Dolby Atmos on MacOS

[humprof]

MP4 is lossy not lossless

I'm quite aware of that. (Actually, I believe mp4 is technically capable of supporting TrueHD--see the table "Video container support for audio coding formats" in the "Audio coding formats support" section of this Wikipedia page--but as far as I know, that capability has only been explored on an experimental basis. In any case, no currently available software will support playback of mp4 with TrueHD, and every commercially available Atmos mp4 file I've seen uses a lossy audio codec.)

What we need to get a giant step forward in this issue is lossless: truehd or dts h-ma with Atmos, playing in MacOS with a third-party app

Agreed. As I say: Elmedia for Mac will apparently do that right now, as long as you're willing to pay for the "Pro" version. (I'm not.) I expect--hope--that other third-party media players for Mac will add an HDMI passthrough setting once the Sequoia OS is out of beta.

 

[Peeties]

We have to wait till end of coming month, but i ‘am also afraid that Apple only allowed lossy and not lossless

 

[jimfisheye]

Can anyone with an Intel i7 Mac and specifically not having an approved Atmos device connected say if the Atmos controls in the Music app are still blanked out in Sequoia? (Some newer Mac's themselves are whitelisted as approved devices, FYI. So someone with an i7 machine that is not approved.)

I made an installer for the Sequoia beta. It hangs on launch on all my i7 machines. This is either too early a beta and maybe Apple Silicon only at present or maybe I've actually reached the final MacOS with Sonoma.

I'm not holding my breath expecting amnesty for the approved device thing, mind you. Just figured it was worth a try. Should probably keep digging to find the plist or xml file with that device whitelist and liberate Monterey. Kind of hoped someone with better tinkering skills would have found that by now!

Yes, I know this is for lossy streaming with the Music app only! I'm not doing pass-through to any hardware device.

 

[Franck]

With a recent upgrade I had lost my 5.1.4 setup.

But I found this utility to change the audio device from the command line (https://github.com/deweller/switchaudio-osx ) and I modified it and added a function and I restored my 5.14 setup.

Note my speaker assignment is not classic, so you may need to reorder the layout ChannelDescription list.

As is, this patch would not be accepted, I'll try to make it more generic and contribute back to the utility, if not I'll maintain my own fork.

OSStatus setSpeakerLayout(ASDeviceType typeRequested) {
    AudioDeviceID currentDeviceID = kAudioDeviceUnknown;
    char currentDeviceName[256];
    UInt32 propertySize;
   
    currentDeviceID = getCurrentlySelectedDeviceID(typeRequested);
    getDeviceName(currentDeviceID, currentDeviceName);
   
    AudioObjectPropertyAddress propertyAddress = {
        .mSelector  = kAudioDevicePropertyPreferredChannelLayout,
        .mScope     = kAudioDevicePropertyScopeOutput,
        .mElement   = kAudioObjectPropertyElementMaster,
    };
   
    if (AudioObjectHasProperty(currentDeviceID, &propertyAddress)) {
        propertySize = 0;
       
        AudioObjectGetPropertyDataSize(currentDeviceID, &propertyAddress, 0, NULL, &propertySize);
        AudioChannelLayout* layout = (AudioChannelLayout*)malloc(propertySize);
       
        // 5.1.4 Atmos L R C LFE Ls Rs Vhl Vhr Ltr Rtr

        //layout->mChannelLayoutTag = kAudioChannelLayoutTag_Atmos_5_1_4;
        layout->mNumberChannelDescriptions = 10;
       
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[0].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_Left;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[1].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_Right;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[5].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_Center;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[4].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_LFEScreen;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[2].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_LeftSurround;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[3].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_RightSurround;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[6].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_VerticalHeightLeft;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[7].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_VerticalHeightRight;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[8].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_LeftTopRear;
        layout->mChannelDescriptions[9].mChannelLabel = kAudioChannelLabel_RightTopRear;
       
        for (UInt32 i = 0; i < layout->mNumberChannelDescriptions; i++) {
            layout->mChannelDescriptions[i].mChannelFlags = kAudioChannelFlags_AllOff;
        }
       
        return AudioObjectSetPropertyData(currentDeviceID, &propertyAddress, 0, NULL, propertySize, layout);
    }
    return 0;
}

 

[Franck]

Submitted a PR, not sure when it will be accepted.
I wrote more about it here:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/107691361?utm_campaign=postshare_creator

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Submitted a PR, not sure when it will be accepted.
I wrote more about it here:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/107691361?utm_campaign=postshare_creator

Hi Franck, it looks like your PR has been merged. Oops, i see you have your own space and it hasn't been merged. My fault.

