Blue Oyster Cult "Agents of Fortune" - unreleased quad mix?

[Mark Anderson]

A member here contacted me about this title. Not sure if it is the one in that auction as I think he already owned it. I asked for the runout groove numbers and this is what was reported

"Blue Oyster Cult Agents of Fortune:
Side 1 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QAL 34164 1976, Run off vinyl numbers - PAL 34164 - 2E
Side 2 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QBL 34164 1976 Run off vinyl numbers - PBL 34164 - 2J"

So it clearly has the stereo version numbers in the runout groove.

 

[quicksrt]

Like those Sony controlled 360RA titles right?

IINM “Agents of Fortune” was released in Dolby Audio Quad (streaming) about a year ago. Someone check me on that please.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I am going with "fake" of "printing mistake". I was a college rep for CBS when this came out and never saw or heard anything about a quad version of this album...and I am a huge BOC fan.

Small mistakes on old rare coins sometimes bring big money, but would record collectors see that kind of value in a mistake on an LP? I feel a true Quad collector would want the Quad music, not a regular stereo LP with some print mistake.

Like those Sony controlled 360RA titles right?

Yes, but I was incorrect on that one being a Quad, just didn't remember, but @JediJoker put it straight!

 

[Mark Anderson]

A member here contacted me about this title. Not sure if it is the one in that auction as I think he already owned it. I asked for the runout groove numbers and this is what was reported

"Blue Oyster Cult Agents of Fortune:
Side 1 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QAL 34164 1976, Run off vinyl numbers - PAL 34164 - 2E
Side 2 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QBL 34164 1976 Run off vinyl numbers - PBL 34164 - 2J"

So it clearly has the stereo version numbers in the runout groove.

 

[quicksrt]

A member here contacted me about this title. Not sure if it is the one in that auction as I think he already owned it. I asked for the runout groove numbers and this is what was reported

"Blue Oyster Cult Agents of Fortune:
Side 1 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QAL 34164 1976, Run off vinyl numbers - PAL 34164 - 2E
Side 2 label printing - PCQ 34164 Quadraphonic, QBL 34164 1976 Run off vinyl numbers - PBL 34164 - 2J"

So it clearly has the stereo version numbers in the runout groove.

Thank you for the clarity. I think I recall some previous older discussion here on this odd labeled LP.

It still deserved a Discogs entry for the label variation, and to warn potential buyers that it is not a quad mixed LP.

I would not be able to sleep at night if I sold this for more than $30 on ebay.

 

[ogrequad]

This would be amazing if it existed. More importantly, why won't someone do an official release of the Tyranny and Mutation quad?? I have a DVD-r rip, but I would like a legit remastered SACD or Blu-Ray to sit alongside my Audio Fidelity Secret Treaties quad SACD!

(Sorry to hijack the thread!)

 

[quicksrt]

This would be amazing if it existed. More importantly, why won't someone do an official release of the Tyranny and Mutation quad?? I have a DVD-r rip, but I would like a legit remastered SACD or Blu-Ray to sit alongside my Audio Fidelity Secret Treaties quad SACD!

(Sorry to hijack the thread!)

There has always been another alternate title in the pipeline being considered that the tapes were accessed, approvals signed, etc. It's not blocked or particularly expensive, but labels tend to go with the titles that they like best and think will sell after they know what is available. Like for instance if they want to go with a hard rock title of two, then Alice Cooper takes priority. Or if it between Mott The Hopple or BOC, then Mott seems the choice. But yeah, it is getting obvious that Nilsson S., BOC T&M, and E Winter have failed to get a release while others of less importance did. I can say that imo AF went out of business by selecting Labelle and Fresh Aire over E Winter, BOC, or Nilsson. E Winter Group was not chosen (by AF) out of fear of poor sales due to a SACD release ten years prior (misplaced concern), Nilsson was not issued because of likely expense (but it was available), and so MFSL went and grabbed it beating everyone to the punch.

When a MFSL issues a SACD in the US, if there is any lock on the title it is very short, like 30 days. I was told that it is simply curtesy to not issue something currently being offered by another audiophile label. In the UK it may be different, and E Winter could be in fact locked up for a period.

But anyway, my main point is MFSL does not have a lock on anything that they issue. But there is far the market has been tapped already if they do put out a title.

BOC is an obvious choice if a label wants to do a hard rock title. My gut feeling is we will see it at one point on disc. Secret Treaties is an $80 disc on the used market.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Thank you for the clarity. I think I recall some previous older discussion here on this odd labeled LP.

