HiRez Poll Black Sabbath - PARANOID [Blu-Ray Audio]

[MikeT]

Got this disc yesterday and listened today. Blown away. Stupendous mix and sound quality. (I do have the 3 disc set that has the DVD of the 4 channel mix as ripped from vinyl - but the BD is a whole different animal).

Anyway, I have yet to listen to the full stereo mix on this BD disc, but is possible the stereo mix is the stereo down-mix of the quad mix? I ask because when switching between quad and stereo (with the red and yellow remote buttons), the presentation is synced perfectly. In fact the duration of the stereo mix is exactly the same as the quad mix.

I am playing the J. Geils disc now, and the same thing - the stereo mix syncs perfectly with the quad mix and the time of both the quad and stereo presentation are of the same duration. On the Hoffman forum, Steve Woolard seems to say that the stereo mix is the "archived" stereo mix, which would lead one to believe that the stereo mixes on these discs are not the quad folded down to 2-channel.

What does anything think?

 

[JonUrban]

Got this disc yesterday and listened today. Blown away. Stupendous mix and sound quality. (I do have the 3 disc set that has the DVD of the 4 channel mix as ripped from vinyl - but the BD is a whole different animal).

Anyway, I have yet to listen to the full stereo mix on this BD disc, but is possible the stereo mix is the stereo down-mix of the quad mix? I ask because when switching between quad and stereo (with the red and yellow remote buttons), the presentation is synced perfectly. In fact the duration of the stereo mix is exactly the same as the quad mix.

I am playing the J. Geils disc now, and the same thing - the stereo mix syncs perfectly with the quad mix and the time of both the quad and stereo presentation are of the same duration. On the Hoffman forum, Steve Woolard seems to say that the stereo mix is the "archived" stereo mix, which would lead one to believe that the stereo mixes on these discs are not the quad folded down to 2-channel.

What does anything think?

There are two different streams on the discs. There is a stereo and quad and because they are equal in time duration, you can easily switch between the two, which I found very interesting and fun to do. You can compare the stereo and the quad on the fly like you never could do before. It's not a fold down conversion for sure. If you rip these discs you will see there is a separate stereo track there

 

[Klaus Rosenthal]

A few thoughts for the first listen of a familiar album. Packaging and value for the cost are great. $20 each for the bundle, can't complain there. The fidelity is good, supposedly from the original master tapes with no touch-ups needed. The mix is nice enough but it feels a bit reserved or limited in some way, like it's not reaching quads full potential, like a first draft. Still an improvement over the old DVD 5.1 mix. I vote a very respectable 8.

 

[kfbkfb]

8 for me, I have very little listening experience with audio only surround sound mixes (most of my surround sound listening is of movie soundtracks and fake surround sound).

aside:
Any Black Sabbath group members ever commented on the quad mix (if not, maybe send them a copy of the Rhino Blu-ray and ask them about it)?

edit:
I'm listening to the DTS core, not the DTS-HD soundtrack.


Kirk Bayne

 

[MikeMonaco]

Got mine today on July 4th from USPS (bonus since they were supposedly off today), listened twice so far...cranked it loud...definite 10.

 

[inspclouseau]

First impressions:

1. VERY crankable. Great 70s analog-style mastering, no harshness or brightness to my ears. Tight and punchy bass and drums.
2. I noticed some tambourine in War Pigs and Paranoid that I don't think are in the stereo mix at all, or are mixed very low.
3. Some other things that sounded different from the stereo mixes - the air raid siren in War Pigs and the guitar solo in Paranoid. Hard for me to tell if they are actually different or just tonally different.
4. Ozzy's vocals are mixed very low and distant, especially in War Pigs, like they are coming from a different room or something. It doesn't ruin it for me but I wish they boosted the vocals to make them more present and immediate. This is really my only nit-pick of the whole disc.
5. Love the panning in War Pigs. Drum breaks and guitars going from speaker to speaker.
6. Heavy use of the rear speakers throughout, especially the guitars. Hope your rear speakers are up to the task! This is definitely a mix that will favor those with 4 identical full-range speakers for the front and rears.

All-in-all, this is an awesome disc to have and this is will be my go-to version of this classic album from here on out.

Every point you made. Thankfully, our rear speakers handled the mix extremely well. Just needed the vocals up a bit. Voted a 9. I really wanted this one.. very glad we have it. Thank you Rhino! edit: and yes...it is 'VERY crankable'!

