Classical Music on SACD

[ct]

I only started picking up SACD titles recently, when I bought a universal player. I have a lot of DVD-A titles, in all format's. I now have quite a few SACD classical titles as well, and frankly Pentatone is on the top of my Classical list: equal to Tacet and ARTS on the DVD-A side. I have had some problems with their US distribution, and ended up buying directly from them in Europe, which worked out well, except a bit pricey. But when it comes to quality classical releases I highly recommend, and commend them for their work.

 

[zabble]

Surround Classical

I do like an aggressive mix in classical - this also includes such things as film scores. .......-get me in the middle of the orchestra and I am in.

My sentiments exactly.

Since practically every classical piece I've ever heard was recorded in ambient, hall-like environments, I yearn for something different. The signature ambient wash of almost every classical recording I've ever heard--to me--dilutes the sensation of hearing each component of the musical collective whole separately and distinctly. This is what attracted me to quad (and surround) in the first place. While I don't knock anyone else's preferences for the purist approach, why can't someone commit classical music blasphemy and record an orchestra with numerous mics placed relatively close to the instruments so that the instruments give the recording most of its character rather than the room sound? Of course it wouldn't sound like it "was meant to sound". That would be the point.

 

[ct]

The Tacet label records in the "aggressive" surround mix you desire. Most of their works are chamber music pieces, and very well done. Most of their 5.1 releases are in the DVD-A,, format. Although I think they are now issuing in SACD as well.

 

[bmoura]

The Tacet label records in the "aggressive" surround mix you desire. Most of their works are chamber music pieces, and very well done. Most of their 5.1 releases are in the DVD-A,, format. Although I think they are now issuing in SACD as well.

There are other Classical Music releases in Surround with "aggressive" surround mixes.

I'd suggest a listen to the 2 Surround Sound SACDs on Telarc by the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet (LAGQ: Latin and Guitar Heros). Excellent sonics and by placing each quartet member in their own speaker (so to speak), some very dramatic interplay once all 4 are playing !

 

[ChristopherLees]

This week i bought 5 classical sacd discs....with varying results.

1.Mozart Requiem... Herbert von Karajan Deutsche Grammophon 471 639-2
1976 Recording....remixed from the multitrack........into 5.1

Very good/excellent!!! Orchestra in front l & r and rear l & r speakers.
Choir mainly in front l & r speakers.
(with a touch of ambience from the choir
thrown into the rear speakers)
Vocal soloists in centre channel....
I think this could be one of the best Mozart recordings I have ever bought from this label....although the stereo box set of Don Giovanni with Fricsay conducting is pretty special...

2.Chopin Polonaises... Maurizio Pollini Deutsche Grammophon 471 648 -2
1976 recording ....remixed from multitrack???? 5.1

......If you like standing in a huge empty hall with wooden floors about 2/3rds of the way back to the rear wall.....and hearing a great pianist echoing all around you then this is for you....personally I prefered (actually really quite liked it) with just the centre speaker on its own...which just gave you the piano without any echo at all(the only channel to really do so...and it sounded really good.... even if that meant it was just mono)...which says alot about what the other channels on the sacd do to your listening experience.

3.Ravel Balero/La Valse/Daphne and Chloe... Mobile Fidelity UDSACD 4002
1975 recording from Vox.....
originally released as a QS lp.

Funny reading the liner notes...MFSL go to great pains to explain how the original recording was in the special sansui SQ system!!! (that's right a great typo error...repeated several times for your amusement)

The Original 4 track tape is used and is put on sacd as 4.0.....
results???
track 5.Daphne and Chloe is awesome!! the choir is in the rear and the orchetra is in the front......which was actually the composers original intention..
(yes Ravel was a quad freak in 1909!!!)

The rest is interesting....a very good recording....But its 2 mikes at the rear of the hall and 2 mikes up the front....that's how the rest was done....it does sound good that way though....nothing like the chopin (thank goodness).....Vox went to great trouble to make sure that there was no boominess but there is some shatter echo due to the halls acoutics...this produces ghost snare sounds in the rear and some brass sounds as well...makes you think that these instruments are discretely mixed in the rears as well as being with the orchestra in the front channels...in a way it's not bad.

4.Mussorgsky pictures at an exhibition/night on bald mountain/Khovanschina
Mobile Fidelity sound lab UDSACD 4004 ....
again a Vox recording from 1975.....
original 4 track tape used....4.0
a very good recording...but again rear mikes at back of hall.

my tip is but the ravel first (because it's worth it for Daphne and Chloe) and if you find the mix of the first 4 tracks ok, then get this one too.

