Quad LP/Tape Poll Blood, Sweat & Tears: Blood, Sweat & Tears [SQ/Q8]

[EMB]

Columbia CQ/CAQ 30994, from 1973, based on Columbia CS 9720, from 1969.

SQ Lp version (same sequence as stereo Lp):

Side 1:

1. Variations on a Theme by Erik Satie (1st and 2nd Movements)
2. Smiling Phases
3. Sometimes In Winter
4. More And More
5. And When I Die
6. God Bless The Child

Side 2:

1. Spinning Wheel
2. You've Made Me So Very Happy
3. Blues -- Part II
4. Variation on a Theme by Erik Satie (1st Movement)


Q8 track listing:

Program 1:

1. Variations on a Theme by Erik Satie (1st and 2nd Movements)
2. You've Made Me So Very Happy
3. Sometimes In Winter
4. More And More
5. And When I Die
6. God Bless The Chlid


Program 2:

1. Spinning Wheel
2. Smiling Phases
3. Blues -- Part II
4. Variations on a Theme by Erik Satie (Movement 1)



ED

 

[EMB]

Well, since no one else has reviewed it...allow me....

First, as with most Columbia quad's, it's really a nice listen, even on Q8. The mixes are just about perfect for the music, and because there is so much going on with most tracks, the quad mix not only opens up the sound you knew in stereo, but (as was always best about quad) brought up elements of the mix you would kinda not notice in stereo (or mono, with the dedicated 45 versions--here, that would be, at the least, the three singles, "You've Made Me So Very Happy," "Spinning Wheel," "And When I Die" and probably the B-side "More And More").

It should also be mentioned that "Spinning Wheel" is, except for a little extra music at the break, essentially a remix of the 45 version, which had the added lead guitar at the instrumental break that was not heard on the original, longer stereo mix (it also lacks the extra noodling near the end of the Lp version as well, though it doesn't end the same as the 45--it fades, whereas the single ended almost cold). This is also true of "You've Made Me So Very Happy": essentially, this is the 45 mix/edit remixed to quad. I know such edits bother fans of the original stereo Lp and its longer version, but the economy of the single version was a big reason why it was a hit.

And aside from "God Bless The Child" being a nifty showcase for how good quad separation and instrument placement can be, the already evocative and wistful "Sometimes In Winter" is just about heaven here (a pity it was only a B-side, but understandable that Columbia released the uptempo material as A's, because that's what worked at the time).


Rating? Although the music isn't great, it has always been a lot of fun for me, a little slick but also jazzy and bold enough to keep me coming back year after year (it was one of the top-selling US albums of 1969). An '8' overall.


ED

 

[Doug G.]

Ed covered most of it above.

I will just add that I always liked BS&T's "different" brass sound compared to Chicago's. It was maybe a little more psychedelic and jazzy.

I know this group has taken some heat over the years as being a poor imitation of Chicago but I never saw it that way at all.

And yeah, the mix and sound are great.

Doug

 

[Quad Linda]

Critics called them "Bar Mitzvah Soul." Of the thousands of albums I own, this one is solidly in my top 10. I rated it 10. only 10? I've owned 10 copies of this. I prefer the SQ, but have logged the most time with the 2-ch LP (pre-quad) and Q8.

B,S & T wasn't an imitation of Chicago/CTA. B,S & T formed about the same time as CTA, and released two albums before CTA. CTA was not happy that Clive Davis had Guercio producing B,S&T. Rumor has it that Clive signed CTA, contingent on Guercio producing B,S&T. It's the only B,S&T Guervio produced, and their best.

Linda
Bullish on B,S&T

Ed covered most of it above.

I will just add that I always liked BS&T's "different" brass sound compared to Chicago's. It was maybe a little more psychedelic and jazzy.

I know this group has taken some heat over the years as being a poor imitation of Chicago but I never saw it that way at all.

And yeah, the mix and sound are great.