 

[Franck]

Hi Franck, it looks like your PR has been merged. Oops, i see you have your own space and it hasn't been merged. My fault.

no worries.
The PR is here https://github.com/deweller/switchaudio-osx/pull/68 if you want to leave a comment in the PR, this would help and that would be awesome. I sent an email to the maintainers as there are several PR in the queue that have not be actioned. So I don't know if the project is still maintained.
I could make it as a separate utility, but I prefer if it is integrated in a larger project.

 

[Peeties]

Now the public beta sequioa is available, are there maybe some testers to check the possibility of lossless passthrough over hdmi

 

[Peeties]

Sequioa is out since last week, i saw the support page from Apple reporting only lossy formats and only for Macs with Apple chip, can someone confirm this, or at the other side has tried lossless and intel macs and was maybe successful?

 

[Franck]

Sequioa is out since last week, i saw the support page from Apple reporting only lossy formats and only for Macs with Apple chip, can someone confirm this, or at the other side has tried lossless and intel macs and was maybe successful?

Reading from this page, they would have to move to DolbyTrueHD which is a codec that compress audio less drastically.
The Dolby Atmos you get on Apple Music needs 768kb/s of bandwidth for up to 16 clusters of objects. TrueHD keeps the same number of clusters but allow to a bandwidth up to 6Mb/s. This is what is used on BluRay Disks.

The Atmos master has up to 128 objects.

Interestingly consumer Atmos is 9.1.6 channels max (16 objects).

 

[mandrix]

Apple sucks. There, I said it. Milk for every dollar. It surpasses my meager understanding why bitstreaming lossless codecs are anathema to Apple.
Way way back I went with MS, not because I was particularly enthusiastic, but because of the lack of restriction on coding programs that....worked.
I think when Jobs passed, it all went to hell at Apple. I mean give the devil his due, he was innovative and creative, even though he may have had a vision of wealth and been somewhat strange.

 

[jimfisheye]

I thought Apple died with Jobs as well. It's all weapons grade planned obsolescence now. I don't consider anything with a hard drive soldered in even remotely reasonable. DIY when it's time to move forward again but there's no reason to get extreme and consider Microsoft.

Anyway, I installed beta Sequoia a month ago to check out. The Atmos controls in the Music app that were blanked out previously when you didn't have an approved Atmos device connected are now visible with no approved device connected. I don't know if this means the approved device requirement is dropped or they're just doing it a different way. I haven't grabbed a subscription yet to test the theory. Guessing still locked out and not wanting to deal with cancelling a subscription. Hoping someone else might test the theory and chime in first.

The Music app would still be lossy only and lock out the TrueHD+Atmos from bluray/download. That hasn't changed.

I also see a passthrough option in said Atmos controls, for all you passthrough needing listeners. Of course this might still hinge on an approved device being connected too. I'd love to see someone with a Music subscription test this! (Pull the plug on the AppleTV or whatever your approved device is to test that theory, please.) I don't know if I only need a subscription to open up streaming or if I also still need to spoof an approved device being connected.

FYI, Loopback would not install in Sequoia. Too new. The free Blackhole app did though.

 

[mandrix]

I thought Apple died with Jobs as well. It's all weapons grade planned obsolescence now. I don't consider anything with a hard drive soldered in even remotely reasonable. DIY when it's time to move forward again but there's no reason to get extreme and consider Microsoft.

Anyway, I installed beta Sequoia a month ago to check out. The Atmos controls in the Music app that were blanked out previously when you didn't have an approved Atmos device connected are now visible with no approved device connected. I don't know if this means the approved device requirement is dropped or they're just doing it a different way. I haven't grabbed a subscription yet to test the theory. Guessing still locked out and not wanting to deal with cancelling a subscription. Hoping someone else might test the theory and chime in first.

The Music app would still be lossy only and lock out the TrueHD+Atmos from bluray/download. That hasn't changed.

I also see a passthrough option in said Atmos controls, for all you passthrough needing listeners. Of course this might still hinge on an approved device being connected too. I'd love to see someone with a Music subscription test this! (Pull the plug on the AppleTV or whatever your approved device is to test that theory, please.) I don't know if I only need a subscription to open up streaming or if I also still need to spoof an approved device being connected.

