Quad LP/Tape Poll Croce, Jim: You Don't Mess Around With Jim [QS/Q8]

[EMB]

Command Quadraphonic CQD-40006.


Side 1:

1. You Don't Mess Around With Jim
2. Tomorrow's Gonna Be A Brighter Day
3. New York's Not My Home
4. Hard Time Losin' Man
5. Photographs And Memories
6. Walkin' Back To Georgia


Side 2:

1. Operator (That's Not The Way It Feels)
2. Time In A Bottle
3. Rapid Roy (The Stock Car Boy)
4. Box #10
5. A Long Time Ago
6. Hey Tomorrow


ED

 

[Q-Eight]

No Jim Croce fans? wow, tough crowd.

I'll have to say that these are some of the best GRT Q8's made. Their sound quality is above average when compared to other non-ABC GRT Q8's. Matter of fact, I'll go as far as to say the ABC/GRT Q8's sound the best, with the Arista's and Fantasy/Milestone ones coming in 2nd and 3rd respectively.

Now for the title at hand. The Jim Croce Quad mixes while hardly adventurous, do the music justice by pulling it apart enough that you almost have a feel for what went on in the studio. The mix is aggressive enough to spread everything very wide, but thankfully, nothing panning around making you nauseous.

Jim and Murray's guitars are usually panned hard left and right, background singers in the rears and one thing that's very obvious on the title track is I guess they recorded the Bass guitar amped and direct as it's most definitely amped to the right and direct to the left.

Drums are usually situated in left rear, but does change from song to song.

Jim's lyrics and vocals are second to none. Most of, if not all of his songs are from people, places or situations he himself experienced. In his live shows, he often told a short story to explain why or how the song came to be.

So, the music itself, I give a full 10. Jim Croce IS the definitive singer/songwriter. The mix, I give an 8.5 as there are a few items I disagree with, but for the most part, very enjoyable. Sound quality from the Q8 is very good. Overall Score: a solid 9.

It's a shame we lost Jim at such a young age so long ago. There's no telling where his career may have gone as he was just beginning to see the fruits of his work when he lost his life.

 

[ChristopherLees]

The qs lp is fantastic.... just playing it in 2 channel stereo is superior to the stereo lp !!...Jim's voice is a lot drier/harsher (mono sounding) on the stereo lp's...nice reverb on the quad makes this a must buy no matter whether you listen to it quad or stereo....

 

[EMB]

Although the separation is limited, it isn't bad (although there is some excessive echo on some tracks, most obviously with "Hey Tomorrow." I suppose what always bugged me about Croce is that he tried so hard to be populist that it often obscured his better tendencies--his tender love ballads, like "Time In a Bottle" and "A Long Time Ago" tend to be disparaged, and even a hit like "Operator" (one of his best, IMO) in favor of the title track (his first hit after years of trying) and "Rapid Roy," which seemed designed for the redneck trade. Like John Denver, he had a habit of wearing his heart on his sleeve to the point of being syrupy. Unlike Denver, though, he always made me feel uncomfortable--like he was telling me all this after his latest hangover and fight with the wife left him, as usual, bereft. One can only wonder how history would have treated his work had he not died so early and suddenly--he was only a year into becoming a star when that plane went down, taking down a few other veteran musicians with him.

Overall rating: 6. Croce's quad always bugged me beyond my opinion of his work, the reverb/echo never sat well; always wondered how this would have came out if mixed 'dry.'

ED

 

[CharlesLovesQuad]

I put on my stereo copy of You Don't Mess Around with Jim just now, and wow.....it plays very nicely in QS. I wasn't expecting much at all, and it sounds like what I'd expect from a QS copy. Croce was something special.

 

[lennon fan]

I give it a solid 8 as it has what it needs and leaves a bit wanting in just things like occasional over reverb, etc.
I usually play Photographs and Memories for my Jim fix, his ballads are what really send me. I Got A Name, Operator, even stuff like One Less Set Of Footsteps speak to me to this day.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I give it a solid 8 as it has what it needs and leaves a bit wanting in just things like occasional over reverb, etc.
I usually play Photographs and Memories for my Jim fix, his ballads are what really send me. I Got A Name, Operator, even stuff like One Less Set Of Footsteps speak to me to this day.

I love all those plus Lover's Cross!

 

[sjcorne]

Great Q8! Nice wide separation of the acoustic guitars in the front, background singers and drums in the rear. My only complaint is, as others have said, the reverb/echo in the rears is laid on rather thick.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I have the Q8 and the mix is quite good. Nice wide seperation, background singers in the rear. This is exactly how you handle a "man and his guitar" type act in surround (unlike Cat Stevens' quads which I always thought were faked). Only complaint is as others say, the reverb is a bit overdone.

