HiRez Poll Beck - SEA CHANGE [DVD-A/SACD/BluRay Audio]

[4-earredwonder]

See posts #75 and #76 here

Gaucho DVD-A always sounded great to me

Just read Steelydave's analysis but like yourself, I have always considered the MLP DVD~A 5.1 of Gaucho definitive. Also had the great sounding [but in comparison lackluster to the DVD~A] DTS~RBCD of Gaucho. I couldn't imagine it sounding better.

 

[fredblue]

The MLP DVD~A of Gaucho was released prior to the mch SACD....and before MCA even switched their allegiance from DVD~A to SACD so are you sure the DVD~A was indeed sourced from the DSD master? Rather confusing.

not so wrt Gaucho, Ralph-o, the Surround SACD-o came out before the DVD-Audio.

 

[fredblue]

I had read elsewhere in the forum that the fronts are phase inverted on the BD-A, which explains some sound difference. Like Steely Dan's Gaucho, both the BD-A and DVD-A are sourced from PCM conversions of the SACD DSD master, rather than using the original PCM files. Doubt anyone could hear the difference, but it is sort of puzzling the Universal made extra work for themselves instead of using the readily available PCM master.

I have the SACD (I won a bid for $5 last year, perhaps one of the greatest steals in all my years of surround collecting) and it sounds wonderful.

yes indeedy, a wee while back yours truly posted @QQ having pulled apart the Surround SACD, DVD-A and HFPA BD releases of Sea Change and discovered upon looking at waveformshit, among several things, that the DVD-A and MCh SACD were so very close to one another that any differences would be imperceptible and that the Front channels on the HFPA BD had some phase inversion relative to the Fronts on both the DVD-A & MCh SACD.

 

[fredblue]

Just read Steelydave's analysis but like yourself, I have always considered the MLP DVD~A 5.1 of Gaucho definitive. Also had the great sounding [but in comparison lackluster to the DVD~A] DTS~RBCD of Gaucho. I couldn't imagine it sounding better.

to me its all about the mix mix and the surround is more active and discrete on the DTS CD than the subsequent Surround SACD/DVD-A, so now when i chase the 5.1 dragon i turn to the DTS CD cherry wine, when I'm in a Gaucho 5.1 mood, i'm out my mind!

 

[4-earredwonder]

not so wrt Gaucho, Ralph-o, the Surround SACD-o came out before the DVD-Audio.

Are you sure, Adam? I distinctly remember that MCA's earliest surround releases were all DVD~A before their switch to SACD. I first started collecting DVD~A and remember feeling a sense of betrayal when MCA made that switch. Why would MCA release a DVD~A of Gaucho when they switched their allegiances to SACD? Does not compute! I also remember buying GBYBR on DVD~A [with the DVD] FIRST and then purchasing it on SACD.

 

[fredblue]

Are you sure, Adam? I distinctly remember that MCA's earliest surround releases were all DVD~A before their switch to SACD. I first started collecting DVD~A and remember feeling a sense of betrayal when MCA made that switch. Why would MCA release a DVD~A of Gaucho when they switched their allegiances to SACD? Does not compute! I also remember buying GBYBR on DVD~A [with the DVD] FIRST and then purchasing it on SACD.

115.1% sure, Ralphgaucheeo!

Gaucho 5.1 release chronology thus;

1998 : DTS CD,
2003 : Surround SACD,
2004 : DVD Audio.

also,
GYBR 5.1;
2 x SACDs = 2003,
DVD-A = 2004,
HFPA BD = 2014.

 

[4-earredwonder]

115.1% sure, Ralphgaucheeo!

Gaucho 5.1 release chronology thus;

1998 : DTS CD,
2003 : Surround SACD,
2004 : DVD Audio.

also,
GYBR 5.1;
2 x SACDs = 2003,
DVD-A = 2004,
HFPA BD = 2014.

So, in other words, MCA was releasing both DVD~A and SACDs concurrently ....... just doesn't make sense. I know once RCA [before the SONY takeover] was releasing DVD~A product and then switched to SACD and never released a DVD~A again [oh, yes, that dualdisc of In Your Honor with the 2nd Grohl acoustic sides/ES remixes].

Smacks of the Beta vs. VHS controversy. Oh, those dreadful format Wars. And who suffers .... the consumer.

 

[sjcorne]

So, in other words, MCA was releasing both DVD~A and SACDs concurrently ....... just doesn't make sense.

I don't think Universal ever really settled on a format, they even did some SACD/DVD-A/DTS-CD releases (Gaucho, The Globe Sessions) and DVD-A/DTS-CD (Sting's Brand New Day, Vince Gill, etc).

Blu-Ray seems to be their thing these days, with an unfortunate trend toward box sets (GnR, Idlewild South, Imagine). So where's my Pretzel Logic box then?

 

[fredblue]

So, in other words, MCA was releasing both DVD~A and SACDs concurrently ....... just doesn't make sense. I know once RCA [before the SONY takeover] was releasing DVD~A product and then switched to SACD and never released a DVD~A again [oh, yes, that dualdisc of In Your Honor with the 2nd Grohl acoustic sides/ES remixes].

by then MCA = Universal.. and afaik Universal released some MCh titles on SACD first and DVD-A subsequently (112/Hot & Wet, Musiq/Soulstar, Marvin Gaye/Lets Get It On, EJ/GYBR..) and other titles were like Gaucho, i.e. DTS CD > SACD > DVD-A (George Strait/Honkytonkville, Marvin Gaye Forever Yours/Collection, Vince Gill/High Lonesome Sound,..)

