HiRez Poll Derringer, Rick - ALL AMERICAN BOY & SPRING FEVER [SACD]

[Clint Eastwood]

I have to say, I really enjoyed reading your impressions of these two albums, and I think your critique about the differences (one being faithful to the stereo mix and one not) actually really highlight the two ends of the spectrum of what I love about quad. Some mixes are really like "remixes", the instrumental balance, tonal characteristics, vocal/solo takes or production choices are radically different, and others are like the stereo version, just the "3D glasses" version.

I enjoy the less faithful ones because you often get an alternate perspective on the studio performance, but there's certainly a risk involved when you go that route, because as you say, some tracks work and some don't. I think if you're overly familiar with a stereo version, any changes (even subtle ones) can be jarring. Sometimes these discs take a few listens to grow on you and you begin to enjoy them for what they are, rather than what they're not, or what they're missing.

With regard to All American Boy and Spring Fever, I think there's an easy answer as to why one is different and one is the same - All American Boy was recorded and mixed for stereo by Bill Szymczyk at Caribou Ranch in the summer of '73, and then remixed for quad by Don Young at CBS in NYC in early '74. Aside from being two entirely different people (presumably with different tastes and styles) I'm sure CBS's studio had different outboard gear, monitors, mixing desk etc than Caribou Ranch.

Adam's also on to something with the drier sound - I know for a fact that one of the CBS SQ mixing rules was that reverbs had to emanate from the same place as the thing causing them, ie if your guitar was in front, reverbs also had to be in front. But I also know that SQ encoding/decoding basically 'eats' reverb, even when it's done to spec (I think Adam can also verify this, comparing Surround Master decodes with Q8 equivalents) and those studios had a built-in 'discrete bypass' where they could flip a switch and hear what their mix would sound like SQ encoded and then SQ decoded, and I think they made adjustments to get the most out of SQ. That isn't to say the discrete mix was an afterthought, just that maximising compatibility and separation for SQ LP was the first concern since that was the way most people were listening to it. So perhaps they came to the conclusion that less reverb led to a better SQ decode - generally speaking engineers are very meticulous in what they do, I don't think any of these mixes are of the "screw it, it's good enough" variety.

By the same token, the CBS in-house quad remix guys were at their busiest in this era, and I'm sure they weren't as intimately familar with this music as we are 45 years later. Don Young did at least 10 quad remixes in '74, and probably more, these are the credited ones, with thanks to Adam's Unsung Heroes list:

Chicago - II
Mac Davis - Stop And Smell The Roses
Billy Joel - Piano Man
Billy Joel - Streetlife Serenade
Michel Legrand - 20 Songs of the Century
Poco - Cantamos
Barbra Streisand - The Way We Were
Edgar Winter Group - Shock Treatment
Johnny Winter - Saints and Sinners

So who knows, there are a lot of reasons things could be different, from totally by accident to totally on purpose. Some of Young's other quad mixes contain significant differences from the stereo versions, like the extra lead guitar in 25 or 6 to 4 on Chicago II for example. There's also that photograph of Derringer in the CBS quad studio with Larry Keyes - I know Keyes didn't mix this one, but maybe Derringer had some input on the quad mix and asked for changes to be made.

As for Spring Fever, the explanation for the quad and stereo mixes sounding similar is much simpler - Shelly Yakus engineered the album and mixed both versions at the same time, at the Record Plant NYC in early '75. So it was same person, same studio, same time, etc. Columbia was trying to encourage more of their artists to do that, or "record in quad" as they called it, but then by '76 seemingly everything changed - instead of doing most new albums in quad, it was more like "gold records only" for CBS and RCA, and everyone else got out of quad entirely, and then by the end of '76 RCA was done, and mid-'77 CBS was done too.

Dave....love your posts...so informative

 

[Philip Spinner]

This weekend I will be listening to the stereo mixes on these for the first time. Should be interesting. With the exception of what was played on the radio this will be all new for me in stereo. So glad they included it as well.

 

[sjcorne]

Easy 10 from me just for All American Boy...always loved the SQ disc and now I can hear it to its full potential. I would agree with Dave that differences vs. the stereo are likely for the purpose of maximizing separation of the SQ decode or simply because the remix was done by a different engineer less familiar with the material.

I do love a good Columbia rock quad mix and I hope we get more of them from D-V...do I dare ask for Edgar's They Only Come Out At Night?

 

[GOS]

Tonight, Mrs GOS and I listened to this disc....at a very high volumn. I have to say that I have reconsidered my vote of 8. I have adjusted it up to a 9.
No, not because Adam questioned me. Serious. I stand by my original vote of 8. I said it didn't hit the fidelity of Art. But, I voted a 10 for Art....so after listening to Derringer and full volumn....it was explosive. It really sounded wonderful. Geez....