It still deserved a Discogs entry for the label variation, and to warn potential buyers that it is not a quad mixed LP.

I would not be able to sleep at night if I sold this for more than $30 on ebay.

More importantly:
How's about an entry in the Quadraphonic Discography .

 

[Mark Anderson]

The entry can be viewed here Released Recordings that are NOT Quad

 

[fizzywiggs41]

The entry can be viewed here Released Recordings that are NOT Quad

Thanks Mark.

 

[marcb]

There has always been another alternate title in the pipeline being considered that the tapes were accessed, approvals signed, etc. It's not blocked or particularly expensive, but labels tend to go with the titles that they like best and think will sell after they know what is available. Like for instance if they want to go with a hard rock title of two, then Alice Cooper takes priority. Or if it between Mott The Hopple or BOC, then Mott seems the choice. But yeah, it is getting obvious that Nilsson S., BOC T&M, and E Winter have failed to get a release while others of less importance did. I can say that imo AF went out of business by selecting Labelle and Fresh Aire over E Winter, BOC, or Nilsson. E Winter Group was not chosen (by AF) out of fear of poor sales due to a SACD release ten years prior (misplaced concern), Nilsson was not issued because of likely expense (but it was available), and so MFSL went and grabbed it beating everyone to the punch.

BOC is an obvious choice if a label wants to do a hard rock title. My gut feeling is we will see it at one point on disc. Secret Treaties is an $80 disc on the used market.

Do you honestly think AF simply "chose" those titles "over" E.Winter, BOC, etc?

That's just not how it works. And do you really think Nilsson is (or was) a difference maker? Or Edgar Winter and BOC for that matter?

If AF was simply concerned about an Edgar Winter SACD from 10 years prior, then why didn't the BS&T SACD release from 10 years prior scare them off from doing that one? Audio Fidelity released Secret Treaties as a quad SACD and it's not like it sold like hotcakes at the time. I seriously doubt they simply chose to do Nilsson's Little Touch on vinyl, but just passed on Schmilsson as a quad SACD. The more likely answer is those titles was either was too expensive (to meet the ROI) or not available for licensing. At the very least, it certainly shows that AF was not opposed to releasing product by those acts.

And FWIW, using prices on the secondary market as a proxy for demand on the primary market is a fool's errand.

 

[par4ken]

Thank you for the clarity. I think I recall some previous older discussion here on this odd labeled LP.

It still deserved a Discogs entry for the label variation, and to warn potential buyers that it is not a quad mixed LP.

I would not be able to sleep at night if I sold this for more than $30 on ebay.

I guess it's all relative. There have been albums that have sold on Discogs and eBay for astronomical sums, you look at them and say why? Look at prices people pay for sports cards etc. I would happily pay $30 (and much, much more) for that particular album even if it's just stereo labeled as quad.

Quad stuff does not seem to command the very high prices that a lot of other collectables do. If I was rich I wouldn't blink at paying whatever price for something that I really wanted but most of us have limited budgets so we have to be more practical.

Yes it should have a listing in Discogs. That would show people that such an LP exists, the numbers in the runout groove would show that it's not quad. There should be a note about it's non-quadiness. Discogs relies on people like you and me to input that sort of information.

At least we do have the 5.1 mix which is very good!

 

[quicksrt]

Do you honestly think AF simply "chose" those titles "over" E.Winter, BOC, etc?

That's just not how it works. And do you really think Nilsson is (or was) a difference maker? Or Edgar Winter and BOC for that matter?

If AF was simply concerned about an Edgar Winter SACD from 10 years prior, then why didn't the BS&T SACD release from 10 years prior scare them off from doing that one? Audio Fidelity released Secret Treaties as a quad SACD and it's not like it sold like hotcakes at the time. I seriously doubt they simply chose to do Nilsson's Little Touch on vinyl, but just passed on Schmilsson as a quad SACD. The more likely answer is those titles was either was too expensive (to meet the ROI) or not available for licensing. At the very least, it certainly shows that AF was not opposed to releasing product by those acts.

And FWIW, using prices on the secondary market as a proxy for demand on the primary market is a fool's errand.