 

[4-earredwonder]

by then MCA = Universal and afaik Universal released some MCh titles on SACD first and DVD-A subsequent (112/Hot & Wet, Musiq/Soulstar, EJ/GYBR..) and other titles were like Gaucho, i.e. DTS CD > SACD > DVD-A (George Strait/Honkytonkville, Vince Gill/High Lonesome Sound,..)

I'm still confused. All I know is that I knew I had to embrace SACD as soon as Universal announced the EJ titles in 5.1 among other coveted 5.1 releases and left the DVD~A camp sucking their thumbs.

And this at a time when SONY, THE inventor of the SACD, abandoned SACD and released those RCA Living Stereo Titles as a 'consolation' prize.

 

[fredblue]

I'm still confused. All I know is that I knew I had to embrace SACD as soon as Universal announced the EJ titles in 5.1 among other coveted 5.1 releases and left the DVD~A camp sucking their thumbs.

you had to embrace SACD because by the time the post-GYBR 5.1 EJs (of S/T, TC, MATW, HC, CFATBDC) came out UMe had gone briefly solely SACD with no DVD-A alternative until DualDisc came along with UMe offering 5.1's in DVD-A form again, albeit on DualDisc (Lee Ann Womack/G.Hits, Sheryl Crow/Globe Sessions, Diane Krall/Girl In Other Room,..).

 

[4-earredwonder]

you had to embrace SACD because by the time the post-GYBR 5.1 EJs (of S/T, TC, MATW, HC, CFATBDC) came out UMe had gone briefly solely SACD with no DVD-A alternative until DualDisc came along (Lee Ann Womack, Sheryl Crow, Dianne Krall,,.)

And then we 'briefly' embraced BD~A with that 'momentous' Universal BD~A LAUNCH which fizzled out faster than beer gone flat at a local pub!

Oh, the perils of being a QUADoPHILE. Thankfully, Dutton~Vocalion to the rescue! Bless the British! Adam, were you an altar boy?

 

[fredblue]

ps.
apologies in advance, i'm conscious little to none of this is directly relevant to the QQ Poll title in question (Beck's Sea Change), plus i'm pretty sozzled so may not be conscious much longer.. so i'm gonna say good night, much love and all that jazz and see you at sunrise or thereabouts! mwah!

 

[edisonbaggins]

This is all rather intriguing, though it's unfortunate that my question resulted in many confusing answers.
Regarding Sea Change, it seems that at least one member prefers the BD to the SACD. Meanwhile, it seems the BD features phase inversion, so there's a chance I'll prefer the DVD-A I just acquired.
No luck finding an SACD copy at a sane price yet.

 

[himey]

This is all rather intriguing, though it's unfortunate that my question resulted in many confusing answers.
Regarding Sea Change, it seems that at least one member prefers the BD to the SACD. Meanwhile, it seems the BD features phase inversion, so there's a chance I'll prefer the DVD-A I just acquired.
No luck finding an SACD copy at a sane price yet.

The fact that you didn't get a definitive answer should actually answer your question.

Comparing them is just splitting hairs. The production of this release is second to none and that is obvious on any format.

 

[markshan]

Just picked up the DVD-A, to compare to the BD-A. Anybody ever compared all 3 versions? If so, is there a clear winner? Or do all masterings sound equally good?
Asking because the SACD vs. the BD-A evidently doesn't sound the same for some releases (e.g. Yellow Brick Road).

To my ears the BD sounds much better than the DVD-A, and for the record I didn't want it to because I like the slideshow on the DVD-A, but it does. The DVD-A is great but the BD is even better.

 

[markshan]

The fact that you didn't get a definitive answer should actually answer your question.

Comparing them is just splitting hairs. The production of this release is second to none and that is obvious on any format.

DuncanS and I gave definitive answers. Get the Blu, you won't be sorry.

 

[markshan]

This is all rather intriguing, though it's unfortunate that my question resulted in many confusing answers.
Regarding Sea Change, it seems that at least one member prefers the BD to the SACD. Meanwhile, it seems the BD features phase inversion, so there's a chance I'll prefer the DVD-A I just acquired.
No luck finding an SACD copy at a sane price yet.

From what I understand, the BD is a correction of the phase which was incorrect on the earlier releases. FWIW, I didn't know that when I listened and decided the Blu sounded better. I found that out later. Don't bother with the SACD. Incorrect phase and no slide show.

 

[himey]

DuncanS and I gave definitive answers. Get the Blu, you won't be sorry.

I have the SACD and Blu-ray, now that I rarely listen to discs, I listen to the ripped Blu-ray. Absolutely nothing wrong with the SACD, it sounds excellent too.

 

[HomerJAU]

I’ve got the SACD and the BDA. I can’t say I noticed any difference after I played the BDA and SACD to compare.

The BDA was one of the early BDA releases. Now I only play the BDA conversion to FLAC (192/24) as I only have one version on my server. I generally only keep one version of an album on my server once I’ve listened and select the better version (if there’s a difference) or the PCM conversion over SACD if they’re appear to be the same.

Now days I don’t bother buying a rerelease album unless feedback on QQ points to a remix or remaster that offers improvements on a favourite.