For those who endorse high priced tweaks

[JohnN]

https://www.psaudio.com/article/the-sound-of-speaker-cables-an-analysis/

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

Something ain't right in that article. I'm no engineer, but it appears as though he's basing most of his assertions on the application of transmission line theory to audio signals, which has been pretty well debunked. Here's one not-too-technical explanation:

Why characteristic impedance is not considered in analog audio transmission cables

 

[Soundfield]

... it appears as though he's basing most of his assertions on the application of transmission line theory to audio signals

A useful engineering rule of thumb will tell you all need to know here-

"Transmission-line effects only become significant when the length of the line is comparable to or greater than the wavelength of the signal. A general guideline is the one-fourth wavelength rule:
If the interconnect length is less than one-fourth of the signal wavelength, transmission-line analysis is not necessary. The interconnect itself does not significantly affect the electrical behavior of the circuit."

If you take a notional audio frequency of say, 20kHz, λ = 15Km. So you really only need to start worrying about transmission line effects if your speaker cables are more than 3.75Km long!!!

Another wholly inappropriate read across from the RF domain you often see mentioned by cable and connector manufacturers is Skin Effect. All very amusing.

 

[Doug G.]

Well, they have to have SOMETHING to demonstrate they are smarter than everybody else.



Doug

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

Wow. I Had a skim of that article last night, read through the whole thing today. That is actually some of the most insidiously well-crafted misinformation I've seen in quite a while - and that's saying something these days.

At first it looks reasonably sober, except that characteristic-impedance thing kinda jumps out - oops! But then I noticed important details convieniently omitted, say like x/y graph settings!! Sheesh.

The bottom line is that all of those horrifying graphs are illustrating stuff that's happening in either the high-MHz or high-microvolt range (induced into speaker-level voltages) - neither of which is having any audible effect.

What utter poppycock.

(EDIT: No offense to JohnN I hope!)

 

[JohnN]

Wow. I Had a skim of that article last night, read through the whole thing today. That is actually some of the most insidiously well-crafted misinformation I've seen in quite a while - and that's saying something these days.

At first it looks reasonably sober, except that characteristic-impedance thing kinda jumps out - oops! But then I noticed important details convieniently omitted, say like x/y graph settings!! Sheesh.

The bottom line is that all of those horrifying graphs are illustrating stuff that's happening in either the high-MHz or high-microvolt range, neither of which is having any audible effect.

What utter poppycock.

(EDIT: No offense to JohnN I hope!)

No way, you're good. I was posting for laughs. what the hell is this?

 

[DuncanS]

A useful engineering rule of thumb will tell you all need to know here-

"Transmission-line effects only become significant when the length of the line is comparable to or greater than the wavelength of the signal. A general guideline is the one-fourth wavelength rule:
If the interconnect length is less than one-fourth of the signal wavelength, transmission-line analysis is not necessary. The interconnect itself does not significantly affect the electrical behavior of the circuit."

If you take a notional audio frequency of say, 20kHz, λ = 15Km. So you really only need to start worrying about transmission line effects if your speaker cables are more than 3.75Km long!!!

Another wholly inappropriate read across from the RF domain you often see mentioned by cable and connector manufacturers is Skin Effect. All very amusing.

Wow. I Had a skim of that article last night, read through the whole thing today. That is actually some of the most insidiously well-crafted misinformation I've seen in quite a while - and that's saying something these days.

At first it looks reasonably sober, except that characteristic-impedance thing kinda jumps out - oops! But then I noticed important details convieniently omitted, say like x/y graph settings!! Sheesh.

The bottom line is that all of those horrifying graphs are illustrating stuff that's happening in either the high-MHz or high-microvolt range, neither of which is having any audible effect.

What utter poppycock.

(EDIT: No offense to JohnN I hope!)

It is very nicely presented drivel, never mind the quality feel the width. The cables look well made though, but I can't see the magical audio fairy dust! To quote Steve Earle off Copperhead Road "I heard a sound like that once but it was chemically in...du..uced!"

 

[4-earredwonder]

After reading all this vitriolic nonsense, all I can say is almost EVERY SYSTEM in a residence could benefit from some type of SOUND REINFORCEMENTS and/or 'assistance' to their incoming power supply especially in parts of the world where a steady flow of electricity is not reaching your various components.

Unless your dwelling has been 'engineered' from the ground up as a dedicated listening space [VERY unlikely], I have found acoustic panels placed throughout the room can work MIRACLES....through, of course, through trial and error placement!

And while denizens of QQ spend literally thousands a year on music and pricey box sets, if at least some of that $$$$ was invested in your actual SYSTEM, I think a lot of you would be happier with the results.

It ain't ALL placebo effects as I have 'victoriously' discovered over the years and any tweaks which DID NOT SATISFY ME were packed up and returned ASAP. I AIN'T THAT GULLIBLE .... AND MY EARS DON'T LIE!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So there has been a few articles at Audiophile Style regarding power supply conditioning. Both AC and DC.

Here is a link to the AC article

I have problems with a lot of the information here, but what bugs me the most is the assertion that installing 30amp house circuits (as opposed to 20 amp circuits) somehow allows for current to be delivered faster to the audio devices, resulting in all of the earthshaking audio improvement the reviewer describes.

 

[Sal1950]

I have problems with a lot of the information here, but what bugs me the most is the assertion that installing 30amp house circuits (as opposed to 20 amp circuits) somehow allows for current to be delivered faster to the audio devices, resulting in all of the earthshaking audio improvement the reviewer describes.

