HiRez Poll Fagen, Donald - THE NIGHTFLY [DVD-A/SACD-JAPAN]
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30+MrGAS
Member
BananaSlug
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Amazon lists that it's at least got DTS 5.1. I have the DualDisc of this one and am not a Fagen fan, so I won't be buying these. If they were DVD-As I actually would have bought though...
ok i'll go out and shoot myself,now....
It's not your fault that Rhino has abandoned the DVD-Audio format for the (soon to be short lived) MVI disc. They are the ones that should be shot. Well, not literally!
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
If I didn't already have the Fagen trilogy on DVD-A, I would sure buy this Fagen trilogy MVI. I think it is a dumb name and I don't know if it is correct to say it includes stereo DVD-A's and surround DVD-V's or what, but I consistently like the Warner releases of my favorite music whether DVD-A or DVD-V. I would have preferred they continued with DVD-A's, stereo and surround included, but I accept Warner makes business decisions based on market response. It should be clear to everybody that DVD-A didn't sell very well and blaming Warner for that doesn't make sense to me. We still have hope Warner will get behind whatever next generation format prevails and give music on high resolution another shot in a year or two.
The Fagen trilogy is among maybe 10 high resolution discs I own that I have played more than once in the last year. I have a collection of discs with each being played around once a year on average. "Nightfly" is still my favorite of the three but all are great.
Chris
The Fagen trilogy is among maybe 10 high resolution discs I own that I have played more than once in the last year. I have a collection of discs with each being played around once a year on average. "Nightfly" is still my favorite of the three but all are great.
Chris
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
They didn't bother to do too much marketing of the format either.
The electronics makers did more to push the format than any label did.
Chris,
You are tireless in your defense of Sony and WB's pocketbooks. You seem to forget that because of their past decisions, it was OUR pocketbooks that were affected. Theirs is of little importance to me.
PS - I don't really have a pocketbook. Really, I don't!
@:Kazaam
701 Club - QQ All-Star
Here's a link to a Sound & Vision 'bitstream' Blog where Ken Richardson briefly discusses the Nightfly Trilogy MVI that is coming out this month.
Please allow me to ask for forgiveness in advance for further propagating MVI talk on this DVD-Audio review thread, but... I'm torn when it comes to buying this MVI release. I find absolutely no value in the MVI other than the DTS 5.1 tracks. I'm not a huge Donald Fagen fan; thus, I never bought "The Nightly" or "Kamakiriad" DVD-Audios back when they were readily available for reasonable prices. I can probably still find "Morph" on true DVD-A for $20.00, which makes the prospect of spending $50-plus for a lesser-quality DTS mix a little bit harder to swallow seeing as I have no use for built-in MP3s when a regular CD is included and also since I have no use for a ringtone generator. That said, I've been enjoying some of the old-school DTS 5.1 Music Discs lately, and they are indeed enjoyable. I might have to bite the bullet despite my belief that Rhino is doing this release wrong.
Please allow me to ask for forgiveness in advance for further propagating MVI talk on this DVD-Audio review thread, but... I'm torn when it comes to buying this MVI release. I find absolutely no value in the MVI other than the DTS 5.1 tracks. I'm not a huge Donald Fagen fan; thus, I never bought "The Nightly" or "Kamakiriad" DVD-Audios back when they were readily available for reasonable prices. I can probably still find "Morph" on true DVD-A for $20.00, which makes the prospect of spending $50-plus for a lesser-quality DTS mix a little bit harder to swallow seeing as I have no use for built-in MP3s when a regular CD is included and also since I have no use for a ringtone generator. That said, I've been enjoying some of the old-school DTS 5.1 Music Discs lately, and they are indeed enjoyable. I might have to bite the bullet despite my belief that Rhino is doing this release wrong.
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
That is basically the position I see repeated here, Warner, Sony and the rest of the companies did a poor job marketing the formats and a poor job marketing the individual releases. Now they should continue to release many titles, it is either owed to us or the formats will eventually catch on, I guess is the belief. I accept, no profits had to eventually result in few or no releases, it is just a business decision so I remain unconvinced of the common position expressed here, and believe more money spent marketing SACD and DVD-A would have meant nothing but greater losses. I think the quality from Warner and Sony was outstanding, the market chose not to buy the product. Lots of good products never find a market and it is rarely because of a poor marketing plan. Did the same companies have a poor marketing plan for CD or DVD or the PS2? Those products were great successes but I recall nothing special about the marketing, I recall people discussing the products because they filled a need and were improvements over what preceeded them and it was clear and easy to see.