5.Beethoven symphony no5 /Mendelssohn symphony no4....Pentatone
PTC 5186 102 a quadraphonic recording from 1976... 4.0

I found this to be an amazing echo chamber!! too much for me.
like being in huge bathroom.
and the stereo mix (to my ears anyway ) seemed to suffer because of the huge amount of echo you get from the 4 tracks folded down to 2.

Personally I quite liked it when I put it to multichannel and then disconnected the rear speakers......but of course that makes it stereo....or rather 2 tracks fo a 4 channel tape... still that's better than listening to one channel of 5.1 Chopin.
anyway I am still going to buy more pentatone discs...because
1.in the way I played it in stereo it was quite good.
2.just like Deutsche Grammophon , recordings can vary and one disc usually
(in my experience ) doesn't always speak for the entire catalogue...especially since this label has newer 5.1 recordings.....

cheers all

 

[ChristopherLees]

4.Mussorgsky pictures at an exhibition/night on bald mountain/Khovanschina
Mobile Fidelity sound lab UDSACD 4004 ....
again a Vox recording from 1975.....
original 4 track tape used....4.0
a very good recording...but again rear mikes at back of hall.


Well I just went back to some other dts classical cds and played
New Philharmonia Orchestra - Pictures At An Exhibition (QR) that I got from Tab and I have to say that the New Philharmonia Orchestra version blows the Vox MFSL one away..Nice and discrete instruments in each speaker.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well I just went back to some other dts classical cds and played
New Philharmonia Orchestra - Pictures At An Exhibition (QR) that I got from Tab and I have to say that the New Philharmonia Orchestra version blows the Vox MFSL one away..Nice and discrete instruments in each speaker.

If that's the Mackerras/NPO, it has been re-released on an Artemis SACD. I still prefer Reiner (3channel) and Schippers (Sony).

Kal

 

[ChristopherLees]

I'm not sure if it is that performance, but i'll look out for that sacd and do an A/B.
I'm still trying to find somewhere in melbourne that has rca living presence sacd, before ordering over the net...the rca multichannel sacd's are the one's that I really want to get.

 

[ssully]

I've got a decent colleciton of classical SACD/DVD-A (morst recent purchase was from the 3-channel 'RCA Living Stereo' line) , and I agree that there should be a classical forum section here. Also, I *don't* want aggressive surround mixes for classical except for the odd piece that calls for it in the score .

My favorite classical hi-rez surround release has to be the Carlos Kleiber Beethoven 5/7. That classic recording of the 5th simply hasn't ever sounded better, to my ears. It's stunning. Second fave would be the Previn Messiaen "Turangalila' -- mainly because it's such an incredible piece of music, and Previn's has long been my favorite recording of it..

 

[Kal Rubinson]

My favorite classical hi-rez surround release has to be the Carlos Kleiber Beethoven 5/7. That classic recording of the 5th simply hasn't ever sounded better, to my ears. It's stunning. Second fave would be the Previn Messiaen "Turangalila' -- mainly because it's such an incredible piece of music, and Previn's has long been my favorite recording of it..

I agree about the Kleiber/Beethoven SACD as it makes the best sonic presentation of a pair of historic performances. The Previn/Messiaen DVD-A is one of my favorites, too, despite newer MCH SACDs of the piece.

Kal

 

[The Quadfather]

I have attended many concerts, mostly rock. It is my opinion that the venue is an impediment to good sound, not the other way around. Of course, I realize that I am talking apples and oranges, but the reason for large halls is to seat more people so the performance can be heard by many ticket holders, therefore making the performance economically viable. The purpose of the hall is not to enhance the music, which would sound better in a small room, equipped with acoustic treatment. However, I do realize that there are halls that are well suited acoustically, to live performances. I also recognize that there are some, maybe many, that like the ambience approach. However, why not do both? You could do the ambient approach on the DVD-A part, and put on a DTS track with the direct mike approach. It could even be the same concert, just two different recordings being made from it, and put them on the same disc. Just a suggestion.

The Quadfather

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have attended many concerts, mostly rock. It is my opinion that the venue is an impediment to good sound, not the other way around. Of course, I realize that I am talking apples and oranges, but the reason for large halls is to seat more people so the performance can be heard by many ticket holders, therefore making the performance economically viable. The purpose of the hall is not to enhance the music, which would sound better in a small room, equipped with acoustic treatment.

LIke a garage? ;-)

However, I do realize that there are halls that are well suited acoustically, to live performances. I also recognize that there are some, maybe many, that like the ambience approach. However, why not do both? You could do the ambient approach on the DVD-A part, and put on a DTS track with the direct mike approach. It could even be the same concert, just two different recordings being made from it, and put them on the same disc. Just a suggestion.