The imagination can be a powerful thing, specially when you went through all the work and expense to install these upgrades and can't switch back and forth to compare them.
One thing to be aware of for those of us having high powered multich rigs is that they can consume a lot of power during high volume demands. What can and will happen is voltage drop under heavy demand and having your entire system powered by one 15 amp line is not a good idea. With 5 Adcom power amps for the base and overhead speakers and two subwoofers with plate amps, plus the computer, avr, and maybe a 75" Sony TV running, having enough power can make a difference.. I have 2 20amp lines to see that line voltage remains relatively steady no matter the demand. I don't have any fancy outlets, power cords, or any other of those useless tweaks.

 

[Marcsten]

So there has been a few articles at Audiophile Style regarding power supply conditioning. Both AC and DC.

Here is a link to the AC article

I have problems with a lot of the information here, but what bugs me the most is the assertion that installing 30amp house circuits (as opposed to 20 amp circuits) somehow allows for current to be delivered faster to the audio devices, resulting in all of the earthshaking audio improvement the reviewer describes.

The 20 vs 30 amp cutouts seems like nonsense to me from a logic standpoint, without doing any tests myself. Electricity tends to be on or off, although I suppose its conceivable that there is a point where the breaker is on the verge of cutting out and limiting flow somewhat on the edge, offering resistance. Seems dubious.
Myself I have an AC power supply conditioning device which honestly I never noticed any real difference after I got it. The main reason I got it was it has a ton of outlets on the back so I can consolidate them all own one place and a circuit breaker in the event the home supply is either too high or too low. There's an LED meter on the front to monitor and my home current certainly does ebb and flow, and is not consistent, although, again, I don't know how much that matters. Mostly its convenience and I got it second hand from a studio that was upgrading to new models so the price was right! The thing weighs a ton and is built like a tank.

 

[Marcsten]

The 20 vs 30 amp cutouts seems like nonsense to me from a logic standpoint, without doing any tests myself. Electricity tends to be on or off, although I suppose its conceivable that there is a point where the breaker is on the verge of cutting out and limiting flow somewhat on the edge, offering resistance. Seems dubious.
Myself I have an AC power supply conditioning device which honestly I never noticed any real difference after I got it. The main reason I got it was it has a ton of outlets on the back so I can consolidate them all own one place and a circuit breaker in the event the home supply is either too high or too low. There's an LED meter on the front to monitor and my home current certainly does ebb and flow, and is not consistent, although, again, I don't know how much that matters. Mostly its convenience and I got it second hand from a studio that was upgrading to new models so the price was right! The thing weighs a ton and is built like a tank.

One other comment I forgot. I live in a hundred year old house that still has the knob and tube wiring. I know shielding is an issue and so there are areas of the house that introduce hum into the system and some that do not. Having observed this myself, it stands to reason that better shielding of all wires may improve performance, including the patch chords in your system, which again introduce noise unless things are moved around from one installation to another. So it is plausible that a beefier power cord could make a difference as the author asserts, but he also says he upgraded all the house wiring at the outset so this shouldn't be an issue for him. But I am talking about noise and hum, not 'opening up the field of sound'. I have never noticed any of that.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The idea of using a 30 amp circuit to provide "faster" current is nonsense. It would simply provide more current if needed. The author openly states that his power draw is nowhere near the 30 amp maximum, but yet claims audible benefits due to the additional headroom. The difference between running 10 amps through a 12 gauge wire (rated for 20 amps) and the same 10 amps running through a 10 gauge wire (rated for 30 amps) is that the 12 gauge wire may show a slightly higher temperature due to its higher resistivity, and you would be hard pressed to measure that at 50% of the current carrying capacity across a length of 15 feet (the distance from his panel to his wall socket). Of course, none of the rest of the power grid even matters for the purpose of his discussion. It's that last 15 feet that was upgraded that makes all the difference.

 

[Doug G.]

You mean the current frequency through the cable doesn't go up from 60Hz from a 20 amp circuit to a 30 amp circuit? Dang!

Doug

 

[jimfisheye]

If 30 amp service is providing "additional headroom" to the system, the "headroom" in this context would refer to the power needs of the amplifiers. If your amplifiers can use 30 amps in operation, the result of lower input power wouldn't be lower peak output. It would be blowing the circuit breaker when the amp tried to draw more power.

I'm not saying someone didn't hear something. I'm just saying it wasn't that!

 

[jimfisheye]

You mean the current frequency through the cable doesn't go up from 60Hz from a 20 amp circuit to a 30 amp circuit? Dang!

Doug

That's why they have to use different cables in the UK. (50Hz power)
Otherwise the resonance doesn't align with the Nyquist circumference.

 

[DuncanS]

In the UK we make our mains cables out of unicorns, adds that magical mystery t'our sound

 

[bluelightning]

So there has been a few articles at Audiophile Style regarding power supply conditioning. Both AC and DC.

Here is a link to the AC article

I have problems with a lot of the information here, but what bugs me the most is the assertion that installing 30amp house circuits (as opposed to 20 amp circuits) somehow allows for current to be delivered faster to the audio devices, resulting in all of the earthshaking audio improvement the reviewer describes.

Never underestimate the stupidity of these audiophiles!

 

[HomerJAU]

One advantage living in a country with a 230V power system is double the (115V) voltage means we only need half the amps to deliver same power. Less current means smaller cables/volt drop for large loads.

 

[JohnN]

Update
Worked:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817
https://fospower.com/home-a-v/close...-wire-gold-plated-connectors-with-dual-screws

Home theatre: Yamaha / new Infinity Reference & Primus 360