ANALOG Channel Reassignment Recommendations

[Fourplay]

I would like to populate this thread with a list of existing surround discs in any format which members believe can benefit from channel reassignment. This means that the channels as encoded appear to be positioned incorrectly, and swapping the signals into different speakers seems to balance them correctly. I recall having seen at least four:

Ten Years After - A Space In Time
Neil Young - Harvest
Cassandra Wilson - Traveling Miles
Gentle Giant - DVD

I propose that the thread adhere to the following format:

Where: Encoded Track > Speaker Position = (Encoded on disc changed to final position)
Recommendation x:
LF > xx
RF > xx
LR > xx
RR > xx
C > xx
LFE > xx

Members can also recommend boosts or reductions in amplification by adding "+xxdb" or "-xxdb" for example:

LR > LF +10db
RR > RF -3db
If levels are flat just leave off the db notation.

Therefore:
Ten Years After - A Space In Time

Recommendation 1:
LF > LR
RF > RR
LR > LF
RR > RF
C > C
LFE > SW

If there is a different recommendation for the same source, just add a 2nd recommendation in the same format. Feel free to discuss why you chose to position the channels as you did.

One could also post for discs whose channels do not need reassignment, but whose channels need a boost or reduction in levels to balance the sound.

For instance:

Children Of Bodom - Blooddrunk
Recommendation 1:
LF > LF
RF > RF
LR > LR +10db
RR > RR +10db
C > C
LFE > SW

Discussion: If you like the Death Metal genre...

In this way members can have a quick and handy reference for both which discs are in need of help, and what help is needed based on experimentation.

 

[Fourplay]

Here's Neil:

Neil Young HARVEST [DVD-A]

Recommendation 1: You should swap the front and back channels to the tracks 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 (6 tracks out of the 10 tracks) and you'll find the original mix.
LF > LR
RF > RR
LR > LF
RR > RF
C > C
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/Young-Neil-HARVEST-DVD-A.3840/post-61790
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/Young-Neil-HARVEST-DVD-A.3840/post-199050

 

[Fourplay]

Casandra Wilson TRAVELING MILES [DVD-A]

Recommendation 1: An odd channel swap, and not definitive. Other opinions????
LF > LF
RF > RF
LR > C
RR > RR
C > LR
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...sandra-traveling-miles-dvd-a.4531/post-177939

Discussion: The mixes appear different between the two encoded surround streams:
1. DTS has got the DTS data and channels OK but the MLP channels are somewhow in wrong order.
2. .. and now you've detected even the DTS stream is balls'd up LK, its put me off altogether!

 

[Fourplay]

Gentle Giant - Free Hand [DVD-A]

Much controversy. Discussion?

Recommendation 1: Swap the right front & back
LF > LF (stays the same)
RF > RR
LR > LR (stays the same)
RR > RF
C > C
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ng-on-dvd-audio-in-february.15235/post-142601
________________________________________
Recommendation 2: Swap rears
LF > LF (stays the same)
RF > RF (stays the same)
LR > RR
RR > LR
C > C
LFE > SW


https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ng-on-dvd-audio-in-february.15235/post-143793
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ng-on-dvd-audio-in-february.15235/post-143868
______________________________________
Recommendation 3: Not a complete rotation.
LF > RF
RF > RR
LR > LR (stays the same)
RR > LF
C > C
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ng-on-dvd-audio-in-february.15235/post-142981
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...Hand-to-swap-or-not-to-swap.15798/post-223524

(3rd one) What's recommended is:

"Move the front left to front right
Move the front right to rear right
Move the rear right to front left"

 

[jdmack]

Gentle Giant - Free Hand [DVD-A]

Much controversy. Discussion?

>>Recommendation 2: Swap rears>>

That was my original recommendation, but I was incorrect. I'm fairly certain that Recommendation 3 is the correct channel placement.