Yes, I do know why Audio Fidelity choose not to do The Edgar Winter Group album, Marshall Blonstein told me himself. During the high-point of AF releasing quadraphonic masters on SACD, I had a chance to have a long sit down lunch with Marshall in Hollywood, on Hollywood Blvd. actually (just him and I). I wrote about it years ago right here in this forum. During this meetup I went down the entire list of every quad masters that many of us (at least I) had interest in seeing released. Marshall said that any title already out in DSD was frowned upon reissuing because a big part of AF's buying market was after DSD exclusives. And he specifically stated that was why TOCOAT was not being considered even if available. He also told me Jeff Beck "Wired" was decided against (even being available with quad) because that the album simply did not sound great - even the stereo master was not great (I didn't argue). Jackson Browne "Late For The Sky" was available with quad mix, but the stipulation was that Jackson Browne would get to dictate where the mastering was done and be involved which would add to the expenses dramatically. So that was off the table sadly. TYA - A Space in Time was very high on the list to do with corrected channels, but the TYA catalog was moving from EMI to Warner at the time, and they would have to wait until the dust settled on that one. I really grilled him for several hours, and we talked about his career at Island and Ode as well. A very memorable afternoon for me.

I've been pretty lucky in that I have gotten to meet many industry people and artists involved. I guess living in LA and being in close proximity to the action, and some luck I've found myself hanging out with Keith Richards and Johnny Cash at different times. Meeting Marshall just felt like I was hanging at at some dinner shooting the **** with a friend. It was just my interest, and stumbling into him at the right time.

Now about the BOC 4.0 SACD doing nicely on the secondary market, and this not being indicative of how well a title like T&M would do as a quad SACD.
Well, it would do fine as many have expressed interest. One has to use some kind measure and of gage of interest, and used prices is but one area. The price of a quad LP of T&M is another measure. What would you use to decide it the given album is worth a reissue, or should be rejected outright?

 

[ar surround]

I've been pretty lucky in that I have gotten to meet many industry people and artists involved. I guess living in LA and being in close proximity to the action, and some luck I've found myself hanging out with Keith Richards and Johnny Cash at different times. Meeting Marshall just felt like I was hanging at at some dinner shooting the **** with a friend. It was just my interest, and stumbling into him at the right time.

Off topic: You hung out with Keith Richards and you're still alive. That's impressive. Keith is still alive...that's even more impressive:

“I’ve been through more cold turkeys than there are freezers.”​

Life, 2010

"The key to survival was that I paced myself. I never really overdid it. Well, I shouldn't say never; sometimes I was absolutely comatose."​

Life, 2010

 

[marcb]

Yes, I do know why Audio Fidelity choose not to do The Edgar Winter Group album, Marshall Blonstein told me himself. During the high-point of AF releasing quadraphonic masters on SACD, I had a chance to have a long sit down lunch with Marshall in Hollywood, on Hollywood Blvd. actually (just him and I). I wrote about it years ago right here in this forum. During this meetup I went down the entire list of every quad master that many of us (at least I) had interest in seeing released. Marshall said that any title already out in DSD was frowned upon reissuing because a big part of AF's buying market was after DSD exclusives. And he specifically stated that was why TOCOAT was not being considered even if available. He also told me Jeff Beck "Wired" was decided against (even being available with quad) because that the album simply did not sound great - even the stereo master was not great (I didn't argue). Jackson Browne "Late For The Sky" was available with quad mix, but the stipulation was that Jackson Browne would get to dictate where the mastering was done and be involved which would add to the expenses dramatically. So that was off the table sadly. TYA - A Space in Time was very high on the list to do with corrected channels, but the TYA catalog was moving from EMI to Warner at the time, and they would have to wait until the dust settled on that one. I really grilled him for several hours, and we talked about his career at Island and Ode as well. A very memorable afternoon for me.

I've been pretty lucky in that I have gotten to meet many industry people and artists involved. I guess living in LA and being in close proximity to the action, and some luck I've found myself hanging out with Keith Richards and Johnny Cash at different times. Meeting Marshall just felt like I was hanging at at some dinner shooting the **** with a friend. It was just my interest, and stumbling into him at the right time.

Now about the BOC 4.0 SACD doing nicely on the secondary market, and this not being indicative of how well a title like T&M would do as a quad SACD.
Well, it would do fine as many have expressed interest. One has to use some kind measure and of gage of interest, and used prices is but one area. The price of a quad LP of T&M is another measure. What would you use to decide it the given album is worth a reissue, or should be rejected outright?

Hmmm, I had discussions too with MB (not in person but via email). This is only sort of how it was presented to me by him. Titles may have been frowned upon when there was a somewhat competing version - but not necessarily excluded (again see B,S&T). Of the other titles you mention, Jackson Browne and TYA were, as I said, effectively unavailable. And yes, titles - like Wired apparently (that's a new one...too bad) - were frequently excluded because they felt the recording/tapes were subpar. That's not really news.