 

[marpow]

I voted 10.
What a great recording, essentially in any form of this release, iconic.
I listened to the 4.0 quad 2023 Blu Ray at high volume 86db. No ear fatigue and very enjoyable.
My listen was the rip played through JRiver, USB out to ExaSound DAC and analogue out to pre/pro.
Bass, was only via the large speakers.
I note this as , my first listen with all the new 4 Quadios was via the Blu Ray player HDMI out which I have set up with bass management and I was missing out on the great sound of the pure 4.0.
I also compared this to my legal copy of the 5.1, this 4.0 is a better listening experience even though I am a huge fan of 5.1 and ATMOS over 4.0 listening.
The standout on this new release is the sheer sonic power that comes at you, very intense and must be played loud.
There are very small/short studio talking at end of some tracks, almost like whispers, but you can catch them if your paying attention.
Glad I have it and will by my forever go to copy of the 7 variations I own.
I listened to the 2.0 also, and well, not the same, would never be my go to in rotation.

Please keep poll threads pure to your personal listening experience only.

 

[EricKalet]

10/10 NO DOUBT and what more can I say that has not been already been said. A feast for the ears and a revelation. Wrecks the 5.1 version from years ago.

 

[Quadmon]

I gave it a solid ten. Worth the wait, all 49 years and especially the last two months!

 

[dadregga]

A really lovely experience in quad.

So good to have this, finally.

 

[n8nagel]

I'm gonna have to listen to it again before giving this a rating, when nobody else is home. I do think that this mix was intended to be listened to at high volume because I also noticed that Ozzy's vocals in "War Pigs" were lower than I expected. Is this true to the original quad mix? My only reference for this album is a CD release of it, probably the first one ever done. The other thing that I noticed was that the drums were also less prominent than I expected, esp. on Iron Man. My expectation was for a loud, sharp drum sound and this mix is very heavy on guitar and bass. I also noticed a lot of the almost Enoch Light esque ping ponging (odd coincidence; I just stopped at a new-to-me record store on Saturday and picked up two more Enoch Light LPs, along with a pair of October Faction LPs, from a very nice young lady who seemed glad that I appreciated both), it's like they had this fun new quad tool to play with and they wanted to show it off. So it comes across much less like trying to recreate an experience of being in a certain spot in a studio or concert venue but instead create a whole new one that is "artificial" but lives in the mind of the engineer with artists and instruments moving around the room. Again, I'm assuming that this is true to the original release? (Given that I was born in 1974 and my parents never had quad, I've never even held a quad LP or tape of this album, much less listened to it. And I also find it a little hard to imagine my parents listening to a band called Black Sabbath.)

Overall I was somewhat disappointed, but I am also speculating that if listened to at "reference" levels it might be a completely different experience.

My current setup isn't the best, I'm using an Oppo 105 into a Denon AVR through HDMI, speakers are Phase Tech something or other fronts and old Dynaco A25 rears, not particularly optimal placing as the Dynacos are very close to the plane of the couch but my space won't allow them to be moved back into a better location. I could pull the couch forward for listening but it would have to be temporary.

I haven't listened to the stereo mix yet, so I have no opinion there. I didn't have a chance to start listening until after 7 PM last night so I moved on to the J. Geils and Alice Cooper instead and haven't even unwrapped the Starship yet.

 

[mrcond]

I'm gonna have to listen to it again before giving this a rating, when nobody else is home. I do think that this mix was intended to be listened to at high volume because I also noticed that Ozzy's vocals in "War Pigs" were lower than I expected. Is this true to the original quad mix? My only reference for this album is a CD release of it, probably the first one ever done. The other thing that I noticed was that the drums were also less prominent than I expected, esp. on Iron Man. My expectation was for a loud, sharp drum sound and this mix is very heavy on guitar and bass. I also noticed a lot of the almost Enoch Light esque ping ponging (odd coincidence; I just stopped at a new-to-me record store on Saturday and picked up two more Enoch Light LPs, along with a pair of October Faction LPs, from a very nice young lady who seemed glad that I appreciated both), it's like they had this fun new quad tool to play with and they wanted to show it off. So it comes across much less like trying to recreate an experience of being in a certain spot in a studio or concert venue but instead create a whole new one that is "artificial" but lives in the mind of the engineer with artists and instruments moving around the room. Again, I'm assuming that this is true to the original release? (Given that I was born in 1974 and my parents never had quad, I've never even held a quad LP or tape of this album, much less listened to it. And I also find it a little hard to imagine my parents listening to a band called Black Sabbath.)

Overall I was somewhat disappointed, but I am also speculating that if listened to at "reference" levels it might be a completely different experience.

My current setup isn't the best, I'm using an Oppo 105 into a Denon AVR through HDMI, speakers are Phase Tech something or other fronts and old Dynaco A25 rears, not particularly optimal placing as the Dynacos are very close to the plane of the couch but my space won't allow them to be moved back into a better location. I could pull the couch forward for listening but it would have to be temporary.

I haven't listened to the stereo mix yet, so I have no opinion there. I didn't have a chance to start listening until after 7 PM last night so I moved on to the J. Geils and Alice Cooper instead and haven't even unwrapped the Starship yet.

Yes, play it loud. However, Ozzy's vocals will still be comparitively lower in the mix on War Pigs than the stereo that everyone is used to, that is just how they decided to mix it.