9

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

...With regard to All American Boy and Spring Fever, I think there's an easy answer as to why one is different and one is the same - All American Boy was recorded and mixed for stereo by Bill Szymczyk at Caribou Ranch in the summer of '73, and then remixed for quad by Don Young at CBS in NYC in early '74. Aside from being two entirely different people (presumably with different tastes and styles) I'm sure CBS's studio had different outboard gear, monitors, mixing desk etc than Caribou Ranch...

Dave, thanks so much for all this additional info. Hearing these old quad mixes for the first time has made me really curious about this stuff. I was wondering if some of the contrast was down to the differences in studios, and workflow (and personnel of course); and you've filled in a lot of detail there. I hadn't thought of the concerns about SQ decoding, as you and Adam have highlighted, but that also sounds completely plausible. It's probably a combination of all of the above.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I, for one, am glad to hear that AAB has less reverb. Upon auditioning Rick Derringer on YouTube, I was really in to his live, rawer stuff, then I heard AAB and was slightly turned off by the gloss.
Not enough to forgo the purchase. Rock and Roll Hoochie Koo is worth the price of the 2fer alone. Can't wait to see Little Baggins boogie woogie to it!

 

[fredblue]

Tonight, Mrs GOS and I listened to this disc....at a very high volumn. I have to say that I have reconsidered my vote of 8. I have adjusted it up to a 9.
No, not because Adam questioned me. Serious. I stand by my original vote of 8. I said it didn't hit the fidelity of Art. But, I voted a 10 for Art....so after listening to Derringer and full volumn....it was explosive. It really sounded wonderful. Geez....

9

oh cripes, Gene! i'll be getting a reputation for being a hectoring pressganger at this rate!

you're right, this one really does love a good whack of the wick, I'm glad it did the trick!

tbh there's nothing wrong with an 8 at all, its a very respectable score. it was the fidelity thing I maybe questioned cos to me this disc sounds fab but you've recast your vote and made a decision putting your Garfunkel 10 into context and now a 9's just fine with you (and Jesus is just alright with me!)

 

[fredblue]

I, for one, am glad to hear that AAB has less reverb. Upon auditioning Rick Derringer on YouTube, I was really in to his live, rawer stuff, then I heard AAB and was slightly turned off by the gloss.
Not enough to forgo the purchase. Rock and Roll Hoochie Koo is worth the price of the 2fer alone. Can't wait to see Little Baggins boogie woogie to it!

i'm sure Lil' Baggy will love it!

it happens quite a bit where there's less reverb on a CBS Quad mix than in the Stereo version, can't remember any other instances off t'top of me head but I prefer a drier sound too so suits me fine!

 

[par4ken]

I never thought Dutton Vocalion would release this or The Guess Who for that mater but I'm delighted that they did. All American Boy was among my favorite albums back in the day. Some comments state that it's lyrics are a rather juvenile, but that was the market it was originally aimed for, I'm sure. I still have a cassette tape from AM radio about 1974 of "Beaker Street, KAAY Little Rock Arkansas" that includes "Joy Ride/Teenage Queen". The Same program contained Walk Like a Man by Frankie Valley, Speedo by the Coasters and Space Station Number 9 by Montrose!!! This deserves a 10 even without the addition of "Spring Fever". Columbia mixes were always somewhat exaggerated in discrete form, as they were mixed to sound good "if not excellent" in SQ form, it just blows you away at times.
I always thought that Spring Fever was only a so-so album, how ever this time around I enjoyed it almost as much as "All American Boy" (even though he looks like all American girl on the cover)! My only complaint about Spring Fever would be that it contains too many covers, although are they really covers when he was the one who actually wrote them, even though Johnny and Edgar recorded them first? The connection to Johnny and Edgar Winter is clear, so will we get some Johnny and or Edgar from Vocalion in the future? I certainly hope so!

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

BEAKER STREET !!

Man, that takes me back. I loved that show. Used to stay up until the wee hours listening to Clive Clifford, with his spacey sound effects in the background, between all that GREAT MUSIC. Sigh...

 

[H.A.L.]

<poooow> <slurp slurp> <whoooommm>

Beaker Street was the best! First time hearing King Crimson and JA's "Long John Silver". . . .

Now returning back to topic 8').

 

[lennon fan]

ah my teen rebellion years......
nice mix, fun memories....

 

[quicksrt]

If AAB is a 9 and Spring Fever is a 7, we are looking at a vote here of an 8 overall.

