Dual Disc Bjork Surrounded Box Set

[neil wilkes]

Now I need to figure out what my DTS decoders can do with 96kHz/24-bit DTS. As long as I have been involved with these various formats, advanced resolution has not been consistent at all, so I feel certain there is no rule restricting advanced resolution advertising to DVD-A or 96/24 LPCM. My DTS decoders are a Pioneer DV-588A, Yamaha RX-V2300, and Yamaha HTR-5490, anybody know what I will get from the DTS streams? I am going to try to find the specifications but I don't recall ever having 96/24 DTS on any disc. In theory it sounds great to me, so I am excited about this set.

Chris

Chris, you'll have to call the makers.
DTS 24/96 - like DTS-HD - will still always decode properly in all DTS decoders as the ES and extended frequency response is all in the extensions. All streams will still contain the 24/48 payload in the core stream, with additional channels, extended frequency response or lossless information in the extensions.
Your decoder will output the highest quality it can from the stream.
For example.
If your decoder cannot decode the 96KHz extensions, you'll still get 24/48 payload with no Sample Rate Conversion being done.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Chris, you'll have to call the makers.

Ya, I can't tell for certain from reading the specifications. The DV-588A seems to indicate it will utilize 96/24 and therefore decode and output the higher resolution analog sound. At the same time it indicates it will down convert any protected 96/24 streams for output over the digital connection. The Yamaha receivers both seem to indicate they can decode and use the higher frequency to full advantage. Here is the language puzzling me regarding the DV-588A:

"If a DVD Video disc with 96kHz sampling rate is copy-protected, the unit will down-convert the sampling frequency to 48kHz before passing the signal through the digital outputs."

If my DVD players connected to my Yamaha receivers do the same, then the higher frequency signal never makes it to the connected decoders. I am of course assuming the Bjork DVD-V set uses the offending copy protection. I had been assuming I didn't care if my players decoded DTS or not since my amplifiers all did. Now I am not so sure. Of course it is all still thereotical since I don't know if I can tell any difference between 96/24 DTS and 48/24 DTS. This silly hobby can be a pain at times. I may be the only nutcase with three complete surround systems as soon as I get the one in my girlfriend's house up and running. Complete in that I can play DVD-A, SACD, DTS, DD5.1, D-VHS, DirecTV, and digital OTA in all three. I gave up being able to play Quad 8, open reel quad, and LP in my systems a long time ago.

Chris

 

[Guy Robinson]

"If a DVD Video disc with 96kHz sampling rate is copy-protected, the unit will down-convert the sampling frequency to 48kHz before passing the signal through the digital outputs."
Chris

What that means is that a copy protected DVD-A will not pass digitally into your receiver at 96 khz. It gets downconverted.

 

[neil wilkes]

Guy, that's not quite right!
What happens with these types is that if the output is decoded in the player, and output digitally, you get cut back to 48KHz.
If Chris outputs the raw DTS stream to his amplifier with it's decoder, then the amplifier's decoder will decode to PCM internally, and as long as it is 96/24 capable, (In it's DTS decoder of course) he will get 24/96 output as the payload stream.
That DVD-Video Copy Protection mentioned applies to audio output as PCM from the player via digital outputs. It is bypassed if the player has analogue out. (Unless the player is one of those that Downsamples to 48KHz and/or truncates to 16 bits internally)

The Copy Protection mentioned does not apply to DVD-A - unless you are trying to copy the streams, and then the CPPM settings come into play. There are 4 possibilities when copying DVD-A digitally, if it is allowed at all:
1 - CD Quality, 2 channel
2 - CD Quality, Multichannel
3 - Full Quality, 2 channel
4 - Full Quality, Multichannel
5 - No Copying Permitted at all.

It gets seriously confusing sometimes.