Doug

 

[THX1136]

I very much liked BS&T's first album being the Kooper fan that I am. Even though John Simon produced Al's fingerprints all over it. That album was perhaps more comparable to CTA's first album, but not really. Without Al and having Steve calling more of the shots this album steered more in the jazz/rock direction. At the time there was some kind of "hoopla" going on between Al and the rest of the band (even though Kooper was the one mainly responsible for putting them together). Al left and the rest is history. Loved this album when it came out, became less enamored with the rest of their output though.

As a clarification Child is Father to the Man ('68) was the first BS&T with this album being their second ('69). CTA was released in April '69.

 

[Doug G.]

I should clarify that I am aware that BS&T was not an imitation of Chicago and that the two albums were released before CTA.

It's just that some people back then assumed Chicago was the original jazz/rock group and BS&T tried to sound like them and failed. Those people were just ignorant.

Doug

 

[Quad Linda]

Both are great bands and I've seen them each many times. CTA was first credited with horn arrangement in '68 on the 45 Soul Drippin' by the Mauds. I saw B,S&T a few years ago without DCT, and was unimpressed by their new vocalist. I had Child before this was released and love Kooper, too.

Perhaps the best way to differentiate the Kooper B,S & T from the DCT version is that the Kooper version was more rocky. The DCT version ls more jazz/pop. Their style here is like a Tootsie Pop, a rock/pop song with a jazz center. Most arrangements were handled by Dick Halligan & Fred Lipsius. The band became very different when they departed in the early '70's.

I'd love for Columbia to release a B,S&T box set. There are likely many demos and unreleased tracks languishing in the vaults. Their Woodstock set (yes, they were there) could be included. I've heard More and More from it. Tracks from Laura Nyro's brief tenure as lead vocalist would be wonderful, if they exist. That would have been after Kooper, but before this album. Mean Old World was on the Live in Concert (Japan), aka Live & Improvised, with DCT on lead. It was written by Jerry LaCroix. The version with him on lead remains unreleased from the Mirror Image sessions. The mono demos on the Gold Mastersound Child CD are teriffic. Include them, too, since only some were on the remastered Child CD. Columbia, are you listening?

 

[jimreeves550]

Well, since no one else has reviewed it...allow me....

First, as with most Columbia quad's, it's really a nice listen, even on Q8. The mixes are just about perfect for the music, and because there is so much going on with most tracks, the quad mix not only opens up the sound you knew in stereo, but (as was always best about quad) brought up elements of the mix you would kinda not notice in stereo (or mono, with the dedicated 45 versions--here, that would be, at the least, the three singles, "You've Made Me So Very Happy," "Spinning Wheel," "And When I Die" and probably the B-side "More And More").

It should also be mentioned that "Spinning Wheel" is, except for a little extra music at the break, essentially a remix of the 45 version, which had the added lead guitar at the instrumental break that was not heard on the original, longer stereo mix (it also lacks the extra noodling near the end of the Lp version as well, though it doesn't end the same as the 45--it fades, whereas the single ended almost cold). This is also true of "You've Made Me So Very Happy": essentially, this is the 45 mix/edit remixed to quad. I know such edits bother fans of the original stereo Lp and its longer version, but the economy of the single version was a big reason why it was a hit.

And aside from "God Bless The Child" being a nifty showcase for how good quad separation and instrument placement can be, the already evocative and wistful "Sometimes In Winter" is just about heaven here (a pity it was only a B-side, but understandable that Columbia released the uptempo material as A's, because that's what worked at the time).


Rating? Although the music isn't great, it has always been a lot of fun for me, a little slick but also jazzy and bold enough to keep me coming back year after year (it was one of the top-selling US albums of 1969). An '8' overall.