Nevertheless, AF did not go out of business because they "chose" Labelle over Harry Nilsson or Edgar Winter our BOC. Period.

Again, secondary markets for out of print items and primary retail markets for in-print items are two entirely different supply and demand curves. A handful of people (globally) paying ridiculous amounts out of print items is meaningless in determining whether 5,000 copies will sell at retail. I mean, nobody looks at the prices paid in antique stores and pawn shops to gauge whether they should start making manual typewriters or 1800's medical eqpt or countless other items again. "Many" have expressed interest? You mean like the "many' who expressed interest in a repress of the Stones mono vinyl box (which, despite predictions it would sell out 10,000 copies immediately, is still readily available at reduced prices)?

 

[amontass]

I hope that it was worth it!

I own a copy of this SQ quadraphonic record in a stereo record jacket. The record plays as an SQ record should, excellent front to back sounds, centered sounds, and back only sounds. This is an actual SQ encoded recording. I am thrilled to own it as the separation makes it exciting to listed to! To test this I played a stereo version of this record in SQ mode and got nearly 100% front speaker play with a steady low volume back speaker sound. In addition, I have had several people who know if they are hearing a quadraphonic recording and they are excited at the way this album separates!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I own a copy of this SQ quadraphonic record in a stereo record jacket. The record plays as an SQ record should, excellent front to back sounds, centered sounds, and back only sounds. This is an actual SQ encoded recording. I am thrilled to own it as the separation makes it exciting to listed to! To test this I played a stereo version of this record in SQ mode and got nearly 100% front speaker play with a steady low volume back speaker sound. In addition, I have had several people who know if they are hearing a quadraphonic recording and they are excited at the way this album separates!

We would all love to see photos of your copy, along with the run off vinyl numbers; also I'll happily send you $50 to purchase this one from you!

 

[quicksrt]

Hmmm, I had discussions too with MB (not in person but via email). This is only sort of how it was presented to me by him. Titles may have been frowned upon when there was a somewhat competing version - but not necessarily excluded (again see B,S&T). Of the other titles you mention, Jackson Browne and TYA were, as I said, effectively unavailable. And yes, titles - like Wired apparently (that's a new one...too bad) - were frequently excluded because they felt the recording/tapes were subpar. That's not really news.

Nevertheless, AF did not go out of business because they "chose" Labelle over Harry Nilsson or Edgar Winter our BOC. Period.

Again, secondary markets for out of print items and primary retail markets for in-print items are two entirely different supply and demand curves. A handful of people (globally) paying ridiculous amounts out of print items is meaningless in determining whether 5,000 copies will sell at retail. I mean, nobody looks at the prices paid in antique stores and pawn shops to gauge whether they should start making manual typewriters or 1800's medical eqpt or countless other items again. "Many" have expressed interest? You mean like the "many' who expressed interest in a repress of the Stones mono vinyl box (which, despite predictions it would sell out 10,000 copies immediately, is still readily available at reduced prices)?

Like the Ten Years After SDE SACD - with a handful of people complaining that they missed out buying it, and some paying ridicules prices on Discogs for this out of print title? Then SDE deciding to repress it due to this "Many" have expressed interest? exact issue. Yes, that is exactly what I am speaking of. Go get 'em SDE!!!! Even if the SDE edition is sitting on copies of this TYA title for several more years, the decision was based on some math and science.

 

[sjcorne]

I own a copy of this SQ quadraphonic record in a stereo record jacket. The record plays as an SQ record should, excellent front to back sounds, centered sounds, and back only sounds. This is an actual SQ encoded recording. I am thrilled to own it as the separation makes it exciting to listed to! To test this I played a stereo version of this record in SQ mode and got nearly 100% front speaker play with a steady low volume back speaker sound. In addition, I have had several people who know if they are hearing a quadraphonic recording and they are excited at the way this album separates!

Could you describe the soundstage on some of the songs?

 

[quadsearcher]

I own a copy of this SQ quadraphonic record in a stereo record jacket. The record plays as an SQ record should, excellent front to back sounds, centered sounds, and back only sounds. This is an actual SQ encoded recording. I am thrilled to own it as the separation makes it exciting to listed to! To test this I played a stereo version of this record in SQ mode and got nearly 100% front speaker play with a steady low volume back speaker sound. In addition, I have had several people who know if they are hearing a quadraphonic recording and they are excited at the way this album separates!

I'd like to know what some of the mix choices were, too. Like in Vera Gemini, are some vocal parts in back L or R? Like call and response F/B? The song seems made for it.