 

[neil wilkes]

Ya, I can't tell for certain from reading the specifications. The DV-588A seems to indicate it will utilize 96/24 and therefore decode and output the higher resolution analog sound. At the same time it indicates it will down convert any protected 96/24 streams for output over the digital connection. The Yamaha receivers both seem to indicate they can decode and use the higher frequency to full advantage. Here is the language puzzling me regarding the DV-588A:

"If a DVD Video disc with 96kHz sampling rate is copy-protected, the unit will down-convert the sampling frequency to 48kHz before passing the signal through the digital outputs."

This applies to audio decoded internally in the DVD player. It will not apply to a raw bitstream output to your amplifier.
Additionally, if your player can output the 6 analogue streams to the amplifier, and decode the DTS 96/24 internally, then it will pass unaltered 24/96 PCM through the analogue interconnects.

If my DVD players connected to my Yamaha receivers do the same, then the higher frequency signal never makes it to the connected decoders. I am of course assuming the Bjork DVD-V set uses the offending copy protection. I had been assuming I didn't care if my players decoded DTS or not since my amplifiers all did. Now I am not so sure. Of course it is all still thereotical since I don't know if I can tell any difference between 96/24 DTS and 48/24 DTS. This silly hobby can be a pain at times. I may be the only nutcase with three complete surround systems as soon as I get the one in my girlfriend's house up and running. Complete in that I can play DVD-A, SACD, DTS, DD5.1, D-VHS, DirecTV, and digital OTA in all three. I gave up being able to play Quad 8, open reel quad, and LP in my systems a long time ago.

Chris

The raw signal will make it - intact - to the amplifier.
And for what it's worth, we now have 3 surround systems here. Not quite as complex as yours as only one can output from the TV.
I may try to stream it from the TV/Satellite into the studio next though. That might be fun.
I do still have a Quad Reel machine all hooked up though.
A Pain? Possibly.
Lots of fun & well worth it when it all works correctly?
Definitely!

 

[Chris Gerhard]

What that means is that a copy protected DVD-A will not pass digitally into your receiver at 96 khz. It gets downconverted.

It doesn't state DVD-A, that was an exact quote from the site I was reading. It states DVD-V so you think it is probably just a misprint. The only way to listen to DVD-A MLP with the player is by using the analog connections. I believe the player does output 48kHz stereo PCM over the digital connection with DVD-A, but I don't think that has anything to do with copy protection, I think it does the same with DVD-A's without copy protection. Probably the only way to tell for certain is to play 96kHz/24-bit DTS with my various systems and see what happens. It is no wonder the average consumer is confused by DVD-A,96kHz, 24-bit, 16-bit, 48kHz, etc, etc. If the audio junkies and player manuals can't get it right, how can they hope to understand?

Chris

 

[Guy Robinson]

Neil,
Thanks for the clarification.

I try to keep things simple by decoding everything except Dolby and stereo PCM in my player and passing that via the 6 analogue connectors. Dolby and PCM stereo go via the digital to my receiver. I have found through experimentation that it sounds better that way for those formats. I know my player and my receiver does not do 24/96 DTS so I am not even worried about those. Yet.............

 

[Felix E. Martinez]

Man, I'm glad I got the DVD-A of Vespertine, while it's still available...unbelievable...what were they thinking?

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I assumed this isn't coming anytime soon in a high resolution format and my only other 96kHz/24-bit DTS disc sounded great to me so I have ordered this box set. With a 20,000 allocation for the US, this set must be a pretty big seller for "advanced resolution" surround. These will be first recordings by her in any format and since her music was rarely played on any stations I listen to, I guess I am taking a chance that I am going to like it all. The Talking Heads brick would have been a safer bet for me since I know I like their music and it is high resolution surround but I can only afford one now and decided to take a chance on this one.

Chris

 

[daved64]

I assumed this isn't coming anytime soon in a high resolution format and my only other 96kHz/24-bit DTS disc sounded great to me so I have ordered this box set. With a 20,000 allocation for the US, this set must be a pretty big seller for "advanced resolution" surround. These will be first recordings by her in any format and since her music was rarely played on any stations I listen to, I guess I am taking a chance that I am going to like it all. The Talking Heads brick would have been a safer bet for me since I know I like their music and it is high resolution surround but I can only afford one now and decided to take a chance on this one.

