Dave Kerzner -The Traveler (DTS 5.1 Bluray) included in Surround

[SHB]

Received my copy of The Traveler today. Just started listening to the DTS HD Master Audio 5.1. Nice use of all the channels. Thanks Dave for making this available in 5.1. Looking forward to more of your music (and Kevin Gilbert's Thud, hint, hint) mixed in 5.1

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Received my copy of The Traveler today. Just started listening to the DTS HD Master Audio 5.1. Nice use of all the channels. Thanks Dave for making this available in 5.1. Looking forward to more of your music (and Kevin Gilbert's Thud, hint, hint) mixed in 5.1

Fantastic! Glad you're enjoying the surround mix. I find the second half of it, The Dream Realm, has even more freedom to immerse because of the nature of it being more ambient overall. Enjoy!

Btw I'm not the one they hire to mix Kevin's catalog. It's usually John Cuniberti who is a great engineer BUT I think he hates immersive formats. In fact, he said something kind of funny when discussing it on a post about it on FB with a bunch of engineers. He said Atmos is like trying to get somewhere via a carnival ride vs. a car. Something along those lines! Haha. Sometimes it can be... essentially a novelty gimmicky version of the mix. I've heard some mixes that were actually annoying and I'd never want to hear it again and RUN back to the stereo version. I won't say which album (to protect the innocent haha). But, like anything, it just has to be tastefully done IMHO.

Anyway, for albums/artists/bands I love where I don't have control of their masters I can always do a tribute album and mix THAT in Atmos or at least 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio. So.... I guess I can reveal that I'll be mixing our version of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in Atmos (with Francis Dunnery on vocals, NDV on drums, me on keys and various guests) as well as songs from Sound of Contact's Dimensionaut (which sadly itself will not likely be mixed in surround... something I wanted to happen this year for the 10th anniversary but a decision was made that essentially prevented that from happening) and something I haven't announced at all I don't think is we'll be doing a Kevin Gilbert tribute album featuring lots of people who played with him. I'll mix that in surround too. Obviously not the same as the original BUT you'll be able to hear tasteful covers of those songs all around you when that happens.

 

[Steve Schoultz]

I received my copy The Traveler special edition and I love the mix and the songs. I first saw (heard) you in the The Lamb Lies Down DVD I received as part the old Kevin Gilbert Yahoo group, Dave Kerzner on the mighty wurlitzer!

 

[SHB]

Actually, John said this on the Kevin Gilbert web page reflecting on mixing The Shaming of the True. "Suit Fugue: This shows Kevin’s brilliance as a songwriter, singer, and producer. I loved mixing this and look forward to mixing it again in 5.1 surround."
I sure hope this comes to fruition. I just love The Shaming of the True. One of my all time favorite albums.

 

[JediJoker]

Actually, John said this on the Kevin Gilbert web page reflecting on mixing The Shaming of the True. "Suit Fugue: This shows Kevin’s brilliance as a songwriter, singer, and producer. I loved mixing this and look forward to mixing it again in 5.1 surround."
I sure hope this comes to fruition. I just love The Shaming of the True. One of my all time favorite albums.

He replied to me recently saying that the 5.1 mix was not going to happen, but perhaps Atmos at some future date. No definite plans.

 

[SHB]

That will be cool if an Atmos mix of TSOTT happens some time down the road. I am looking for to DK, FD, NDV's version of The Lamb in multi channel. The Dream Realm Pt 5: Nostalgia Trip is a cool nod to the Gabriel era of Genesis. It makes me think of the 2nd half of The Waiting Room.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

He replied to me recently saying that the 5.1 mix was not going to happen, but perhaps Atmos at some future date. No definite plans.

That's vague but somewhat promising. Would be cool if it does happen. But, according to what he said, he doesn't seem to be a fan of immersive formats. It was really interesting to hear so many opinions from great engineers like John in that public discussion. It was a post on FB my friend, producer/egnineer Ross Hogarth made that had Elliot Scheiner on video talking about Atmos. Generally speaking, there were a lot of well respected veteran engineers saying they don't like immersive formats and preferred stereo. I love those guys and I understood where they were coming from. But, my contribution to the discussion was to say that it depends on the style of music (and how well it suits the format) as well as the approach one takes in doing it (something that enhances the listening experience from stereo to 3D vs. something that's distracting and gimmicky).