Mainstream consumer audio/video formats evolving into something better that takes over the market is really rare, I can't think of a single example where the improvement evolved into anything other than a niche market. JVC tried to evolve VHS into SVHS then D-VHS, both were never more than niche products. CD evolving into SACD or DVD-A resulted in two niche products. Now we are seeing DVD evolving into Blu-ray and HD DVD. The lines are sort of blurred with CD and DVD since SACD and DVD-A are based on DVD media because of its greater capacity, but clearly from a market development plan, both were mostly seen to be a potential replacement to CD more than DVD.
One thing I don't understand is why some products can work as small niche markets and others can't. For some reason LP buyers will pay high prices to keep that niche market going. High prices for SACD and DVD-A because the market is so small apparently means basically no sales. With SACD and DVD-A, the format war may have stalled the ability for either to succeed as a small niche product.
Chris
Kazaam
701 Club - QQ All-Star
I have often said that I'd be willing to pay a slight premium to keep high-quality 5.1 releases coming. I would gladly fork over $35.00 if BSM would decide to release some new hi-rez DVD-Audio material. I'd expect the quality to be superb, though. Let's start with some of those finished mixes of Fleetwood Mac's S/T and "Tusk" albums! :banana:
That said, I feel quite good about my efforts in trying to help high-rez, multi-channnel DVD-Audio/SACD succeed. I probably bought most everything out there and I always tried to get more folks interested in it by posting threads on new equipment and new albums. (Heck, I'll probably buy the Nightfly trilogy even though it hurts me in that it lacks hi-rez.) I don't think the entire marketing process was perfect, but there were indeed some decent efforts. And, yes, the average consumer is more interested in MP3 than 5.1 surround sound. However, I believe 5.1 surround sound albums is very capable of being a viable niche market if done properly.
Give us DVD-Audio. It has robust copy protection that should protect intellectual property from illegal copying. Do quality mixes from quality artists and charge a price that will make a small enough profit. Sell these items primarily via audiophile on-line retailers (acousticsounds) or direct-to-consumer (as in Becausesoundmatters or Hip-O Select.) Be sure to advertise the new releases by sending out promo copies to the media at magazines such as Sound & Vision. As for the product itself? Don't bother to include a hi-rez stereo version if the companies are concerned about these DVD-Audios cannibalizing regular stereo CD sales. I don't even need to have MP3's included, as in MVI. Sure, some kind of CD compatibility would be nice in order to transfer music to the ol' iPod; but I'm willing to double-dip and buy a separate CD if it meant we could have a sustainable market for multichannel music.
At least those are my thoughts as of right now. I'm not saying it's perfect, but just some random thoughts about how things might could work.
P.S. - And, of course, I'll certainly let the Steve Wilsons and others with the contractual ability and the desire to continue releasing 5.1 music directly via their band's websites.
That said, I feel quite good about my efforts in trying to help high-rez, multi-channnel DVD-Audio/SACD succeed. I probably bought most everything out there and I always tried to get more folks interested in it by posting threads on new equipment and new albums. (Heck, I'll probably buy the Nightfly trilogy even though it hurts me in that it lacks hi-rez.) I don't think the entire marketing process was perfect, but there were indeed some decent efforts. And, yes, the average consumer is more interested in MP3 than 5.1 surround sound. However, I believe 5.1 surround sound albums is very capable of being a viable niche market if done properly.
Give us DVD-Audio. It has robust copy protection that should protect intellectual property from illegal copying. Do quality mixes from quality artists and charge a price that will make a small enough profit. Sell these items primarily via audiophile on-line retailers (acousticsounds) or direct-to-consumer (as in Becausesoundmatters or Hip-O Select.) Be sure to advertise the new releases by sending out promo copies to the media at magazines such as Sound & Vision. As for the product itself? Don't bother to include a hi-rez stereo version if the companies are concerned about these DVD-Audios cannibalizing regular stereo CD sales. I don't even need to have MP3's included, as in MVI. Sure, some kind of CD compatibility would be nice in order to transfer music to the ol' iPod; but I'm willing to double-dip and buy a separate CD if it meant we could have a sustainable market for multichannel music.
At least those are my thoughts as of right now. I'm not saying it's perfect, but just some random thoughts about how things might could work.
P.S. - And, of course, I'll certainly let the Steve Wilsons and others with the contractual ability and the desire to continue releasing 5.1 music directly via their band's websites.
How much did Sony waste on UMD movies for the PSP?
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I don't know and I have never seen an estimate of the number but I believe it was a tiny fraction of the amount spent on SACD and now Blu-ray, athough Blu-ray is still in the game and Sony might be able to turn it around. Up to this point, I am sure the Blu-ray losses dwarf the SACD losses. If the UMD losses were as great as 5% of the SACD losses, I would be surprised. I certainly agree that Sony makes some good business decisions and some bad business decisions, some good products and some bad products. From the standpoint of a product I wanted that fits my needs, SACD was a home run. Not a single person in real life I know agrees with me and nobody I know owns Blu-ray either and I discuss it often with friends and family.
