HiRez Poll Emerson Lake & Palmer - BRAIN SALAD SURGERY [DVD-A/BDA] [2014 MIX]
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Amazon UK had some promotion going on - the box set with shipping was only 52.08 - it said it was on sale for 34.99 pounds (54.44 dollars) which did not even include shipping, but when you add to your basket the price lowers to 29.16 (45.37 dollars) plus 3.08 pounds shipping (4.79) shipping so all together 32.24 pounds or 50.16 dollars - somehow my grand total was 52.08 dollars though - must have got me for 2.00 taxes or something......
Florida pays taxes now on Amazon because they opened up a distribution center somewhere here..............grrrrrrrrr
I checked CDJapan and there the 3 disc set with shipping was 49.07 dollars SAL shipping..........so for another 3.01 Snood gets the Box Set from Amazon UK :banana:
Here is the link.........don;t be fooled by the 34.99 - put it in your cart and check out the promotion price
Thank You cupboy :snoodhug:
Review to come sooooooooon
The reason the price reduces down is that the tax UK people pay is removed. There is no tax of any kind for anyone in the USA even if Amazon.com (USA Amazon) charges tax in your state.
I'm not buying the product anyway. These newer dvd-audio disks won't load or play in my Panasonic machine (inventor of the dvd-audio format!). I have the multi-channel SACD and the older dvd-audio (this one plays).
I'm not buying the product anyway. These newer dvd-audio disks won't load or play in my Panasonic machine (inventor of the dvd-audio format!). I have the multi-channel SACD and the older dvd-audio (this one plays).
Received this (2014 remixes, 2CD + DVDA) today from Japan...played the 5.1 mix through...good god, what an inconsistent mess. What on *earth* is happening with the bass levels throughout the album (one moment AWOL, the next moment totally overbearing) I really do not know. (I *do* know that the bass part is sometimes just KE's left hand in the original mix, sometimes it's just Lake, sometimes it's both of them -- but in the original mix the bass levels don't vary THIS MUCH). Someone needs to take Jakko aside and have him listen to this thing on a properly calibrated system. Then advise him that while the original mix was drenched in reverb, it's possible to take 'authenticity' too far...maybe he didn't need to slather *this much* on. Then point out the parts of the mix he seems to have omitted and ask him wtf? (electric bass part under 'and did the countenance divine'...? Gone. Doubled piano/bass in parts of KE 2nd Impression? Gone. Weird mishmash organ solo remix in KE 3rd Impression...wtf?).
Seriously, I really don;t know what to say, I can't believe it passed quality control like this. Parts sound very promising -- I like that JJ left a lot of the synth lines in the front channels (whereas the old DVD-A often stuck them in surround) ---but , man, as a whole, it's *absurdly* hit or miss...as in 'what was he thinking??'
(In its favor, they did locate the correct vocal take for 'Benny the Bouncer' ....still have the 'wrong' one for Jerusalem, though)
Seriously, I really don;t know what to say, I can't believe it passed quality control like this. Parts sound very promising -- I like that JJ left a lot of the synth lines in the front channels (whereas the old DVD-A often stuck them in surround) ---but , man, as a whole, it's *absurdly* hit or miss...as in 'what was he thinking??'
(In its favor, they did locate the correct vocal take for 'Benny the Bouncer' ....still have the 'wrong' one for Jerusalem, though)
In light of the recent release of "Trilogy" (which I will write a review for in the next day or so), I decided to revisit both the old BSS mix on SACD along with this new mix by Jakko on DVD-A, and with the exception of "Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression" (featuring an unwarranted bass solo by Greg Lake), this new DVD-A is IMO vastly superior to the original surround mix.
Going back and revisiting both mixes made me aware of how incredibly discrete Jakko's mix is. The older one appeared to be more of a front three channel mix with occasional elements coming forth from the surrounds or being passed around all channels. I was also finding that the older mix was brighter, with a little more compression and time-based effects (like reverb) present, making the mix seem a lot more distant at times. On the other hand, Jakko's mix is very direct and full, providing an enriching and enveloping experience that I continuously come back to, whereas I haven't touched my SACD since the new DVD-A arrived.
The "Karn Evil 9" Bass Solo is indeed very unfortunate, but I usually switch to the stereo mix at that point and process it through the 5-channel surround decoder setting on my receiver for a more pleasant listening experience that tops both surround mixes. I may lose discreteness this way, but I like the tonality and balances much more.
I honestly feel like this disc would be held in higher regard were it not for the original DVD-A, which people got used to hearing before this one came along.
I do feel however that 'Trilogy' is a superior mix, but then again, there is no other point of comparison on that one besides stereo.
Just my $0.02 for what it's worth. Ymmv, especially since the surround mix of this one is not available domestically in a cheaper, more convenient package.