It was kind of hilarious in a way. I was one of the only ones in the discussion who was standing by immersive surround formats and defending it. In some ways, it was quite bold of me to be chiming in, someone with way less experience than these legendary producers and engineers. BUT, I was really speaking as someone who likes to buy Blu-Rays and listen to immersive music. From that angle, really ANY of us has a valuable opinion to offer on that subject. It's a new art and either you're someone who appreciates that art or you're not. Of course I'm preaching to the choir here in this place. A choir that's coming out of speakers all around you. Haha.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

That will be cool if an Atmos mix of TSOTT happens some time down the road. I am looking for to DK, FD, NDV's version of The Lamb in multi channel. The Dream Realm Pt 5: Nostalgia Trip is a cool nod to the Gabriel era of Genesis. It makes me think of the 2nd half of The Waiting Room.

Nostalgia Trip was intentionally a retro-Genesis nod. There's actually an extended version of that on one of the bonus discs in the 7-disc box set that goes further with that idea. But, speaking of the second half of The Waiting Room, that was kind of the idea we had on the live version we played of "Joytown" with Thud. An unexpected departure into 70's Prog that differed from the album (after my Wurly solo). That was a cool part of the band's sound that evolved when playing live.

 

[SHB]

Nostalgia Trip was intentionally a retro-Genesis nod. There's actually an extended version of that on one of the bonus discs in the 7-disc box set that goes further with that idea. But, speaking of the second half of The Waiting Room, that was kind of the idea we had on the live version we played of "Joytown" with Thud. An unexpected departure into 70's Prog that differed from the album (after my Wurly solo). That was a cool part of the band's sound that evolved when playing live.

The version of Joytown on Live at the Troubadour is so dang cool.

 

[cbmmm3]

well lookie what showed up at my work today ! Ill dive in this weekend....thanks Dave for making this happen

 

[DuncanS]

Mine arrived yesterday, a nice set. I'll try and listen to it tomorrow rather than put it on the to listen to mountain!

 

[Clement]

Me three! Looking forward to hearing it! No poll thread yet, right? Stay Surrounded, Comrades!

 

[dabl]

I am still giving all of you a 6 channel wave of the first song on it called "Another Lifetime". I might upload that this weekend actually. I'll let you know!

Still interested in hearing this if/when you get to it.

 

[DuncanS]

I got the 4 Disc Box, listened to this this afternoon, loved the music & surround mix which really suits the music, and had a surprise: Track 9 of The Traveller finished and it went to Track 10! There are an additional 15 Tracks which make up The Dream Realm, so you get over one and a half hours of great music in 5.1. Also in the Box was a CD which looks like an LP and when you touch the topside has grooves due to the paint coating - nice touch!

 

[AYanguas]

Just ordered The Traveller Blu-Ray. Hope it will arrive soon and avoid delays of the EU customs.

.... I'm experimenting with a philosophy on how to do it. For me, the goal is to make it a spacial 3D type experience without being too gimmicky or distracting. This is a challenge! Gotta be careful in my opinion. Positioning has to be well thought out as to why its there... especially with the heights because aside from ceiling reflections and jets passing by (which I do have on occasion! haha) there aren't really many things that happen up there in reality... yet surround formats can allow one to break reality and put things where they normally wouldn't be such as if the listener was standing in the middle of the band or even listening from the drummer's perspective on the drum panning (which for some reason I prefer as a listener).

Yes, it is more difficult, I think, to generate a space sensation than just moving sounds around the corners for gimmicky effects. Although some gimmicks are also welcome. For me the best thing is to combine both concepts.

...
Anyway, my general philosophy is to use the sides as a second expanded left and right and a way to separate things that were competing in the left and right stereo field. It can also be used as a sort of panoramic wide left and right in general.

Sides are interesting when generating the “inside the head effect”, specially with vocals. But they could overload the hearing, blocking the frontal sound, if the level is high. That happens with some Quad mixes, when the rears are directed to the sides.

I have 9.1.4 Atmos in my room, (7.1.4 + Wides). I am aware that very few users have Wides. But when an Atmos mix is made to make use of the Wides I really find more spaciality and the front stage really expands. There are several mixes that really sound exceptional to me due to the use of the Wides. Some examples are:

Harry Styles – Harry’s House – Main vocals only in Wides (instead of fronts).

Mister Moto – The J.B. Experience – Guitar on Wides, while Fronts have only a small guitar echo.

Again, I’m aware that very few people can enjoy those mixes if having only 7.1.4, as the Atmos renderer could just “move” the Wides content to the Fronts.

I always wish that the Atmos mixers use that Wide Atmos Objects location, instead of putting everything in the bed channels 7.1.2

The rears in an Atmos system are an interesting question of whether you'd do things differently there vs. a 5.1. Yes and no as some things you'd put there would be better in the sides.