Back to MVI. I hope it succeeds and a market evolves that enjoys surround sound. In my opinion, surround DVD-V with a lossy codec can be excellent and good enough for me that I buy them. I do personally think the MVI name is dumb and the plan dumb, but if the product fills a consumer need, it can succeed despite no great marketing plan.
Donald Fagen's music is great and I own at least one version of almost everything he has done individually and as Steely Dan. For some reason, I think he should just retire for good at this point, I have no interest in anything further by him. I don't think I could be convinced to buy another of any of the great Steely Dan albums, even redone in surround.
Chris
bugdaddy
400 Club - QQ All-Star
huh? you think his music his great but for some unstated reason you think he should just retire? and if any of the early SD albums are finally released in surround you won't buy them?
huh? you think his music his great but for some unstated reason you think he should just retire? and if any of the early SD albums are finally released in surround you won't buy them?
I'll take his copy of Pretzel Logic
That's if he's not going to buy it of course. Please let the early Dan albums see the light of day in surround!
30+MrGAS
Member
listened to my NightFly this morning ....GREAT !!!:banana:
says on the disc compact Disc digital Audio,but it sure did have great separation.
thanks for everything you guys do to keeps these sounds alive!
I have never heard such great sounds until now,thanks to DVD A and great stuff like this and "The McCartney Years"...Wow 10+ on it watched and listened to the whole three disc set!!
thank you ONKYO for the 905 AVR,it plays everything(modes)and Toshiba XA2 and PS3.
I'm no audiophile but man this stuff sounds great!
just a 63 yr old Noob.
says on the disc compact Disc digital Audio,but it sure did have great separation.
thanks for everything you guys do to keeps these sounds alive!
I have never heard such great sounds until now,thanks to DVD A and great stuff like this and "The McCartney Years"...Wow 10+ on it watched and listened to the whole three disc set!!
thank you ONKYO for the 905 AVR,it plays everything(modes)and Toshiba XA2 and PS3.
I'm no audiophile but man this stuff sounds great!
just a 63 yr old Noob.
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
huh? you think his music his great but for some unstated reason you think he should just retire? and if any of the early SD albums are finally released in surround you won't buy them?
No, the albums are not diverse enough for me to want to purchase more. I have all of them in one form or another, including several high resolution surround releases, and no interest in anything further. He isn't the only artist I have listened to so much that I don't need anything else. The sound is unmistakable and ultimately very similar from the first Steely Dan album to the last Donald Fagen album. I like it all, think he is brilliant, but like many artists at some point he can't continue to be interesting. I am sure others will want remasters, or reissues in surround, although I don't think anything he releases going forward will sell much. The Gaucho DVD-A was a revelation, the music was so familiar but it was a huge improvement and that really got me interested in listening again and I picked up the Fagen solo DVD-A's and with over a thousand 5" shiny discs to play, I chose those often the last couple of years. Now I have moved on and the others will be played more often.
Chris
bugdaddy
400 Club - QQ All-Star
well, i guess that's where we differ. to me, "can't buy a thrill" sounds quite different than any of those SD/Fagen dvd-a's released so far. i consider the first five SD albums (CBAT thru "the royal scam") as the true jewels of the SD/fagen catalogue, with lack of diversity ony beginning with "aja" and beyond. should any of the first five ever be released, i'll miss reading your posts about them, but to each his own.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Donald-Fagen-...ryZ46353QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
one for the shocker log $99 starting price plus $30 postage!!
one for the shocker log $99 starting price plus $30 postage!!
Just managed to get a copy of this without getting scalped too bad
Found a seller in Germany advertising a used copy on amazon.uk.
With exchange rate, about $50 total. Better than being raped by 5.1 Marketing & others trying to get $100-200.
Anyway, love the sound even if only 48Khz. Phenomenal in surround and clear as a bell. I've had the CD for many yrs and this DVD-A is substantially improved over the CD in every way. I give this a solid 9.
9 Music
9 Surround
I have Nightfly, Gaucho, 2 Against Nature, Everything Must Go and Morph.
Gaucho is my favorite.
Will we ever see Aja & Pretzel Logic released in 5.1 surround? Aja would be spectacular!!!
Found a seller in Germany advertising a used copy on amazon.uk.
With exchange rate, about $50 total. Better than being raped by 5.1 Marketing & others trying to get $100-200.
Anyway, love the sound even if only 48Khz. Phenomenal in surround and clear as a bell. I've had the CD for many yrs and this DVD-A is substantially improved over the CD in every way. I give this a solid 9.
9 Music
9 Surround
I have Nightfly, Gaucho, 2 Against Nature, Everything Must Go and Morph.
Gaucho is my favorite.
Will we ever see Aja & Pretzel Logic released in 5.1 surround? Aja would be spectacular!!!
