For those who endorse high priced tweaks

[LuvMyQuad]

The number of fools (hopefully none on this group) that fall for this trap is even more mind boggling!

Oh I'm sure there are a fair number here.

 

[Soundfield]

The idea that a 6'ft power cable is going to magically improve the sound after the energy has through miles and miles of normal copper is still one of those mysteries.

In fact its probably gone through miles and miles of Aluminium (shock , horror)! Aluminium has long been used for long distance power HV lines as it is so much lighter (and cheaper) than copper even given the slightly larger cable diameter required to compensate for its marginally lower conductivity.

 

[jimfisheye]

This reminds me of a salesman at a high end audio store in Redondo Beach area who offered to lend me a $3k power cable for connecting to a Sony PS2? and claimed that it dramatically improve the sound. I told that him that it was digital and would make no difference. He went on to say that it made the 1's and 0's sharper and cleaner. At the which point I realized, it was a fool's errand and quickly got the hell out of there. The idea that a 6'ft power cable is going to magically improve the sound after the energy has through miles and miles of normal copper is still one of those mysteries. The number of fools (hopefully none on this group) that fall for this trap is even more mind boggling!

Should have explained to him that as long as the 0's come back less than 0.5 and the ones come back at higher than 0.5, the system is working and the audio data is literally 100% perfect.

I mean... if you wanted to see his 12 volt stare and hear his next made up spiel I suppose.

Power cords?!
Right. Because the power needs of my device are literally 120V AC and the device needs a tight regulated supply of that? No... that still wouldn't follow. (Trying to make up something where trying to improve the quality of a pair of unshielded 16awg wire used to deliver 120V AC could have any measurable effect whatsoever.) I got nothing.

 

[MidiMagic]

If the cheap patchcords hummed, they might have been speaker cables, not line level audio cables.

 

[par4ken]

If I had an unlimited amount of money to spend I might buy some high end interconnects. I love the quality of construction of most high end products. Would it improve the sound over good quality standard cables, likely not. I don't think I could ever bring myself to lay out hundreds of dollars on a power cable though, that is an absurd idea that it could possibly improve the sound in any way! A more standard cable made of a larger gauge wire might be a good idea though.
A lot of the high end tweaks you could do for yourself for very little money, then if they don't work your not out of pocket by very much. Usually high end products are based on some kind of science (or pseudo science), it's always interesting to hear the justification for their product designs!

 

[par4ken]

If the cheap patchcords hummed, they might have been speaker cables, not line level audio cables.

No it was the cables, they had very few strands of wire in them and very poor shielding, ultra cheap molded plugs. The amp was a tube one with high input impedance which made things even worse!

 

[bluelightning]

Should have explained to him that as long as the 0's come back less than 0.5 and the ones come back at higher than 0.5, the system is working and the audio data is literally 100% perfect.

I mean... if you wanted to see his 12 volt stare and hear his next made up spiel I suppose.

Power cords?!
Right. Because the power needs of my device are literally 120V AC and the device needs a tight regulated supply of that? No... that still wouldn't follow. (Trying to make up something where trying to improve the quality of a pair of unshielded 16awg wire used to deliver 120V AC could have any measurable effect whatsoever.) I got nothing.

I was furious enough at the ********* he was giving and decided it was better to get the f**k out. At that point, I was already underwhelmed by some of the speakers I heard there and was ready to leave anyway.

 

[atrocity]

I used to live in a mobile home and I had a front-loading washing machine. It would rotate clockwise, pause, then rotate counterclockwise, pause, etc.

I quickly learned that I couldn't do any recording to tape or MD or whatever while doing laundry because every time the motor ran in either direction on the washing machine, I'd get an audible whine that I assume was coming in over the power lines. Never did fix it, wound up buying a house instead.

I kinda half-remember seeing hardware that would allegedly filter electrical line noise, but it was always out of my price range and I never tried any of it.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Back in the day I accompanied a friend to an audio store where a salesman tried to explain Dolby noise reduction for FM as a system that prevented interference from low flying airplanes. No joke !

 

[par4ken]

Back in the day I accompanied a friend to an audio store where a salesman tried to explain Dolby noise reduction for FM as a system that prevented interference from low flying airplanes. No joke !

Many salesmen didn't have a clue what they were talking about!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I used to live in a mobile home and I had a front-loading washing machine. It would rotate clockwise, pause, then rotate counterclockwise, pause, etc.

I quickly learned that I couldn't do any recording to tape or MD or whatever while doing laundry because every time the motor ran in either direction on the washing machine, I'd get an audible whine that I assume was coming in over the power lines. Never did fix it, wound up buying a house instead.

I kinda half-remember seeing hardware that would allegedly filter electrical line noise, but it was always out of my price range and I never tried any of it.