Going back and revisiting both mixes made me aware of how incredibly discrete Jakko's mix is. The older one appeared to be more of a front three channel mix with occasional elements coming forth from the surrounds or being passed around all channels. I was also finding that the older mix was brighter, with a little more compression and time-based effects (like reverb) present, making the mix seem a lot more distant at times. On the other hand, Jakko's mix is very direct and full, providing an enriching and enveloping experience that I continuously come back to, whereas I haven't touched my SACD since the new DVD-A arrived.
The "Karn Evil 9" Bass Solo is indeed very unfortunate, but I usually switch to the stereo mix at that point and process it through the 5-channel surround decoder setting on my receiver for a more pleasant listening experience that tops both surround mixes. I may lose discreteness this way, but I like the tonality and balances much more.
I honestly feel like this disc would be held in higher regard were it not for the original DVD-A, which people got used to hearing before this one came along.
I do feel however that 'Trilogy' is a superior mix, but then again, there is no other point of comparison on that one besides stereo.
Just my $0.02 for what it's worth. Ymmv, especially since the surround mix of this one is not available domestically in a cheaper, more convenient package.
Except, the 'bass solo' is hardly the only botch on Jakko's remix. The mix for KE's Hammond solo in 3rd Impression is also a complete cock-up. And then there's these issues: the bass levels varying wildly over the course of the album; the application of reverb being OTT; the weirdly missing parts (electric bass part under 'and did the countenance divine'.... doubled piano/bass in parts of KE 2nd Impression).
It's a shame because *some* parts of it sound very good/better than the first 5.1 mix.
I seriously think this somehow failed quality control , and we got a 'scratch' or 'working' version instead of the final mix. It's that inconsistent.
It's a shame because *some* parts of it sound very good/better than the first 5.1 mix.
I seriously think this somehow failed quality control , and we got a 'scratch' or 'working' version instead of the final mix. It's that inconsistent.
RuudMans
Well-known Member
Have to agree with the inconsistent bass levels and ESPECIALLY the screwed up Hammond solo mix on KE9 3. That solo now sounds like 2 different takes of the solo played back at the same time, creating a messy and hard to follow cacaphonious 'duet'. Shame, because the original solo was one of the best organ solos I've heard on any of the ELP albums.
That's what I felt the first time I heard that solo on the remixed versions as well.
Two solo takes playing on top of each other rather than one solo like it used to be.
But that doesn't bother me NEARLY as much as the over-blown bass on that surround mix...
Two solo takes playing on top of each other rather than one solo like it used to be.
But that doesn't bother me NEARLY as much as the over-blown bass on that surround mix...
I think I like the 5.1 2000 version better. The 3rd Impression on the 2014 mix is as others are saying, mixed up. I have no trouble playing it at the same level as the rest of the disc as my center speaker is pretty much full range. The only track that I think beats the 2000 version is Still you Turn Me On.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Having trouble trying to come up with justification for spending $100 for this 5.1 remix...
Reviews like this sure don't help either!
I do have the 2000 remix. It's a bit squished and misses some things from the stereo original (which was NOT included on that release!) but is actually stunningly better than many/most of the circa early 2000 5.1 remixes found on many DVDA discs (ie. the crude stereo mix in front with awkward reverb in the back remix knocked out by some intern that never heard of the album before).
So they're being greedy with this 5.1 release (they authored a 2nd DVDA for the non-box release with the 5.1 mix removed) and it's not even getting good comments?!
Brilliant!
Reviews like this sure don't help either!
I do have the 2000 remix. It's a bit squished and misses some things from the stereo original (which was NOT included on that release!) but is actually stunningly better than many/most of the circa early 2000 5.1 remixes found on many DVDA discs (ie. the crude stereo mix in front with awkward reverb in the back remix knocked out by some intern that never heard of the album before).
So they're being greedy with this 5.1 release (they authored a 2nd DVDA for the non-box release with the 5.1 mix removed) and it's not even getting good comments?!
Brilliant!
Agreed.
Oh, and my vote was a 6.
I know I'm in the minority here, but with the exception of "Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression" (with the distorted bass cranked up to 11) I definitely prefer the 2014 surround mix to the 2000 mix.
To me it's warmer in tone, less compressed/limited, and more discrete without relying too much on surround gimmicks, something that the old mix had more of.
Plus, if you don't want the entire 5-disc box set (plus vinyl) there's a Japanese 3-disc version in which the DVD-A is the same 5.1 DVD-A in the box as opposed to the stereo-only DVD-A that came in the domestic 3-disc editions here in the US and Europe.
Not to mention you could pay a heck of a lot of money for the old DVD-A or 3-disc SACD version from 2008 in order to acquire the original surround mix, and at some of those prices, I think you would be better off just buying the box set and all that it offers!
To me it's warmer in tone, less compressed/limited, and more discrete without relying too much on surround gimmicks, something that the old mix had more of.
Plus, if you don't want the entire 5-disc box set (plus vinyl) there's a Japanese 3-disc version in which the DVD-A is the same 5.1 DVD-A in the box as opposed to the stereo-only DVD-A that came in the domestic 3-disc editions here in the US and Europe.