I found the drums to be nice and punchy and was satisfied with that aspect of it.

As for the ping-ponging, many people prefer it that way. It just comes down to personal taste. To confirm, this is the same mix as the original quad, but now in better sound quality than any previous version.

 

[n8nagel]

Yes, play it loud. However, Ozzy's vocals will still be comparitively lower in the mix on War Pigs than the stereo that everyone is used to, that is just how they decided to mix it.

I found the drums to be nice and punchy and was satisfied with that aspect of it.

As for the ping-ponging, many people prefer it that way. It just comes down to personal taste. To confirm, this is the same mix as the original quad, but now in better sound quality than any previous version.

Fair enough. Believe me, with nobody else around, I would be listening loud, but this one is a bit extreme... if you didn't know all the lyrics already, you'd HAVE to crank it up. Or maybe that was the intention? I didn't have a problem with the actual sound of the drums, it's just that again, the mix that I'm used to hearing they are much more forward and in your face. And if this is true to the original quad mix, I certainly can't fault Rhino for releasing it this way. Certainly a great nugget that I wouldn't really have the ability to hear any other way, short of lucking into the original media that happened to still be playable.

 

[Matt Wilson]

Of the four recent quadio releases, this is easily the best album, but unlike what my esteemed colleagues here are saying, I'm not sure it's the best surround mix. A solid 9 for sure - but for some reason it's not blowing me away enough for that extra push to 10. Still an awesome display of '70s quad goodness though.

 

[mandrix]

Every one has posted all the points, so I won't go too deep. I was a little surprised with Ozzy's vocal panning at first, then quickly grew used to it.
As to Ozzy's vocals being too low...well, it doesn't come off that way to me, that is just seems to fit somehow.
The clarity of sound on this disc is just amazing. I don't know if this was ever digitized way back, but if they pulled this off tape I just say, wow!

An absolute, no doubt in my mind, as close to a 10 as anything can be. So a 10 vote from moi. I bought the bundle but this is the best of the lot for me.
I can for sure match @GOS enthusiasm for this release...and that's saying a lot!

I agree with the post about having 4 matched corner speakers. Works for me!

 

[Wagonmaster_91]

I had my first loud listen to the whole quad mix yesterday. It is faithful to the quad LP mix. What immediately impressed me was the solid sounds of the bass and punch of the drums. I like the cross channel effects and think they add to the spacey feel of the album (as Key-Wiz noted). The guitar echo in Planet Caravan appearing in different channels than the initial sound, for example. Ozzy's vocals being lower in War Pigs may have been the way the group intended, but when making the stereo mix may have been hoping to release that track as a single (follow up to Paranoid) and a more up front vocal would work better on radio. Just a guess. Overall, it's a 10 for me.

Now if the other three titles would just show up...but that's another thread.

 

[Malhomme]

Currently in it. First thing hitting me is, the voice isn't low in the mix. Its level is accordingly set to drums and bass. The guitars on the opposite are louder, giving that impression. I also find the mix slightly boomy.
I was sort of expecting that, in War Pigs, they would take the opportunity to separate in space the double tracked superimposed guitar solos. Oh well.
There isn't.
The noise level in Planet Caravan is higher than on the CD and I don't get why they did not more on that. And the fade out is butchered.
Also I feel a phase issue that leaves a hole in the center/center. Got to check again.
I was waiting for it, and that is a bit disapointing to me. Of course there isn't much you can do with 3 pieces musical act + singer, so I should have kept my expectations lower. It will be a small 6 for me, as I see little interest over the CD remaster that sounds better, and is clearer

 

[timbre4]

Chain: Oppo BDP-93 > Marantz 4140 > 4 Advent Legacy speakers [not my main everyday system but discs like these get me going]

1975: I played the Paranoid Q8 tape at home and in the car many times. It was spooky and rocked really hard; the active mix brought a higher level of energy and excitement to this three piece band and vocalist, with some guitar overdubs. 2023: Was that tambourine always there in the left rear channel?

Kudos to Mike Butcher for breaking every rule in the book with this kaleidoscope quad mix! While it's not 100% correct in every instance, it comes damn close! The power of the rhythm section as presented here is just breathtaking. I think most everything else has been referenced in previous posts.

For me personally, this Quadio Blu Ray presentation surely demonstrates what a label can produce if they care enough to get it right. Easy 10 for me.

 

[modwerks]

And

I haven't finished listening to the mix, but I do say I really enjoy the simple blu-ray menu (I think it's literally just one screen). There's no reason to have an additional "audio setup" page, and I'm glad they didn't do that. Also, the quad mix is the default mix that starts, which is good.

And one can toggle between the mixes, as a song is playing. Very nice for A/B comparison.

 

[shokhead]

Playing around with BS, I kind of like playing it in multi ch stereo.