Dialog Norm Levels for Music Blu-rays

[mandrix]

Interesting. I don't know the answer but remember some Onkyo models have been mentioned in the aforementioned avsforum thread which is the most comprehensive exploration of this I've seen in terms of how any given AVR handles dolby dialnorm. Perhaps the default setting is off for that one and possibly the other Denon? This kind of testing is exactly what is documented in that avsforum thread but including many models.

I have to say I'd kill for one of those models that had zero change in volume.

It's becoming clear to me now how someone waving their hands about this might be looked at as a bit daft. If one didn't have the problem one might simply shrug their shoulders and think 'not sure what's up with that poor bastard's system'.

I can tell you if you *do* have the problem and have *any* kind of ear, it will drive you straight out of your mind, or at least to Apple Music and simply be done with it.

Well on my system, that's only with Atmos lossless. Atmos lossy I can indeed tell a difference in volume.

 

[himey]

I can tell you if you *do* have the problem and have *any* kind of ear, it will drive you straight out of your mind

The new Billy Joel is especially annoying because only one track is off and gets loud. The last track is a bit off but isn't nearly as bad. A little bit of quality control would go a long way.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I seem to remember back in the mid 2000's, some DVD releases of 'Peter Gabriel Play: The Videos' had issues with Dialnorm related to the dts stream. I bought both the NTSC and PAL versions of the disc.

 

[mandrix]

There was an Atmos lossy album on one of the streamers a while back. Someone had "captured" it, and I had as usual for the streamers really crank the volume up. On one track they must have had the dialnorm set differently because the volume got really loud compared to the other tracks and I had to grab the remote and turn it down quickly.
I've run into that a few times, real jolt and a pita.

 

[mandrix]

With just a few quick tests, the display on the AVR seems to usually show Dialnorm as "+4" briefly when playing lossless Atmos. With other codecs such as DTS-HD it seems to vary.

 

[tlake6659]

With just a few quick tests, the display on the AVR seems to usually show Dialnorm as "+4" briefly when playing lossless Atmos. With other codecs such as DTS-HD it seems to vary.

For what titles?

 

[jimfisheye]

+4 dbu is the standard full signal level for balanced audio connections
-10 dbV is the standard full signal level for unbalanced audio connections
(Those are the standard units used for each. Why are different units used? Mom says "because". Different zero reference between them. +4 is 12db or 4x louder than -10.)

We see "+4" and "-10" as shorthand printed next to audio jacks often enough.
So is that telltale meaning to say "full level" by saying "+4"?
I wouldn't have guessed this kind of shorthand for a more consumer aimed AVR. But it's the exact shorthand labeling you'd see on a mixing board. A switchable output will have the switch simply labeled +4 and -10.

 

[mandrix]

For what titles?

All Atmos BD rips AFAIK. I rip to .iso and play with PowerDVD. I have several hundred and I'm not going to test every one, obviously. But it seems to be the norm for my AVR.

 

[AYanguas]

With just a few quick tests, the display on the AVR seems to usually show Dialnorm as "+4" briefly when playing lossless Atmos. With other codecs such as DTS-HD it seems to vary.

+4 dBu is an indication of line level voltage, at the physical connection, as @jimfisheye says.

Dialnorm is a software metadata parameter from Dolby, that can be processed by Dolby decoders.

DTS-HD has nothing to do with Dolby.

 

[mandrix]

+4 dBu is an indication of line level voltage, at the physical connection, as @jimfisheye says.

Dialnorm is a software metadata parameter from Dolby, that can be processed by Dolby decoders.

DTS-HD has nothing to do with Dolby.

I explained that the display says the number and the word Dialnorm.
I know what Dialnorm is.
I never said DTS-HD had anything to do with Dolby.

To be clear.

 

[mandrix]

word.

 

[Zacabeb]

The offset for dialnorm has been changed from -31 dB representing unity to -27 dB representing unity in order to put Dolby Digital at the same average playback level as DTS. This means if dialnorm is -31, there will be a +4 dB boost. This has carried over so even Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD content (DTS-HD HR and MA can contain the dialnorm parameter) are offset.

I don't know if that change was originally mandated by Dolby, THX, or something manufacturers have done themselves. My Yamaha receivers have both done this.

When it comes to dialnorm, it's important to remember that it doesn't only indicate if the soundtrack should be attenuated, but it also marks the center of the null band for dynamic range compression upon playback, protecting that region. If it's set arbitarily, the DRC that's part of the Dolby codecs won't perform well for those that need or want to use it. The behavior of DRC (amount of compression and the size of the null band) is controlled by the DRC profile applied during encoding. DRC can be defeated in encoding if desired, but the manufacturers' own night modes may still use dialnorm for reference.

 

[mandrix]

The offset for dialnorm has been changed from -31 dB representing unity to -27 dB representing unity in order to put Dolby Digital at the same average playback level as DTS. This means if dialnorm is -31, there will be a +4 dB boost. This has carried over so even Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD content (DTS-HD HR and MA can contain the dialnorm parameter) are offset.

I don't know if that change was originally mandated by Dolby, THX, or something manufacturers have done themselves. My Yamaha receivers have both done this.

When it comes to dialnorm, it's important to remember that it doesn't only indicate if the soundtrack should be attenuated, but it also marks the center of the null band for dynamic range compression upon playback, protecting that region. If it's set arbitarily, the DRC that's part of the Dolby codecs won't perform well for those that need or want to use it. The behavior of DRC (amount of compression and the size of the null band) is controlled by the DRC profile applied during encoding. DRC can be defeated in encoding if desired, but the manufacturers' own night modes may still use dialnorm for reference.

Nice. Thanks for the info.