FYI, Loopback would not install in Sequoia. Too new. The free Blackhole app did though.

I have no words of wisdom to give toward either Apple or MS. But it's always been true that Windows has been a more open platform for development.
Recall many years ago having a work break with a bright eyed young intern in IT at the production plant when I was working in R&D.
I asked him what his future plans were. I recall with much enthusiasm he replied that he was going to write Windows apps. I hope the young man exceeded his dreams.

 

[jimfisheye]

I don't think there are any good words of wisdom for either to give! Working with audio with Macs all this time, it appeared from this end like MS was the closed off system that needed DIY for everything while Mac just worked. Sure doesn't look that way anymore today! I see Linux versions for pro software now. Reaper and Davinci Resolve for a while now. Utilities like ffmpeg. Will that be the way forward now?

I started using Protools back when it was the only choice and Mac only like everyone else. (Back when it was called TDM.) So some of that thinking comes from that. After upgrading to Reaper, the Reaper+Mac combo is unstoppable and I'm hesitant to change!

Honestly, I see some solid reviews on their new CPUs and I am curious but there's no way I'd buy one of their new soldererd up, approved device needing contraptions!

 

[barfle]

Sequioa is out since last week, i saw the support page from Apple reporting only lossy formats and only for Macs with Apple chip, can someone confirm this, or at the other side has tried lossless and intel macs and was maybe successful?

Just bought my mac mini (I already have an ipad and iphone) two days ago. Tons to explore, and with Apple’s policy of virtually nonexistent instructions, it’s going to take me a while to dig down to MCH audio (although I did see that they have it available via HDMI).

 

[barfle]

I don't think there are any good words of wisdom for either to give! Working with audio with Macs all this time, it appeared from this end like MS was the closed off system that needed DIY for everything while Mac just worked. Sure doesn't look that way anymore today! I see Linux versions for pro software now. Reaper and Davinci Resolve for a while now. Utilities like ffmpeg. Will that be the way forward now?

I started using Protools back when it was the only choice and Mac only like everyone else. (Back when it was called TDM.) So some of that thinking comes from that. After upgrading to Reaper, the Reaper+Mac combo is unstoppable and I'm hesitant to change!

Honestly, I see some solid reviews on their new CPUs and I am curious but there's no way I'd buy one of their new soldererd up, approved device needing contraptions!

To me, Linux is a niche market like quad records. Only the true geeks (like me) will bother with it. I’ve fiddled with it,but “intuitive” is not a word I’d ever use to describe it. Two 1000-page books, and I still can’t get anything useful done without one or both of them open.

 

[mkt]

Just to show it all depends on where you're coming from, linux is my happy place, macOS I've gotten used to, and windows there be dragons (only used for MMH).

 

[jimfisheye]

Isn't is just following that computers are becoming niche tools? Turns out the "computer boom" was more a social media boom that happened to need the computer tech of the time. Kids are on their phones with that now and they don't even know how to use computers. Home audio is even moving away from computer based for some - look at all the stand alone hardware users around here! Look at what Dolby is pulling with their Atmos decoder!

It looks like Linux might be turning into the pro OS in the aftermath? Or it just looks more friendly to me being Unix based like MacOS.

Haha, that MMH app is the one single app I'd be interested in that seems to be genuinely Windows only and genuinely not available!

 

[mandrix]

Well how many of these media players can play without ripping files? I mean I don't use one so I have no clue, but obviously except for disc players, one still needs a computer to rip the files.
Then there is digital storage. I have several RAID arrays on my main pc for music storage.
True some are happy with playing discs only, and whatever works for you is good I always say.
As for the Linux universe, I've been out of most things UNIX for many years but there are still plenty of people that love it.

 

[zdjh22]

Just to show it all depends on where you're coming from, linux is my happy place, macOS I've gotten used to, and windows there be dragons (only used for MMH).

Me too, Linux since 1994 (jeez I’m old). Mac for my wife and for the built-in Atmos renderer (alas only to 7.1.4). Windows for astrophotography (telescope and related hardware control can be done elsewhere, but much more is available for Windows) and ripping (DVD-A’s and BluRays).

Only the availability of WSL for Windows (running a Ubuntu distribution with a Cygwin X-server so I get my beloved xterms and full access to Windows drives and file systems with a competent shell and command set) keeps me sane on that platform. Virtualization is a wonderful thing.