HiRez Poll Biggs, E. Power - BACH FOUR TOCCATAS AND FUGUES [SACD]

[oxforddickie]

Since I can't play SACD-R or multi-channel FLAC's, how long till the DVD-A/V becomes available?

It's available now, and if you use 'JDownloader' it is available as a 'free premium' download for a while

OD

 

[wanners]

Since I can't play SACD-R or multi-channel FLAC's, how long till the DVD-A/V becomes available?

What is SACD-R?

FYI VLC Media player can play 5.1 flacs if you can export from your computer to a capable receiver.

 

[oxforddickie]

Not sure if it can be said openly, but for a clue, go to my blog.............

OD

 

[LizardKing]

very cheap....

 

[oxforddickie]

As cheap as cheap can be.........

OD

 

[fredblue]

a question for QQ members who have the Quad of this: Are the rears as quiet on the Q8 of this Quad (*) as they are on this SACD?
also how much ambience & reverberation of the Cathedral it was recorded in is present in the original Quad?

(*relative to the fronts, I mean..)

I've always been impressed by this disc but when you start to pick it apart and scrutinise what is going on in each channel, there's nowhere near as much happening in the rears as in the fronts - and I'm not even sure how discrete some of that rear channel activity is.. which is not what I was expecting.

the front to back balance seems better in the Surround presentation of the E Power Biggs Rheinberger Concertos Quad SACD which Dutton Vocalion have recently released, imho..
despite the fact that on that one there's a whole orchestra competing for your attention with Ernie's organ, whereas here you'd think with an organ in each channel it'd be easier to get a more even spread around all 4 speakers with a Quad mix of these performances in the Cathedral at Freiburg.. hmm..

fwiw, I tried out all the other Sony Single Layer Classical SACDs that were previously released as Quads that I could find
(they are; Bartok Concerto For Orchestra & Miraculous Mandarin conducted by Boulez.. Holst Planets & Britten Four Sea Interludes - Bernstein... Ravel La Valse/Mother Goose conducted by Boulez... Tchaikovsky Symphony No.4 - Bernstein.. Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez / Villa Lobos: Concerto For Guitar & Small Orchestra - John Williams)
..and none of them were very Quad-y.. which similarly was not what I was expecting.

is it possible the team who worked on these Surround SACDs for Sony back then (Engineer Richard King and Producer Louise De La Fuente was the duo that did all but the Boulez; Ravel which was Produced by Thomas Z.Shepard & Engineered by Charles Harbutt) mucked about with the channel balance and wrecked the original Quad, or just used the Stereo and upmixed it? (in some cases that is what it sounds like).

back to this SACD and I have to say it's a shame they added that faux centre channel while they were at it.. it seems to be virtually as loud as the rears at times (its not as loud as the fronts but still found it a borderline distraction on occasion) and to me added nothing to the mix.

if I'd rated this before checking out the individual channels I'd have given it a high score, sound quality is good, its a bit louder than the mastering on the Vocalion E Power Biggs / Hamburglar SACD but still impressive.. as it is I'm going to have to abstain until I can check out and compare this with the Quad from Q8 because right now I'm kinda left wondering if the people who transferred this to SACD didn't in fact fiddle fart about with it.

 

[surroundophile]

"(they are; Bartok Concerto For Orchestra. It's a known fact that the Bartok, in it's Quad format, had discreet surrounds, but the SACD was remixed to ambient. For that reason I sold mine years ago, but still listen to my SQ and Q8 versions. The Four Toccatas however wasn't very discreet, in either the Q8 or SQ versions (Tate or Involve decoded), I never hear an organ discreetly in the rears. I never understood this, since it was advertised as being discreet.

 

[ubertrout]

a question for QQ members who have the Quad of this: Are the rears as quiet on the Q8 of this Quad (*) as they are on this SACD?
also how much ambience & reverberation of the Cathedral it was recorded in is present in the original Quad?

(*relative to the fronts, I mean..)