ED

Thanks for the 8. When they asked me at CBS to mix in quad, I was reluctant. But they bugged the hell out of me and I thought maybe I could be the Quad pioneer mix engineer, I made the first demo for the format wars with a Paul Revere and The Raiders in CBS' SQ and pulled out all the stops and it won. But then quad was poo-poo'd by the critics. Roy Hallee, the producer and engineer of the BS&T stereo album was an amazing talent to try and match. I was thrown into a new quad mixing room at 49 East 52nd street. I felt a responsibility to the artist to be as accurate as possible (although in most cases, they weren't even advised of these remixes...When I asked Jeff Beck how he liked my quad mixes, he said, "What's quad?"), but on the other hand, there was an opportunity to have some surprises which I occasionally took advantage of. Don't forget, as engineer, I was not necessarily a fan of the artist that I had to produce in this scenario. Wally would bring all the multi-tracks up from the vault and I'd put them up on the 16 track machine and have at it. I would submit the final mix to my boss, John McClure and he'd approve it and then on to the next. CBS was just trying to build a new library of existing product for quadraphonic. There were about two other guys doing it as well. Until a couple of years ago a quad fan contacted me and enlightened me about the world of quadraphonic that had developed. I was told it failed misrably and vendors were trying to pass off their quad products as dual stereo systems. One output for the bedroom and one for the living room kind of thing. Anyway, I still have some of my 4 track copies. I spent a lot of time on Bookends and loved it but I don't have a copy and am not sure the original producer allowed it out. Anyway, 8 is good. Thanks Ed. Jim

 

[timbre4]

Jim,

We are honored you dropped by today and chimed in about the quad mixing work experience! There's nothing like having one of the original participants in the format we still treasure comment directly about it.

If you need an attentive audience to regale with your tales of quad mixing and artists insights (or lack thereof), please know that it is very much welcomed and encouraged. :banana:

Regards, Tim (timbre4)

 

[steelydave]

I echo Tim's comments unreservedly - it's a real pleasure to have you here, Jim, and to read your recollections. I've visited your website many times - your section on Columbia's NY studio and quad mixing is invaluable, I think.

Perhaps we could set up a separate thread to address it specifically, but I've always been curious about CBS' early quad activity, before they actually released anything in late 1971/early 1972. Aside from Jim's unreleased quad mixes, it feels like there must've been others - John Cale from Velvet Underground was apparently hired to do quad supervision, but is only credited for one (Poco's 'Deliverin'), and a track from Mongo Santamaria's 'All Strung Out' (1970) and Al Kooper's 'I Stand Alone' (1971) appear on a Columbia quad sampler LP despite never being released in quad on their own.

It makes it seem like CBS may have been doing quite a bit of quad mixing circa '70/'71 but by 1972, they only ended up releasing the albums that were either current or catalog evergreeens, like Bridge over Troubled Water and Sly & The Family Stone's Greatest Hits, whereas things like the Laura Nyro albums were mixed for quad but shelved.

I'd also be fascinated to know more about some of the other guys who mixed for quad at CBS, like Larry Keyes, Al Lawrence and Don Young as there is precious little information about these guys available. It's also interesting to find out that John McClure was overseeing CBS' pop and rock quad output in the early days, as he would go on to do produce a ton of classical quad LP's for Columbia Masterworks in the early and mid 70s.