9 from me...a lot of these ABC mixes would make great quad SACDs if the masters weren't gone

I read an article to the effect that Jim's widow has NO interest in surround remasters for any of her husband's albums. Too bad NONE of his albums were ever released even as STEREO SACDs.

 

[markshan]

I suppose what always bugged me about Croce is that he tried so hard to be populist that it often obscured his better tendencies--his tender love ballads, like "Time In a Bottle" and "A Long Time Ago" tend to be disparaged, and even a hit like "Operator" (one of his best, IMO) in favor of the title track (his first hit after years of trying) and "Rapid Roy," which seemed designed for the redneck trade. Like John Denver, he had a habit of wearing his heart on his sleeve to the point of being syrupy. Unlike Denver, though, he always made me feel uncomfortable--like he was telling me all this after his latest hangover and fight with the wife left him, as usual, bereft.

Interesting. I find Denver much more "syrupy" than Denver, though JD has some songs that I really like. What is your opinion of Harry Chapin?

 

[quicksrt]

I read an article to the effect that Jim's widow has NO interest in surround remasters for any of her husband's albums. Too bad NONE of his albums were ever released even as STEREO SACDs.

The widows do not live forever and rights are sold off and acquired and things can and do change thankfully.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

A few weeks ago my beloved Sansui QSD-1000 developed Alzheimer's. Unable to play QS the best way made me, of course, want to listen to all my QS collection again. So I resorted to my Anthem AVM-30 & dialed in the settings for QS. You Don't Mess Around with Jim is the only Croce album I own & I have thoroughly fallen in love with it again. I don't own a single James Taylor album but I have Jim Croce who could have easily rivaled him. The surround is not bombastic but fits the content perfectly. I'd say this is another excellent example how surround sound can add so much with out resorting to twirling pan pots.

One thing leads to another. Terry Cashman & Tommy West produced Croce's albums & released some of their own music. If you like Croce you would probably like Cashman & West. Available only in 2 ch stereo the music still expands quite nicely through DPL II. All in all a an uplifting & gratifying musical weekend.

 

[Doug G.]

I first became a Jim Croce fan back when my job required me to drive to a town about 30 miles away and I heard "Operator" on the radio of my '59 Chevy every day. I thought it was such a sad song.

I still remember where I was the day it was announced he had been killed. I was working in another town and sitting in the lunch room eating where they always had a local radio station playing over the speakers.

Anyway, the album is fine and I know they didn't originally release "Time in a Bottle" as a single until later on and it's one of the most beautiful songs of that era if not of all time in popular music.

9

Doug

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

I've never been a fan nor detractor of Croce's, just always found him a bit too maudlin for my tastes.

Well, last week, I tried out a Q8 rip of "You Don't Mess Around..." and while it doesn't always work, there are gems on this album both as songs and quad mixes.

And then there's "Operator," WHICH SHOULD BE USED AS A TEACHING EXAMPLE FOR DISCRETE MIXING. You've always got two instruments playing lead lines with significant call-and-response in opposing channels, which sounds FANTASTIC, and have a wonderfully organic, in-the-room-with-you woodiness to them (two acoustic guitars, and a piano). Croce's vocals are held a little to the left side in the front, and it's engaging to have the lead vocal be displaced to the side, just because it's novel.

And then you get the vocal overdubs that just ENVELOP the listener, and I get goosebumps every time. They're so amazingly lush, and so emotional, like they brought in a small choir of men who are all quietly, wistfully carrying 20 years of pain that they know they caused themselves.

There are tracks on this album that, when Mrs. Croce no longer has creative control over her husband's work, should receive new surround mixes. But if they do anything to change Barney Perkin's quad mix of "Operator," it can only be to the detriment of the music.

 

[sjcorne]

Croce's vocals are held a little to the left side in the front, and it's engaging to have the lead vocal be displaced to the side, just because it's novel.

Need to pull out my tape and re-listen, but I’d be surprised if the vocals were intentionally mixed off-center like that. It could be a head alignment issue (causing uneven treble response between the front channels) or maybe someone wasn’t careful adjusting the individual channel levels post-recording.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

Need to pull out my tape and re-listen, but I’d be surprised if the vocals were intentionally mixed off-center like that. It could be a head alignment issue (causing uneven treble response between the front channels) or maybe someone wasn’t careful adjusting the individual channel levels post-recording.

Well, that'd be both more likely, I suppose, but also disappointing, because having that off-center vocal actually sounds really good.