I've always been impressed by this disc but when you start to pick it apart and scrutinise what is going on in each channel, there's nowhere near as much happening in the rears as in the fronts - and I'm not even sure how discrete some of that rear channel activity is.. which is not what I was expecting.

the front to back balance seems better in the Surround presentation of the E Power Biggs Rheinberger Concertos Quad SACD which Dutton Vocalion have recently released, imho..
despite the fact that on that one there's a whole orchestra competing for your attention with Ernie's organ, whereas here you'd think with an organ in each channel it'd be easier to get a more even spread around all 4 speakers with a Quad mix of these performances in the Cathedral at Freiburg.. hmm..

fwiw, I tried out all the other Sony Single Layer Classical SACDs that were previously released as Quads that I could find
(they are; Bartok Concerto For Orchestra & Miraculous Mandarin conducted by Boulez.. Holst Planets & Britten Four Sea Interludes - Bernstein... Ravel La Valse/Mother Goose conducted by Boulez... Tchaikovsky Symphony No.4 - Bernstein.. Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez / Villa Lobos: Concerto For Guitar & Small Orchestra - John Williams)
..and none of them were very Quad-y.. which similarly was not what I was expecting.

is it possible the team who worked on these Surround SACDs for Sony back then (Engineer Richard King and Producer Louise De La Fuente was the duo that did all but the Boulez; Ravel which was Produced by Thomas Z.Shepard & Engineered by Charles Harbutt) mucked about with the channel balance and wrecked the original Quad, or just used the Stereo and upmixed it? (in some cases that is what it sounds like).

back to this SACD and I have to say it's a shame they added that faux centre channel while they were at it.. it seems to be virtually as loud as the rears at times (its not as loud as the fronts but still found it a borderline distraction on occasion) and to me added nothing to the mix.

if I'd rated this before checking out the individual channels I'd have given it a high score, sound quality is good, its a bit louder than the mastering on the Vocalion E Power Biggs / Hamburglar SACD but still impressive.. as it is I'm going to have to abstain until I can check out and compare this with the Quad from Q8 because right now I'm kinda left wondering if the people who transferred this to SACD didn't in fact fiddle fart about with it.

The general consensus is that Sony did a stereo upmix on at least some of these discs. I'll confess that I tend to be a fairly passive listener and don't always notice if something is ambient or an upmix from stereo, but in a number of these Sony discs the change was destructive because the original mix was extremely discrete - for instance the organ in the rear channels in the Holst is no longer present in the mix at all as far as I can tell. Likewise for the Bartok the cover famously shows the quad mix they used, and while Sony kept the cover, they did an upmix of the stereo instead of transferring the quad mix.

There's long been some skepticism about the other MCH Sony titles, but not a lot of analysis. This is doubly true of the Biggs/Bach disc, which most people don't have (I couldn't resist and sold my copy for almost $200). I also think you're right and that's all there is among the early Sony SACDs of quad recordings re-released; most everything else they released in surround (once again, not really that much) was recorded in 3-channel and never released in quad.

Curious to see what else you find.

 

[skherbeck]

This is one powerful demo disc. This makes my system sound sooo good... and I'm basically using an entry-level surround set-up... the sound is phenomenal and the low notes really vibrate through your bones. The musicianship is mesmerizing; how the hell does Mr. Biggs play 4 organs so well and simlutaneously? Very discrete with one organ in each corner. This must be played loud to fully appreciate it. 10.

 

[John Svensson]

Biggs versus Fox, the battle of the quad organs.

 

[fredblue]

This is one powerful demo disc. This makes my system sound sooo good... and I'm basically using an entry-level surround set-up... the sound is phenomenal and the low notes really vibrate through your bones. The musicianship is mesmerizing; how the hell does Mr. Biggs play 4 organs so well and simlutaneously? Very discrete with one organ in each corner. This must be played loud to fully appreciate it. 10.

the Munster of Freiburg has 4 Cathedral Organs stratgeically arranged throughout the length of the building. Each organ is playable from its console. However, there is a fifth console in a central location that allows the organist to play all 4 organs simultaneously.

