. Once you invert the phase on the front channels, all 5 channels are in phase and voila, there's the bass I was missing.

It's also worth saying that I think the phase issues were created during export. The LFE, being derived from the 4 main channels, would have been a phase cancelled mess if the original tracks were out of phase but it isn't. What I think happened is somewhere along the line, this mix went through an analog stage and the front left and front right channels were wired out of phase. I also think this went throught an ADAT (PCM stage) which I'll explain after this. It went one of two ways:

original tapes (in phase) -analog connection, in phase-> DAW (to generate LFE & phantom center) -digital connection-> ADAT (PCM) -analog out, front channels wired out of phase-> DSD workstation to generate SACD master

or

original tapes (in phase) -analog connection, in phase-> ADAT -digital connection-> DAW (LFE/center generation) -analog out, fronts wired out of phase-> DSD workstation to generate SACD master

The reason I think there's an ADAT generation in there somewhere is that spectral analysis shows frequency response cuts off abruptly at 22kHz. ADATs were the industry standard from the early 90's to the early 2000's for digital multitrack - they were 8 discrete channels, and first generation models were 16bit/48kHz and later models were 20bit and selectable 44.1/48kHz. I obviously don't have any conclusive proof, but I believe the 22kHz frequency cutoff makes it most likely this is a 20 bit/44.1kHz ADAT transfer - perhaps this was done initially with a view towards being a source for a DTS CD (which are 44.1/20bit) release that never happened. I just can't see them newly digitizing the master tape at 44.1kHz with SACD release in mind. Here's the spectral analysis:

View attachment 16945

So to sum up:

Front channels out of phase (accounts for my bass issues)
Sourced from a 44.1kHz master (accounts for some complaints about 'average' fidelity)
If you're re-authoring this in PCM with corrected phase, you can delete the center channel as it's just a mono sum of the front left & right channels

13 year old mystery solved. Feeling mildly smug today. :phones

Thanks so much for this. After reading this, I loaded it in Audacity and sure enough, the L, R, C channels were in phase together, but both surrounds and the sub (.1) were also in phase together, but the front three, and the surrounds and sub were out of phase with each other. That's just crazy. How's something like that happen in a professional studio? Anyway, after spending 3 hours figuring out how to fix this, it sounds much more focused and the bass is more defined and meaty. Thanks!
 
Almost a year after the last entry in this particular poll, but I just purchased this (based on the sage advice of the wonderful members of QQ) from CDJapan and it arrived two days ago. Without reservation, this is my first vote of 10 in these polls.

The sonics on this puppy are out-of-this world good. Each instrument is so well delineated and clearly captured that it feels like the players are right in the room with you. I'm a Beck fan from Truth onward and this bold revolutionary album of his has certainly never sounded better. Particular mention needs to be made regarding the players Jeff surrounded himself with for this effort.

Max Middleton had already been featured on the prior the Jeff Beck Group releases, but mostly on piano. Here his main instruments are the Fender Rhodes and the Clavinet, and they really feature well in the enhanced SACD sound field. Not sure how Beck chose Phil Chenn and Richard Bailey as the rhythm section, but WOW! Phil's bass work and sound is outstanding throughout, but it's Mr. Bailey that seems to be the real beneficiary of the improved sonics at play here. Every drum in his kit sounds absolutely real and present. Richards playing and technique are superlative throughout - making the fact that he was only 18 years old at the time of the recording even more amazing! I'll never understand how a guy that young could already rival the unrivaled Billy Cobham, but I'm just glad this performance was captured for posterity's sake!

I can't listen to this incredible SACD enough and I'm 100% certain it will serve as one of my preferred demo discs moving forward.
 
So's... having listened to the AP version (and having never heard the previous two), sounds to me like there is plenty of bass and plenty of rears activity.
Sound is more or less consistent throughout the album. I don't hear any obvious phasing. Now, due to differences in bass-management and other configuration nuances, YMMV. :mad:@:

The phase issue only affects the surround mix. And the AP version *corrected* the issue, so you won't hear any 'obvious phasing' on that surround mix. (Though from what I recall they only corrected the major issue - inverted phase of front vs rear -- and not a minor issue -- inverted phase of center vs rear)
 
Almost a year after the last entry in this particular poll, but I just purchased this (based on the sage advice of the wonderful members of QQ) from CDJapan and it arrived two days ago. Without reservation, this is my first vote of 10 in these polls.

The sonics on this puppy are out-of-this world good. Each instrument is so well delineated and clearly captured that it feels like the players are right in the room with you. I'm a Beck fan from Truth onward and this bold revolutionary album of his has certainly never sounded better. Particular mention needs to be made regarding the players Jeff surrounded himself with for this effort.

Max Middleton had already been featured on the prior the Jeff Beck Group releases, but mostly on piano. Here his main instruments are the Fender Rhodes and the Clavinet, and they really feature well in the enhanced SACD sound field. Not sure how Beck chose Phil Chenn and Richard Bailey as the rhythm section, but WOW! Phil's bass work and sound is outstanding throughout, but it's Mr. Bailey that seems to be the real beneficiary of the improved sonics at play here. Every drum in his kit sounds absolutely real and present. Richards playing and technique are superlative throughout - making the fact that he was only 18 years old at the time of the recording even more amazing! I'll never understand how a guy that young could already rival the unrivaled Billy Cobham, but I'm just glad this performance was captured for posterity's sake!

I can't listen to this incredible SACD enough and I'm 100% certain it will serve as one of my preferred demo discs moving forward.


If you're referring to the Sony Japan SACD, the surround mix on that one still has the out of phase issue described in this thread.
 
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