Not to mention you could pay a heck of a lot of money for the old DVD-A or 3-disc SACD version from 2008 in order to acquire the original surround mix, and at some of those prices, I think you would be better off just buying the box set and all that it offers!
IIRC (from having viewed the multitrack files as waveforms), the 2000 surround mix is not compressed/limited to any great degree, though I could recheck.
And to me, if any recording called for surround gimmickry, it's this one.
I don't know what Jakko was aiming for in his mix, but things seems to have gone badly awry. It's puzzling.
Totally agree. I know it's not perfect, but I've loved the 2000 dvd-a since I got it and don't understand how much negativity it gets. I love the Fragile dvd-a as well, but it has far more problems than BSS imo.
Plus, if you don't want the entire 5-disc box set (plus vinyl) there's a Japanese 3-disc version in which the DVD-A is the same 5.1 DVD-A in the box as opposed to the stereo-only DVD-A that came in the domestic 3-disc editions here in the US and Europe.
Is the Japanese 3-disc set with the dvda 5.1 still available I cant seem to find it anywhere. Thanks for any help
Is the Japanese 3-disc set with the dvda 5.1 still available I cant seem to find it anywhere. Thanks for any help
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Yes, I know that the bass is WAYYYY over the top on KE9 pt.3 and it's a bit of a disaster.
I had the chance to chat with Jakko regarding this "snafu" and he basically avoided the subject and was still polite about it.
Here are the facts:
Jakko has ALWAYS done some really good MCH mixes, so , if you have at least half a brain, you'll come to the conclusion that he is a great mixer and would NEVER EVER have done this "over the top" bass part on this mix on purpose, ESPECIALLY on such a seminal album!!!!
I've heard though the grapevine that there were three "aches" you didn't want to have in a studio:
-headache
-earache
-Greg Lake (with all due respect now that he is no longer with us)
Now , MY take is that Mr. Lake futzed with the mix after Jakko had finished it, be it for any reason whatsoever- especially taking into account that even SW bowed out of working with him and that is why Jakko wind up doing the mixing (granted, I have never met neither of them personally, but, Mr. Lake had done quite a few things that pissed me off big time and he thought he was "above the rest"; maybe not at the end of his life but for a loooong time- and I'd consider SW to be a very level headed professional- and trust me, the last thing you want in a recording/mixing session are bad vibes)
So, there it is...why was it that way?, Cause Greg Lake f*cked up the mix on purpose...why? I don't know and it doesn't make sense professionally, but maybe he was already sick and didn't give a flying f*** about it cause he knew he was gonna leave the building sooner or later (yes, I know this is not a very nice thing to say, but , remember, he was a Scorpio, and scorpions will be willing to go down themselves as long as their adversary goes down, and also are willing to sting themselves to death... and to quote the great Cervantes: "vale" )
I had the chance to chat with Jakko regarding this "snafu" and he basically avoided the subject and was still polite about it.
Here are the facts:
Jakko has ALWAYS done some really good MCH mixes, so , if you have at least half a brain, you'll come to the conclusion that he is a great mixer and would NEVER EVER have done this "over the top" bass part on this mix on purpose, ESPECIALLY on such a seminal album!!!!
I've heard though the grapevine that there were three "aches" you didn't want to have in a studio:
-headache
-earache
-Greg Lake (with all due respect now that he is no longer with us)
Now , MY take is that Mr. Lake futzed with the mix after Jakko had finished it, be it for any reason whatsoever- especially taking into account that even SW bowed out of working with him and that is why Jakko wind up doing the mixing (granted, I have never met neither of them personally, but, Mr. Lake had done quite a few things that pissed me off big time and he thought he was "above the rest"; maybe not at the end of his life but for a loooong time- and I'd consider SW to be a very level headed professional- and trust me, the last thing you want in a recording/mixing session are bad vibes)
So, there it is...why was it that way?, Cause Greg Lake f*cked up the mix on purpose...why? I don't know and it doesn't make sense professionally, but maybe he was already sick and didn't give a flying f*** about it cause he knew he was gonna leave the building sooner or later (yes, I know this is not a very nice thing to say, but , remember, he was a Scorpio, and scorpions will be willing to go down themselves as long as their adversary goes down, and also are willing to sting themselves to death... and to quote the great Cervantes: "vale" )
With all due respect, this thread is for reviews, not speculation…
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I apologize for the derail, but , since I had an actual conversation with the mixing engineer I thought it'd contribute to the thread and make it a bit clearer as to why it wound up like that (even if it is "speculation", according to you , but it's logical that someone like JJ would NOT have done that on purpose).
As it , is, I already voted and mentioned that JJ's mix "recaptured" the "darkness" of the original mix, which was totally lost (and I'm not saying it's a bad thing!) in the Kellogg mix-and as I always say, it's always great to have yet another "take" on such a seminal album, especially since all the reviews just concentrate on the "bass solo" part and ignore the rest for the most part.
I voted 10 on this disc accidentally, I do not own it. Maybe a moderator can delete my vote?
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