Dave Kerzner -The Traveler (DTS 5.1 Bluray) included in Surround

[M-K]

Dave, I think 2.0 + 5.1 (+ Atmos) is a good solution. The amount of speakers that you have to use is inversely proportional to the number of listeners.
That's my thought. Best regards,
Mike

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Dave, I think 2.0 + 5.1 (+ Atmos) is a good solution. The amount of speakers that you have to use is inversely proportional to the number of listeners.
That's my thought. Best regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike. But, that's an easy answer assuming there's room on the Blu-Ray for all three plus video etc. If it's going to be 24bit 96k either way and there's only room for either a 5.1 DTS HD MA or a 7.1 DTS HD MA which would be better? Knowing that most people have a 5.1 not a 7.1 (but some do and some have 7.1.4 or more)? That's the real question.

If one is listening on a 5.1 system would it better to have a 5.1 source vs a 7.1 source or no different? Because if it's no different then I might as well do a 7.1 mix that both 5.1 and 7.1 (and beyond) can enjoy. However, if there's any audible compromise of listening to a 7.1 mix in 5.1 then I'll just keep it 5.1 for this Hi Res Blu-Ray (and later I will do an Atmos mix stand alone Blu-Ray at a lower resolution).

 

[PK]

I'd vote for a lossless Atmos and 5.1 on Blu Ray

 

[sjcorne]

If one is listening on a 5.1 system would it better to have a 5.1 source vs a 7.1 source or no different? Because if it's no different then I might as well do a 7.1 mix that both 5.1 and 7.1 (and beyond) can enjoy. However, if there's any audible compromise of listening to a 7.1 mix in 5.1 then I'll just keep it 5.1 for this Hi Res Blu-Ray (and later I will do an Atmos mix stand alone Blu-Ray at a lower resolution).

If you listen to a 7.1 mix on a 5.1 system, the side and rear channels will be merged into a single pair of rears. Whether or not that creates any audible compromise would have to depend on the construction of the mix. For example - in the new Brian Eno FOREVERANDEVERNOMORE Atmos Blu-Ray, Brian's vocals are isolated in the two side speakers for an "inside your head" effect. If you listen on a 5.1 setup, all that information meant to appear in the middle of the soundstage goes to the rear. The listener's setup is another x-factor, as in 5.1 the two back speakers can be designated as "sides" (90-110 degrees off the sweet spot) or "rears" (135-150 degrees off the sweet spot). The Eno 5.1 fold-down with the vocals entirely in the back might sound fine with "sides" but not so much with "rears".

If you're going to only do one surround mix, it'd probably be easiest to just start in Atmos and then have the Dolby Renderer export 7.1 & 5.1 fold-downs. While mixing, you can easily switch between all three configurations to make sure it translates effectively. Or you could follow Steven Wilson's approach of first creating a dedicated 5.1 mix, then use that as the bed to build out your Atmos mix.

 

[cbmmm3]

second vote for 5.1 Bluray

 

[SomethingAnything]

Yes, I'd love 5.1 and, if room, Atmos.

7.1, speaking utterly subjectively and without any kind of technical knowledge whatsoever (and therefore possibly representative of most 'lay' listeners) feels to me like a surround audio space that never became that popular and is now being elbowed aside by Atmos. So, a lesser thing than both 5.1 or Atmos. Sorry!

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Interesting. Thanks for your responses. Yes, 7.1 is a weird little animal as it was never adopted as a surround music format and Atmos really did just take over the notion of having sides and added the ceilings which is even more challenging for people to have in their homes.

As I'm mixing the album in 5.1 right now, it seems easy for me to do it in 7.1 and I could even do it with the sides being blended with the rears in mind (although it does limit what I would normally like to do with the sides which is really an extension of the front as I said... like put stereo keys or BVs there to give guitars and other things in the front L and R more room to breathe and be heard).

I think in the end it makes more sense to just carry on with the current plan which is to do a Hi Res 24/96 5.1 mix now accompanied by hi res stereo just to make the best quality version for the most popularly owned systems (5.1). That's only included with the 3 disc box anyway. Then, in 2023 (or sooner if possible) I will do this album and all of my albums in Atmos. At that time I'll decide if I'll include a lower than 96k resolution discrete 5.1 on there or just let the Atmos fold down do its thing.