Thanks again for your insight, and I hope you'll stick around here. Insight like yours is invaluable to anyone who's interested in quad, especially in its formative stages.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Thanks for the 8. When they asked me at CBS to mix in quad, I was reluctant. But they bugged the hell out of me and I thought maybe I could be the Quad pioneer mix engineer, I made the first demo for the format wars with a Paul Revere and The Raiders in CBS' SQ and pulled out all the stops and it won. But then quad was poo-poo'd by the critics. Roy Hallee, the producer and engineer of the BS&T stereo album was an amazing talent to try and match. I was thrown into a new quad mixing room at 49 East 52nd street. I felt a responsibility to the artist to be as accurate as possible (although in most cases, they weren't even advised of these remixes...When I asked Jeff Beck how he liked my quad mixes, he said, "What's quad?"), but on the other hand, there was an opportunity to have some surprises which I occasionally took advantage of. Don't forget, as engineer, I was not necessarily a fan of the artist that I had to produce in this scenario. Wally would bring all the multi-tracks up from the vault and I'd put them up on the 16 track machine and have at it. I would submit the final mix to my boss, John McClure and he'd approve it and then on to the next. CBS was just trying to build a new library of existing product for quadraphonic. There were about two other guys doing it as well. Until a couple of years ago a quad fan contacted me and enlightened me about the world of quadraphonic that had developed. I was told it failed misrably and vendors were trying to pass off their quad products as dual stereo systems. One output for the bedroom and one for the living room kind of thing. Anyway, I still have some of my 4 track copies. I spent a lot of time on Bookends and loved it but I don't have a copy and am not sure the original producer allowed it out. Anyway, 8 is good. Thanks Ed. Jim

Jim, I echo the sentiments of everyone at QuadraphonicQuadForum that it is indeed an honor and a pleasure to read your enlightening post. Yes, Quad may have failed miserably in the early 70's due to a proper lack of hardware but it is alive and well today due to the advances in musical reproduction. The Universal player is a fixture in a lot of homes and hearing those QUAD master tapes properly replicated is a revelation.

Would LOVE to hear your QUAD mix of BOOKENDS as that is a much sought after title but recently it was announced by SONY Japan that an SACD QUAD mix of Bridge Over Troubled Water was to be released and then it was unceremoniously canceled with no reasons given.

As for your Blood, Sweat and Tears mix.......for me it was a solid 10. One of the greatest Rock/Jazz releases of the era sounded fantastic in stereo [used to be a demo album even in THAT format] but as recently released by Audio Fidelity as a QUAD SACD.....simply stunning....along with the uber fantastic Al Kooper 5.1 remix of BS&T's Child Is Father To The Man.

With the recent revival of interest in Quad and 5.1 and even 7.1 remixes of current and classic albums, due in NO small part to this forum, any further input you'd like to share with our 10K enthusiastic readership would be greatly appreciated [and savored].

QUAD may have failed in the 70's but it's alive and well in this new millennium.

Thanks again for your interest and please regale us with more tales of those early 'experiments' with surround. We're ALL Ears!

 

[JonUrban]

Holy Crap, what an honor to have Jim post here in the forum. I have bumped his post count up to 10 to get around the newbie limitations on posting, so please Jim, if you feel so inclined, please post back about anything you like. You or one of the mods can set up a special dedicated Jim Reeves thread so you have a place to feel at home conversing with your fans - and there are MANY here. I am sure if you poke around the various threads in the forum you'll find a lot of references to your work here, and it's pretty much all very positive.

Anyway, welcome. And THANKS! I personally love your BS&T quad work. Did you know it was released as an SACD a few years ago. You can read the thoughts on that release here: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?20061

 

[HDave]

Jim,

We are honored you dropped by today and chimed in about the quad mixing work experience! There's nothing like having one of the original participants in the format we still treasure comment directly about it.

If you need an attentive audience to regale with your tales of quad mixing and artists insights (or lack thereof), please know that it is very much welcomed and encouraged. :banana:

Regards, Tim (timbre4)

Would love to hear another's insight on the birth of Quad and artists/labels that promoted its prominence.

 

[kfbkfb]

A few questions about Quad mixes and the SQ Matrix system:

Was just one Quad mix done (for the Reel to Reel, Q8, SQ),
or was there a separate Quad mix for SQ only?

Was the Quad mix checked through an SQ encoder/decoder
to be sure the Quad mix survived the SQ Matrix process?

If the SQ encoded Quad mix was checked through a decoder,
was it a decoder with no logic, front/back logic or "full" logic?

Thanks

Kirk Bayne