AIX has done just that.

Kal

 

[ssully]

An *orchestra* of any substantial size would not sound better in a small room.
They sound best from good seats in good-sized, acoustically favorable concert halls, in my experience.

I attended a solo recital tonight (the magnificent Pollini playing piano works of Beethoven & Chopin) and that's a horse of s different color. The Kennedy Center concert hall is fairly large; a piano, in such a venue, cannot help sound far less 'incisive' and focused than it does in a smaller room..especially during pedalled passages. The ear learns to adjust , though, and I had no trouble following most of the lines after a few minutes. But the contrast between concert hall sound and home sound is often striking -- and in general, home audio is 'unnaturally' detailed compared to acoustic concert sonics. Whether I prefer one over the other depends on the type of music.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

But that's the beauty of well-produced multichannel with effective use of ambience: the home listening environment begins to approximate the sound of the hall.

Kal

 

[pentaman]

But that's the beauty of well-produced multichannel with effective use of ambience: the home listening environment begins to approximate the sound of the hall.

Kal

One of our customer's from Amsterdam put it this way after hearing the Krips Mozart recordings with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (PTC 5186 119): "For the first time I heard my Concertgebouw in my living room"

Best,pentaman

 

[solaris]

Hey not all recordings are made in the Concertgebouw. Sometimes getting the hall sound is not what you want. Yes I buy the cheap seats and sit behind and above the Orchestra, now that is surround and you can see everything as well. Yes I would like a string quartet to be 1 man 1 speaker. But I wouldn't mind a hall version as well. I must admit for most orchestra recordings a well recorded 3 channels with a little ambience in the rears is the way to go. I still love a good from the podium recording surround you.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If you want very surroundy classical, try the TaceT DVD-As. Terrific sound, performances and effects.

Kal

 

[KevinD9052]

I love aggressive classical mixes. But I got burned & nicely surprised with two classical SACD rereleases of Columbia SQ disks.
The burn was Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra on Sony Classical. The original had the orchestra arrayed 360 degrees around the listener & the conductor when it was recorded. The SQ mix was great decoded via a SQ-W or Tate. But the pressing was abysmal. There was so much surface noise it ruined the disk for me. The rerelease is MC and uses the same master tape & cover art showing the 360 degree orchestra arrangement. But the producers remixed the surround into ambiance. So now I have a very quiet and very boring copy of this performance. Bummer. A pox on those producers!!!
Another Columbia rerelease on Sony SACD that fares better is E. Power Biggs Four Antiphonal Organs. (Bach Toccatas and Fugues). The SQ mix I felt was rather muddied. Probably all that low end and my middling turntable at that time. And I never really liked the music that much. Too somber. It's an acquired taste. The SACD retains the antiphonal mix which is great. True surround with an organ in each corner. I have actually come to like it! It seems livelier somehow and much less somber. More likely, it's due to the cleaner sound and lack of distortion this time around.

 

[Whitehall]

As the owner of a couple of the Pentatone disks, I can say they are outstanding recordings with great sound quality and sensitive mixing. When shopping for classical SACDs, I always look with favor on this label.

Please, keep up the good work!

So, how about Borodin's String Quartets on SACD? No one seems to have a hi-res version. In fact, there is little in the way of string quartets or quintets on SACD it seems.

 

[bmoura]

I love aggressive classical mixes. But I got burned & nicely surprised with two classical SACD rereleases of Columbia SQ disks.
The burn was Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra on Sony Classical. The original had the orchestra arrayed 360 degrees around the listener & the conductor when it was recorded. The SQ mix was great decoded via a SQ-W or Tate. But the pressing was abysmal. There was so much surface noise it ruined the disk for me. The rerelease is MC and uses the same master tape & cover art showing the 360 degree orchestra arrangement. But the producers remixed the surround into ambiance. So now I have a very quiet and very boring copy of this performance. Bummer. A pox on those producers!!!
Another Columbia rerelease on Sony SACD that fares better is E. Power Biggs Four Antiphonal Organs. (Bach Toccatas and Fugues). The SQ mix I felt was rather muddied. Probably all that low end and my middling turntable at that time. And I never really liked the music that much. Too somber. It's an acquired taste. The SACD retains the antiphonal mix which is great. True surround with an organ in each corner. I have actually come to like it! It seems livelier somehow and much less somber. More likely, it's due to the cleaner sound and lack of distortion this time around.

I'd suggest checking out the new SACD on Sonoma Records entitled Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani.

It's not aggressive per se but they do array the musicians in a horseshoe arrangement which makes for an impressive 5.1 Surround Sound mix on some of the selections.

Copies are available from the Acoustic Sounds and Elusive Disc web sites.