Chris

Big gamble Chris. She is an aquired taste. Some of it might be a little odd for you if you don't know what she's like. I personally enjoy her music.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Big gamble Chris. She is an aquired taste. Some of it might be a little odd for you if you don't know what she's like. I personally enjoy her music.

Ya, I am having second thoughts. I love female vocalists but more traditional jazz singers like Diana Krall, Ella Fitzgerald, and Sarah Vaughan or pop vocalists like Dusty Springfield and Linda Ronstadt are more to my tastes. Lucinda Williams is a favorite too. I bought a couple of CD's by Patricia Barber and she is a little out there for me, but I like her. This music will be something new for me and I understand she is more electronica than jazz but it is hard to place her in any category.

Chris

 

[Guy Robinson]

Big gamble Chris. She is an aquired taste. Some of it might be a little odd for you if you don't know what she's like. I personally enjoy her music.

Not to mention that the Talking Heads Brick is a killer.

 

[daved64]

Ya, I am having second thoughts. I love female vocalists but more traditional jazz singers like Diana Krall, Ella Fitzgerald, and Sarah Vaughan or pop vocalists like Dusty Springfield and Linda Ronstadt are more to my tastes. Lucinda Williams is a favorite too. I bought a couple of CD's by Patricia Barber and she is a little out there for me, but I like her. This music will be something new for me and I understand she is more electronica than jazz but it is hard to place her in any category.

Chris

Cancel the order ASAP. Your head will explode. Judging by your post, I think you'd run screaming from the room. Go to Bjork.com and play some samples.

 

[daved64]

Not to mention that the Talking Heads Brick is a killer.

Geez, I missed that part of the post......Chris....did you fall and hit your head? Get the friggin Brick!!!

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Geez, I missed that part of the post......Chris....did you fall and hit your head? Get the friggin Brick!!!

Ha, I guess I did and I can't cancel the order. I have the "Remain in Light" DualDisc and it is great. I am trying to get into some new music and just had a good feeling about Bjork since I have listened to some snippets at allmusic.com and I like Rhino for trying to keep surround alive. I will give the discs a chance, which one is likely to get me off to a good start?

Chris

 

[daved64]

Ha, I guess I did and I can't cancel the order. I have the "Remain in Light" DualDisc and it is great. I am trying to get into some new music and just had a good feeling about Bjork since I have listened to some snippets at allmusic.com and I like Rhino for trying to keep surround alive. I will give the discs a chance, which one is likely to get me off to a good start?

Chris

NOT Medulla!
I think most would say Post or Homogenic.

 

[Guy Robinson]

And Chris,
Keep in mind that if you aren't crazy about them you can always play them with your volume control set to off.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

And Chris,
Keep in mind that if you aren't crazy about them you can always play them with your volume control set to off.

Hey, good idea. Based on the prices I have been getting for used DVD-V's and CD's on eBay, I might as well do that or use them as coasters when I have company. The last few DVD-V's I have sold have gotten about $1 plus $4 shipping/handling while the Led Zepplin 2-disc CD compilation "Early Days and Latter Days" reached a whopping $1.13, auction 220013458374. The buyer was so happy, positive feedback was left before I even shipped it. I think I will start giving them as gifts or stocking stuffers instead.

Chris

 

[Guy Robinson]

I think I will start giving them as gifts or stocking stuffers instead.

Chris

Give me your address and I will send my stocking. Size 13 should be able to hold quite a few.

 

[neil wilkes]

NOT Medulla!
I think most would say Post or Homogenic.

I still think Medulla is awesome.
If you're new to Bjork though, Debut or Post is perhaps the most friendly offering.
But speaking personally, I think Medulla is probably my favourite - because it is so different!
If possible - grab the box set though. Once they are gone, they will not be repressed as a set, just individual titles.