I need to listen some more over the weekend but I am inclined to save the 9s and 10s for Edgar or Johnny, that other BOC, or Waylon, Jerry Reed, type mind blowers.

Then again two albums for the "nice price" of one counts for something rather than against it right?

I still come up with an 8 until I've listened some more.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I look at it like, "All American Boy" with a lot of bonus tracks. I gave it a 9.

 

[Jeff ss]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this Multichannel SACD release from Dutton Vocalion of the two classic Rick Derringer albums "All American Boy" and "Spring Fever". This Multichannel SACD release features the Quadraphonic mixes of both albums, available commercially for the first time since the 1970s!



All American Boy
LP KZ 32481 (1973) STEREO/ZQ 32481 QUADRAPHONIC
1: ROCK AND ROLL, HOOCHIE KOO (Derringer)
2: JOY RIDE (Derringer)
3: TEENAGE QUEEN (Derringer)
4: CHEAP TEQUILA (Derringer)
5: UNCOMPLICATED (Derringer)
6: HOLD (Derringer; Smith)
7: THE AIRPORT GIVETH (THE AIRPORT TAKETH AWAY) (Derringer)
8: TEENAGE LOVE AFFAIR (Derringer)
9: IT’S RAINING (Derringer)
10: TIME WARP (Derringer)
11: SLIDE ON OVER SLINKY (Derringer)
12: JUMP, JUMP, JUMP (Derringer)
Arranger (strings): Paul Harris

Spring Fever
LP PZ 33423 (1975) STEREO/PZQ 33423 QUADRAPHONIC
13: GIMME MORE (Derringer)
14: TOMORROW (Derringer)
15: DON’T EVER SAY GOODBYE (Derringer)
16: STILL ALIVE AND WELL (Derringer)
17: ROCK (Derringer)
18: HANG ON SLOOPY (Russell; Farrell)
19: ROLL WITH ME (Derringer)
20: WALKIN’ THE DOG (Thomas)
21: HE NEEDS SOME ANSWERS (Derringer)
22: SKYSCRAPER BLUES (Derringer)
Recorded at The Record Plant, New York [13-16, 18-22]; Caribou Ranch, Colorado & The Record Plant, New York [17]

Multi-ch Stereo
All tracks available in stereo and multi-channel

SA-CD
This hybrid CD can be played on any standard CD players

CDSML8540

Wow! I just ordered this! I have picked up a vinyl of Pat Travers, and can't stop listening! Listening to it is like reinventing music...This guitar oriented, boogie rock just makes me groove...

I will surely rate it as soon as I get it! Can't wait!

 

[quicksrt]

"Uncomplicated" does simply rock like hell no doubt about. Classiest use of cowbell I can recall. It's a great riff, but Rick is so committed vocally is what makes it irresistible.

 

[fredblue]

I look at it like, "All American Boy" with a lot of bonus tracks. I gave it a 9.

nice way to look at it!

especially as "Rock" is a leftover from the All American Boy sessions, its pretty much a bonus track anyway!

looooove the mix on "Rock".. all those bonkers synths and effects whooshing away in the rears always brings a big fat smile whenever I play this SACD, which is quite often

still a QQ Poll "10" chez moi, a 10 that goes upto 11 on the weekend..!!

"ROCK...!!!!!"

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

Yes! I was a newly-minted Return To Forever fan at the time, so when I heard Chick Corea's frantic Minimoog on Spring Fever, it was like a crossover episode or something! And the way Rick's backward guitar solo comes crawling out of the corner is some sweet evil indeed.

Also dig the great John Siegler on bass guitar (apparently on every song except "Rock"), who I knew from Todd Rundgren's Utopia. When I saw them live, he looked like he was having such a great time on stage, and you can hear it in his playing!

I was just out of high school when Spring Fever came around, so it didn't imprint on me in quite the same way as All American Boy, but I still love it. And I enjoy this quad mix more every time I hear it! Who knew we'd ever get to hear this stuff like this! Wow.

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

"Uncomplicated" does simply rock like hell no doubt about. Classiest use of cowbell I can recall. It's a great riff, but Rick is so committed vocally is what makes it irresistible.

Yowzah! This was one of several tunes from this LP that was covered by the band I ran sound for back then, and it never failed to get the punters off their butts & out on the dance floor! The title says it all.

 

[MIDIQ]

Wow, this one really grew on me, first listen i was thinking i would vote 8, but by the third listen, it was a 9 almost a 10. I ended voting a 9. Really great quad and music, i liked both albums, except for a couple of songs. I can't quit listening to this one, i put it on the shelf and a couple days later i go back and get it out to listen to again. Super.