 

[dobyblue]

I just managed to acquire this SACD and it comes on the heels of finally adding a second subwoofer to my system. I have had a Paradigm Servo 15v2 since Dec. 2006 and last week added a Paradigm Servo 15a. Once I got the volume dialed in it wasn't immediately a "holy smokes" on they first bit of material I listened to, but when I loaded up "I Grieve" from the only surround SACD Peter Gabriel did and then "Italian Restaurant" from Billy Joel's The Stranger SACD...I knew I'd moved into the next level of subsonic nirvana.

Cannot wait to give this SACD a spin now that I have a room and system which will effortlessly reproduce that 16.4Hz low pedal.

 

[genesplitter]

I'd love to listen to this recording on my modest 5.1 system with dual DIY 15-inch subwoofers (each sub placed on opposite sides of the room to minimize room modes), but this is a very difficult recording to find and $600 is just too rich. I have access to the entire University of California library so I requested a few of Biggs LP's instead.

 

[sbrom]

$600! :yikes

Occasionally you'll see this SACD at somewhat more reasonable prices, say the low 100's. That's still a ton of money!

Here's an example on Discogs around $150. Still too rich for my budget.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/6438559?ev=rb

I'd love to listen to this recording on my modest 5.1 system with dual DIY 15-inch subwoofers (each sub placed on opposite sides of the room to minimize room modes), but this is a very difficult recording to find and $600 is just too rich. I have access to the entire University of California library so I requested a few of Biggs LP's instead.

 

[Eggplant]

I actually bought this 15 years ago at Best Buy for like $20.

Said bought it.
Did not say got it.

Turns out, some lowlife dirtbag had bought it, replaced the SACD with a worthless computer disc, resealed it and returned it. Best Buy didn't believe my story and refused to allow it to be returned. I just left it there and walked out.

That was my first time learning what a jerkoff joint Best Buy was.
In later years there would be many more.

 

[ubertrout]

I'd love to listen to this recording on my modest 5.1 system with dual DIY 15-inch subwoofers (each sub placed on opposite sides of the room to minimize room modes), but this is a very difficult recording to find and $600 is just too rich. I have access to the entire University of California library so I requested a few of Biggs LP's instead.



View attachment 29966

I sold my copy for $180. In truth I listed it at that price almost as a lark, figuring I'd give it some more listens and it would wait a long time for a buyer. Instead it sold in less than 2 weeks.

Recently I think the actual price has gone down - I've seen asks in the low hundreds or high double digits that seemed to not find a buyer. But people are entitled to ask for whatever they want - maybe they have the same strategy as I had - "if someone actually wants to pay me that..."

 

[Cheezmo]

I sold my copy for $180. In truth I listed it at that price almost as a lark, figuring I'd give it some more listens and it would wait a long time for a buyer. Instead it sold in less than 2 weeks.

Recently I think the actual price has gone down - I've seen asks in the low hundreds or high double digits that seemed to not find a buyer. But people are entitled to ask for whatever they want - maybe they have the same strategy as I had - "if someone actually wants to pay me that..."

I got one on eBay a couple of months ago for $103.

 

[mathehans]

One of the best in my collection. Bach certainly knew how to inspire - this one will put the fear of the Lord in you.

For a musician, the challenge is to make clear and "followable" the "mental line" as conceived by Bach. That was Glenn Gould's contribution on the Goldberg Concertos. Biggs does it here too.

Hello, can you give me other examples of outstanding BACH-recordings ? - Thank you very much !

 

[gene_stl]

One of the (numerous) things I love about QQ, is threads like this from way before I got here, that have great discs to listen to. and hunt for.

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

Hello, can you give me other examples of outstanding BACH-recordings ? - Thank you very much !

https://www.nativedsd.com/product/euddr1602-the-cello-suites-guitar/