Dual Layer DVD-Audio/CD

[Lawrence Schulman]

HEADLINE NEWS - www.hodie-world.com/news.htm

DVD-Audio Hybrid format / Dual Layer DVD-Audio/CD - "The end of SACD !?!"

November 22, 2002 —


The DVD Forum has confirmed the development of a dual-layer, stereo CD/multichannel DVD-A hybrid disc according to reports appearing the

second week of November. An emerging CD/DVD-A hybrid could be compatible with the world's millions of CD and DVD players, eliminating the

necessity for consumers to buy new machines before being absolutely convinced by the outstanding advantages of DVD-Audio format.

Backward-compatibility with the CD format seems only now to be working well for SACD. Many music fans have purchased the high-resolution

discs without even knowing that they are something special. In the case of the recently reissued Rolling Stones recordings, the news about the

SACD layer wasn't on the discs' covers, but buried in the accompanying booklets.

DVD-Audio may take a similar approach, in light of some marketing studies that indicate consumers may balk at the idea of buying new,

dedicated hardware when they already own CD and DVD players. As with multichannel DVD-A content could be enjoyed at a later date, while the

stereo CD tracks could be enjoyed immediately.

The DVD Forum has issued a call for technology proposals, with preliminary discussions to take place at the group's next meeting, set for

November 28 in Tokyo. "We strongly support a change in the DVD-A specifications to enable DVD players to distinguish between a CD and a

DVD layer," said Paul Vidich, executive vice president for strategic planning and business development at Warner Music Group, a major

supporter of DVD-Audio. "We believe that this flexibility is very important to the new format because it will permit content companies to put out

dual-layer discs."

As soon as the format will be released HODIE will launch all their featured and upcoming releases in DVD-Audio Hybrid format / Dual Layer

DVD-Audio/CD.

 

[AllAroundSurround]

Well, I guess this confirms the previous posts on this !
This just might give DVD-A an "in"! All It will take is something like the Pink Floyd D.S.O.T.M. to put it over the edge !
Rob

 

[bmoura]

One thing Hodie didn't mention is this little tidbit from the end of that article:

"DVD Forum secretariat Hideyuki Irie acknowledged that the organization "intends to study the creation of a specification for dual-layer multi-format support," but noted that the Forum "unfortunately has no rights" to the CD format family. The Forum's DVD-Audio Promotion Council will hold a meeting in Tokyo Nov. 28 to discuss the format's market, current install base and authoring tools."

Hmm.....

 

[John Kotches]

Yes Brian, but all is negotiable.

Not having rights doesn't mean they can't acquire the rights from the patent holder (Sony).

If it means turning away "free money" in the way of patent licensing fees, I think the board of directors at Sony will frown upon denying the utilization of the patent.

I know if I were a shareholder, I'd certainly want to pick up a source of revenue for which the companies R&D was a fait accompli.

Regards,

 

[bmoura]

We will see. Seems to me there are some other questions on the proposal beyond just getting a license that haven't been discussed yet. Things like:
* How will the hybrid CD layer be added to the DVD-A spec? (Single sided like SACD or DVD bonded to label-side of CD?)
* How long will it take for the DVD-A Forum to finish the design, shake the bugs out of the concept and do beta testing of a Hybrid DVD-A disc?
* Will new pressing lines need to be built & tested before Hybrid DVD-A discs can be produced?
* Will new players be needed if you want to switch layers and do a CD/DVD-A comparison?
* How will existing players handle a new DVD-A Hybrid disc that presents them with both a CD and DVD-A layer?

Lots of interesting questions. Hopefully the reporters at the November 28th event will get the answers to them and report back to us. Stay tuned.....

 

[John Kotches]

Brian,

Your points are valid, but aren't at all covered in the statement you quoted from, are they?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>* How will the hybrid CD layer be added to the DVD-A spec? (Single sided like SACD or DVD bonded to label-side of CD?)[/quote]

The path of least resistance, and maximum compatibility says that "flipper" discs should be the path of choice. You put the DVD-A side up for DVD mode, and the CD side up for CD mode.

The technique for bonding the two sides is already "in the can" so to speak, and would be identical to DVD-18s.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>* How long will it take for the DVD-A Forum to finish the design, shake the bugs out of the concept and do beta testing of a Hybrid DVD-A disc?[/quote]

Your assumption is that no design effort has been undertaken. It is more likely that the announcement was not made until very late in the design phase.

I know on things that I work with, we begin development efforts while simultaneously pursuing licensing arrangements.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>* Will new pressing lines need to be built & tested before Hybrid DVD-A discs can be produced?

* Will new players be needed if you want to switch layers and do a CD/DVD-A comparison?

* How will existing players handle a new DVD-A Hybrid disc that presents them with both a CD and DVD-A layer?
[/quote]

See above, it depends on whether these are flipper discs ala a DVD-18 or if they're going to stupidly limit themselves to a single 4.7GB layer for the DVD content and do a DVD and CD layer on one side only.

My vote is for a flipper, as it means zero compatibility issues with the installed base of DVD or CD players.

If it's hybrid media ala SACD, then these are valid concerns.

Regards,

 

[Frank]

The new Sonopress productionline in Germany can do
Hybrids
CD
DVD
DVD Audio
sacd single layer.

It's a versatile machine. Replicating is not the issue.

The only real problems are (perhaps) licensing.
and/or players not able to switch between layers.
Most DVD Audio players supposed to default to the cd layer of a hybrid because the hires layer is not recognized as valid.
But will it default to the hires layer if the disc is a hybrid DVD Audio?

The licensing issue is about the cd technologie and the hybrid single sided technologie.

The cd technology patents are about to or are expired. A patent gives a manufacturer the right to use the technology exclusively in his own product. This means that philips/sony cannot control the cd technology anymore.

The other issue the dual layer technologie is more tricky as it depends on how the patent is filed.
The dual layer technology is ( probably ? ) controlled by the DVD Forum and a dual layer with a hires and a cd layer is just a subset. However the technology for the special bonding technique required for a hires and cd hybrid is developed by sony.

It will depend mostly on how the patents are formulated.

Frank