Goona
800 Club - QQ All-Star
Lol I wish,Geez, did you two gents suddenly go to work for Dolby?
Comments Inspired by Lennon, John - GIMME SOME TRUTH (Ultimate Remixes) [Blu-Ray Audio]
- Thread starter ar surround
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With respect, we are informed emphatically in the Goats Head Soup thread that Atmos is compatible with 5.1. so we don't need the (missing) DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1.
With that proviso I would expect for this album to hear only very slight differences between the Atmos 5.1 downmix and the DTS. It isn't possible to do that comparison for Goats Head Soup. It is possible here, and the difference is dramatic.
I would like to know the reasons for that difference before voting. What is going on?
I‘d suggest the Atmos mix was specifically done to maximise the extra speakers and the DTS 5.1 was done for 5.1 and not just a downmix from Atmos.
In my experience the height speakers add to immersive feel and will always give a more pleasing surround experience (for me), unless the 5.1 is dramatically more discrete (i.e. totally different intent to the Atmos mix).
No. The Atmos mix is fully compatible with 5.1. If it isn't compatible here then it isn't compatible on Goats Head Soup. You cannot have it both ways.
I thought we were talking about the DTS vs Atmos mixes on this release. There is no DTS on Goats Head Soup.
Goona
800 Club - QQ All-Star
I really do not care about Goats Head Soup. Unless you listen to this release on Atmos the sound is not good, which leads to 1 of 2 things.
1) 2 polls
2) If you do not have Atmos its not fair to vote.
I am looking at the poll wanting to know how immersive the mix is is it worth buying it for sound design, clarity etc.
"Compatible with 5.1" or "compatible to 5.1" vs. a true 5.1 mix made specifically using a codec are two different things.
I infer two things:
-Albums with a DTS 5.1 and Atmos mix, both mixes are going to be different as the Atmos contains additional musical information that is re-routed in a down mix situation. Atmos when played through 5.1 or 7.1, the algorithm steers the metadata sounds to a programmed place in the 7.1 mix.
"What is smart is that the Dolby ecosystem will take that metadata and position the sound of the object in the same place, even though the room, speaker positions and number of speakers are different to the room you use to mix in." Mixing Music In Dolby Atmos - Everything You Need To Know | Pro Tools
-The DTS mix could include all elements that the engineers chose to place in the 5.1 mix. They might and they might not include additional elements (ones that would be for additional speakers - a 7.1 setup or a 7.1.4) or those elements are mixed down from the height or overheads, but possibly not as audibly noticeable on 5.1.
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The only Atmos release currently in my collection (until
It would be a good exercise for a couple of these mixing engineers to write a few paragraphs on their goals for both the 5.1 and Atmos mixes and what they did to get there.
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JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
This is explicitly wrong. No audio is lost; it is only redirected. Anything in the height channels will be folded, on-the-fly, into the available channels. For any audio object whose path includes height metadata, that object will be placed within the available soundfield. If a height virtualizer is active, processing will be applied to make audio mixed to the height channels and any objects that move vertically sound as if they were above the listener (your mileage may vary on that effect, of course).
Thanks for the correction, I was still half asleep LOL. I have edited my posting appropriately. I was going by "compatible mix," I should have responded in a more clear manner.
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Can you clarify this for me, as my 5.1.4 ATMOS setup is part of my music room build, which is on pandemic pause right now:
Are you (and others) saying that Atmos redirects to the available channels (say 5.1 for example) even to non-ATMOS-capable AVRs and pre-pros? It is well-known that ATMOS is object-based and will fold to whatever it sees while through an ATMOS processor...but you seem to be implying it is compatible with standard 5.1 setups (non-ATMOS). I assumed non-ATMOS AVRS/processors don't even see the ATMOS layer to choose it.
AFAIK, NON-Atmos receivers won't see the Atmos codec, there is an embedded Dolby Digital 5.1 True HD or Plus.
"The “fallback” 5.1 or 7.1 mix that’s sent from the Blu-ray player to a receiver over HDMI is typically a lossless Dolby True HD soundtrack, not a lesser-quality, compressed version. That’s because Atmos is delivered not as a codec, but as an extension to True HD that gets folded into the bitstream to maintain backwards compatibility with older gear. When a compatible decoder is detected, the Atmos extension will be processed. When a non-compatible decoder is detected, the extension data gets ignored and you hear just the regular 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby True HD soundtrack.
Dolby Digital Plus, a codec used by video streaming services such as Netflix and Vudu, also supports Atmos. The same process at work with True HD applies here: the Atmos extension gets folded into the DD+ bitstream, and is either decoded or ignored depending on your receiver’s capabilities. A key difference between the DD+ and True HD codecs, however, is that DD+ uses lossy compression.
DTS works in a fairly similar manner, with a standard DTS core accompanied by extensions that enable more advanced formats. So, based on your receiver’s features, a DTS:X soundtrack on a disc will be decoded as DTS:X, lossless DTS-HD Master Audio, or a standard, compressed DTS mix."
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-do-older-receivers-handle-atmos-soundtracks
Right... Atmos fan boys.Geez, did you two gents suddenly go to work for Dolby?
Strilo
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Well I have no idea about the 5.1 mix, as I have an Atmos receiver (with a 5.0.0 speaker setup) and I thought the mixes were great. The stuff from 1975 on was stunning!
It appears the DTS and Atmos mixes are indeed different mixes, check out the last two waveform captures here posted by Jon, channel volume levels are different:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-to-lennon-1-minute-samples.29227/post-521168
Edited to remove ‘mixes‘ - added channel volume levels are different
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-to-lennon-1-minute-samples.29227/post-521168
Edited to remove ‘mixes‘ - added channel volume levels are different
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"Abbey Road" was the only time we broke precedent and made two different polls for two different mixes that were on the same disc. Other than that, we've never done that before, and I'm not going to do it for this release either.
You get both mixes on this disc, and they are only on this disc, so one poll is sufficient enough.
I think that we need to add a new emoticon for confusion.
Agreed. I was trying to understand why the DTS sounded different to the Atmos downmix reported here. The waveforms show the Front/Rear volume balance is different. DTS has lower volume in rears compared to DTS fronts. Atmos Rears are closer to Atmos Fronts. This would make the surround louder and hence it sounds ’better’.
I‘m going to move most this DTS/Atmos discussion to another thread so not to clutter this poll. But I encourage members with Atmos systems to comment here on any differences they hear between the DTS and Atmos tracks
harync
Senior Member
I'll add this response here as a general message for those who are not interested in dissecting DTS and Atmos differences in another thread. This is based on my experiences with my equipment, so of course others' experience may vary:
- If you have an Atmos-enabled receiver (regardless if you have height speakers), you may have a more discrete sound experience than somebody with a non-Atmos system, particularly depending on how the Atmos engineer assigned the "Bed & objects." A non-Atmos system ignores the object information and that sound is placed in 1 (or likely more channels). Atmos meta-data can assign that information anywhere (not just the heights)
- The DTS mixes on Atmos releases that I am aware of to date are the same core as the TrueHD mixes. Channel volume differences can create different experiences, but it's not like the DTS mix has instruments placed in different locations than the TrueHD core. Those differences would be based on the Atmos meta-data.
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Strilo
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Can we get Paul Hicks to do All Things Must Pass?
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