 

[SHB]

Thanks for asking for our thoughts! That's really cool of you. I am looking forward to hearing the multi-channel mix of the The Traveler.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Thanks for asking for our thoughts! That's really cool of you. I am looking forward to hearing the multi-channel mix of the The Traveler.

I like this forum (just supported it the other day) and I find these discussions interesting. I buy a lot of surround titles myself as well.

 

[cbmmm3]

I like this forum (just supported it the other day) and I find these discussions interesting. I buy a lot of surround titles myself as well.

Dave
Its awesome to have you here. Keep the questions and insights coming ! ....and the 5.1 material!
I really enjoy your music.

Static in 5.1 would be killer BTW

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Ok I have a question for you guys. If I was to upload a song in 5.1 for you to check out, what format would you even be able to play and through what? Peter mentions Flac a lot but what would play that back? Would it be one single Flac file or 6 Flac files (like compressed waves)? I'm thinking about giving you guys something but I just want to make sure you can hear it. Maybe I can encode it into DTS and do a disc image or something? I don't have a lot of time to waste on this so if anyone has some specific ideas on how to do it feel free to respond! I haven't decided yet if I'm going to but if it's easy enough and there are enough people here interested to check out a 5.1 track from my latest album "The Traveler" for free then respond below with your interest or especially if you have any ideas on how best to do it and/or how you'd be able to playback this or that format as a download. Thanks!

 

[sjcorne]

Many folks here rip all their discs to multichannel FLAC and play them back using software media players (Foobar2000, Kodi, VLC Media Player, Vox, etc) or via an external drive connected to their Blu-Ray player.

 

[peterzach]

I use an external drive hooked up to my Oppo Bluray and I absolutely love having this option as a way to listen to surround flac's.
To be able to have flac's ripped from Sacd,DTS,Bluray,Dvd Audio and then having them all in one main Surround folder it makes it so convenient.
I listen to stereo and surround flac's this way.

peter

 

[DuncanS]

I can play as a 5.1 flac file stored on my NAS, either from my Odroid N2 running Kodi, or via the Oppo 105.

 

[Q4-Bert]

My preference is also Flac 5.1, it's the most common sound format for my PC also works with Roon in multi channel.
For the full experience the original disc (or a ISO copy) is used from the NAS of Blu-ray player.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Ok cool. Thanks for the feedback! I actually have an OPPO but I've never hooked up a drive to it. I like this idea though! What I do for surround titles I buy is actually record the outputs of either the OPPO (7.1) or my Marantz which has 12 pre-amp outs into ProTools (recording software) and then I can play it back and have complete control over what I'm listening to level-wise in case I want to check something out. But, that's more of a recording engineer's rig than a listener's rig. It does sound great going into studio monitors though. Then my home theater set up has Polk Audio and I have another set up of Sonys.

So... I'll have to look up the best way to actually make a 5.1 Flac. I've never done it and I don't think ProTools will export it that way. If it does, I've never done that. What do you guys use to make Flacs yourself from discrete waves (if you do)? Also, I wonder what format of the channel order it would be. There's SMPTE or DTS or a third one. I always do DTS format (L,R,Ls,Rs,C,LFE) because I use the DTS encoder for Blu-Ray.

 

[sjcorne]

Pro-Tools will not export directly in FLAC, but there are dozens of freeware apps that will convert from WAV - FLAC Frontend, Foobar2000, AudioMuxer, Audacity, etc. I've never seen a 5.1 file in anything other than SMPTE order.

 

[SomethingAnything]

Yes, defs a Flac in 5.1. I like Foobar. I find it easy to use. Good luck.

I feel privileged you're thinking of sharing something and will certainly listen and provide objective feedback.

 

[hi-res_edition]

The majority of 5.1 FLAC's I have order the channels as follows - FL FR FC LFE SL SR
I have a couple that instead utilize FL FR FC LFE BL BR
I use dbPowerAmp's Converter tool to change from one file format to another. I don't recall if it does channel assignment in the conversion process, but surely ProTools can do that first. Glad you are moving into the surround world!

 

[barfle]

I can use my OPPO 105, my Marantz 7001, or my Roku Ultra to play 5.1 FLAC files. It’s not a problem.

I can convert WAV to FLAC using Goldwave in at least two lossless compression settings.