J. D.

 

[LizardKing]

Casandra Wilson TRAVELING MILES [DVD-A]

Recommendation 1: An odd channel swap, and not definitive. Other opinions????
LF > LF
RF > RF
LR > C
RR > RR
C > LR
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...NG-MILES-DVD-A&p=177939&viewfull=1#post177939

Discussion: The mixes appear different between the two encoded surround streams:
1. DTS has got the DTS data and channels OK but the MLP channels are somewhow in wrong order.
2. .. and now you've detected even the DTS stream is balls'd up LK, its put me off altogether!

Yes I think thats right (for the MLP track)...

P.S. Great thread....

 

[Almen]

Wasn't there a discussion regarding the The Best of Aretha Franklin DTS?

 

[Fourplay]

Here is one quote I could find:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-aretha-the-best-of-dts-dvd.13355/post-224976

Since it is not explicit, I will wait to add a formal recommendation. It seems like he is saying swap the fronts and rears. Does anyone else have specifics on this. Somewhere else it mentions that the 8-track had issues, but again I cannot find details.

Wasn't there a discussion regarding the The Best of Aretha Franklin DTS?

 

[Almen]

I alerted Mike the Fish to see if he had anything more to say about it.

 

[Franklin]

Hi there. I've just seen this after a long process of being blocked by my broadband provider, forgetting my password here, and then forgetting my email password so I can reset stuff via my phone to log in here via my phone! I'll need a few mins to get my brain together. And a coffee.

 

[Franklin]

Okay, I see. I'll have a listen!

 

[Franklin]

My unscientific observation: on the tracks where the drums appear to be in the rear, switching front to back sends the bass to the rears. If you use large fronts and satellite rears it sounds pretty bad when switched!

On Spanish Harlem, the drums are in the rears but the leads predominantly in the front. When switched, the drum track works but the lead vocals much less so. My current thoughts is that mixing convention was yet to be established as we now know it.

 

[Franklin]

I've only got the DVD.

 

[Fourplay]

My current thoughts is that mixing convention was yet to be established as we now know it.

So if I read this correctly, you are not advocating that any channel switch "makes it right."

 

[Franklin]

Yes, it didn't make it any better overall for me. I only switched front and rears. I did stick my head between front and rear on left and right planes at times to see if there might be a rotational switch going on, but it didn't seem that way to me.

 

[fredblue]

I suspect the limited number of multitracks at the remixers disposal while keeping the mixes discrete is a part of why elements/instruments are where they are (at times incongruous imho) on the Aretha Quad.

 

[Fourplay]

In the interest of a centralized location for all Channel Reassignment Recommendations, I hereby submit links to discussions about GRT 8-tracks with swapped channels:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/grt-swapped-channels.19863/post-229789
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/grt-q8-c-h-question.7292/post-91462

 

[Almen]

In the interest of humanity we've found a better place for you to go.

Thanks Fourplay, I'll take a look.

 

[Fourplay]

Elias, David - The Window [SACD]
Recommendation 1:
LF > LF
RF > RF
LR > LR +6db
RR > RR +6db
C > C
LFE > SW

Discussion: Please experiment with the amount of boost.

Reference: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...elias-david-the-window-sacd.5232/#post-259749

 

[Deek57]

Here's Neil:

Neil Young HARVEST [DVD-A]

Recommendation 1: You should swap the front and back channels to the tracks 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 (6 tracks out of the 10 tracks) and you'll find the original mix.
LF > LR
RF > RR
LR > LF
RR > RF
C > C
LFE > SW

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...il-HARVEST-DVD-A&p=61790&viewfull=1#post61790
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-HARVEST-DVD-A&p=199050&viewfull=1#post199050

Harvest was my first DVD-A purchase ten or more years ago, I have always liked the channel alignment. I am in the middle of the room with the band playing around me, different sounds coming out of different speakers, surround sound as it were. I can't hear a problem with the mix, same goes for TYA Space In Time as long as all speakers are active, different sounds coming out of each I'm happy, but that's me.