I think the rears should have a great use in Atmos. They help to “locate” the sound around the complete 360º. The sounds coming from rears do not overload the hearing, as the sides can do. For me, subtle binaural sounds (including vocals) in sides, and a little more aggressive sounds in rears would be the best.

I look forward to your Atmos mixes.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

I got the 4 Disc Box, listened to this this afternoon, loved the music & surround mix which really suits the music, and had a surprise: Track 9 of The Traveller finished and it went to Track 10! There are an additional 15 Tracks which make up The Dream Realm, so you get over one and a half hours of great music in 5.1. Also in the Box was a CD which looks like an LP and when you touch the topside has grooves due to the paint coating - nice touch!

I'm glad you like the box set. I put a lot into it beyond what was originally planned. In fact, the original plan was just to do the main album in 5.1 and not the 15 track Dream Realm per se. But, a couple things made me do it. One was that I bought the Porcupine Tree Blu-ray and was disappointed they didn't have the bonus tracks mixed in 5.1 (which are also good tunes). So, I put myself in the position of a customer being disappointed if I did the same. But, the second reason was that The Dream Realm from disc 2 of the Special Edition was even MORE suited for surround mixing because of all the voices, sound effects and ambient layers. I HAD to do it... but the irony is that it was 2 or 3 times as much work as the main album. But, there's no question it was the right thing to do. This way you get to hear them back to back seamlessly and really "drift off" as you're supposed to conceptually with The Dream Realm (it's supposed to be like a series of dreams and kind of trippy).

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Still interested in hearing this if/when you get to it.

I still plan on doing it. I'll let you guys know!

 

[DuncanS]

I'm glad you like the box set. I put a lot into it beyond what was originally planned. In fact, the original plan was just to do the main album in 5.1 and not the 15 track Dream Realm per se. But, a couple things made me do it. One was that I bought the Porcupine Tree Blu-ray and was disappointed they didn't have the bonus tracks mixed in 5.1 (which are also good tunes). So, I put myself in the position of a customer being disappointed if I did the same. But, the second reason was that The Dream Realm from disc 2 of the Special Edition was even MORE suited for surround mixing because of all the voices, sound effects and ambient layers. I HAD to do it... but the irony is that it was 2 or 3 times as much work as the main album. But, there's no question it was the right thing to do. This way you get to hear them back to back seamlessly and really "drift off" as you're supposed to conceptually with The Dream Realm (it's supposed to be like a series of dreams and kind of trippy).

The Dream Realm works really well in surround as you say, a lot of things going on which stand out in surround

 

[GilWave]

That's vague but somewhat promising. Would be cool if it does happen. But, according to what he said, he doesn't seem to be a fan of immersive formats. It was really interesting to hear so many opinions from great engineers like John in that public discussion. It was a post on FB my friend, producer/egnineer Ross Hogarth made that had Elliot Scheiner on video talking about Atmos. Generally speaking, there were a lot of well respected veteran engineers saying they don't like immersive formats and preferred stereo. I love those guys and I understood where they were coming from. But, my contribution to the discussion was to say that it depends on the style of music (and how well it suits the format) as well as the approach one takes in doing it (something that enhances the listening experience from stereo to 3D vs. something that's distracting and gimmicky).

It was kind of hilarious in a way. I was one of the only ones in the discussion who was standing by immersive surround formats and defending it. In some ways, it was quite bold of me to be chiming in, someone with way less experience than these legendary producers and engineers. BUT, I was really speaking as someone who likes to buy Blu-Rays and listen to immersive music. From that angle, really ANY of us has a valuable opinion to offer on that subject. It's a new art and either you're someone who appreciates that art or you're not. Of course I'm preaching to the choir here in this place. A choir that's coming out of speakers all around you. Haha.

Perhaps John Cuniberti has changed his tune (pun intended) since working on Joe Satriani's 'Surfing With The Alien' Atmos mix with Dave Way last December.

 

[Dave Kerzner]

Perhaps John Cuniberti has changed his tune (pun intended) since working on Joe Satriani's 'Surfing With The Alien' Atmos mix with Dave Way last December.

Well, actually, his comments were in a thread with Dave and other top producer/engineers I'm friends with. That's how I saw it. It was a comment he made after they were talking about that album if I recall. He and a lot of those engineers find Atmos to be a gimmick you listen to once or twice for fun, but that the stereo mix is what they take seriously. That doesn't mean any of them would turn down work, though. If someone offered to hire any of them who preferred stereo to do an Atmos mix most would probably still do it.