In some cases where a home's wiring is old and poor you can get electrical spikes in sound equipment. A power line regulator may help that out, or not. Often just running a dedicated line for the offending appliance or for the stereo rig does just as well.

 

[atrocity]

In some cases where a home's wiring is old and poor you can get electrical spikes in sound equipment. A power line regulator may help that out, or not. Often just running a dedicated line for the offending appliance or for the stereo rig does just as well.

"Dedicated line" reminds me of something I did a couple years ago that others might find helpful: After an obnoxious and embarrassing situation of my own making where I wasted a talented electrician's time, I made a spreadsheet that matches every single electrical outlet, light fixture, etc. to its corresponding breaker.

I learned a lot about how the place is wired and which circuits are truly dedicated to a single purpose. Biggest surprise to me was learning that the 120v outlet in the laundry room is the only thing on its 20 amp circuit. I expected that for the 240v hookup for the dryer, but not the one for the washer!

 

[par4ken]

"Dedicated line" reminds me of something I did a couple years ago that others might find helpful: After an obnoxious and embarrassing situation of my own making where I wasted a talented electrician's time, I made a spreadsheet that matches every single electrical outlet, light fixture, etc. to its corresponding breaker.

I learned a lot about how the place is wired and which circuits are truly dedicated to a single purpose. Biggest surprise to me was learning that the 120v outlet in the laundry room is the only thing on its 20 amp circuit. I expected that for the 240v hookup for the dryer, but not the one for the washer!

A dryer should be a dual 30 Amp breaker.

 

[jimfisheye]

Noisy mains power is a thing alright. FYI, a "better" (concept incorrect) power cable would deliver that noise more precisely. You need transformer isolation to battle that stuff. The job of a power supply in any device is to filter and condition the power to the requirements of the device's circuits. If the noise is too much, the filtering can't handle it and stuff gets through.

 

[atrocity]

A dryer should be a dual 30 Amp breaker.

Made me look. Yep, that's what it is. Sits unused though, because I have a gas dryer.

 

[Quadmon]

I don't have $2000 but I do have two cents. I've always tried to get the best I could afford altho most of what I have is not high end. I have really only heard one high end system because when someone said they had one and I asked to hear it most would beg off. As in, " I'd like to but I don't have the $1200 cable that connects my $4000 turntable to my $8000 pure power amp". My whole system could be bought for less than $3000 but it always plays and no one has complained as to how it sounds.

 

[Marcsten]

It's completely dependent upon the "tweak". The-not likely enough-short version? Whatever truth there is to be discerned is about the same as what I said in another similar thread earlier: People's psychoacoustic sensitivities differ dramatically, people's environments differ dramatically, people's gear differs dramatically, the recording (i.e., the venues where they were made, including mics, desks, D/A-A/D's, etc) qualities differ dramatically and the qualities of the physical formats (if they're not downloads) differ dramatically. One good example? Giveaway cables can and do sound worse than anything that was designed with a stringent eye cast toward isolating the signal, rejecting EMI/RFI, and minimizing resistance-but that's only WITHIN REASON.

Why? The law of diminishing returns, like rust, never sleeps. The first jump (even if it's a 1974 "Yorx/Emerson" all in one piece of High-Fatality dreck) is the biggest. After that, the law of diminishing returns rules to one degree or another. Each time the outlay of wherewithal gets bigger, and more often than not, the return will (if in no other way, then merely perceptually) be somewhat diminished. It's not that nothing matters or that everything matters. It's that (somewhat paradoxically) they both do, and do so simultaneously. So it let's nearly everyone off where they get on. The answer? Joe Walsh or Bill Szymczyk might opine "Drink 'em if you Smoke 'em...". Or maybe, "Play 'em if you got 'em...". In the end, nobody gets out alive. Let the good times roll, if you can lay your hands on some.

This has been my observation in nearly all things. The increase in performance as it goes up (if it does) costs less at the lower end exponentially more at the higher end. In short, the cost increase to quality increase is not linear. It's steep. Wine, previously mentioned is a good example. Cars, same. Big difference between a VW Jetta and a Jaguar in refinement and quality of parts (if not always construction!) but the difference between that Jag and Bentley? Sure its there but at what cost?And how great? I find the same for hifi. Price out an all class A setup with five speakers, amps, pre-amps etc. While it may offer an improvement over more run of the mill equipment, is it worth the price difference? Depends on the person and how deep their pocket (or ego) is.

 

[Marcsten]

I understand what your saying and have traveled that road a bit myself in my 50+ years of being a audio enthusiast. For myself the final answer was to build the most accurate, cleanest system I could afford. Your path leads to a sonic dead end, once you've populated your system with turntables, tubes, high distortion solid state pieces and alike, there's no way out except to replace all that gear with cleaner stuff. If you build your kit around the best measuring, most accurate pieces you can, it is dead simple to add in FR variations, harmonic distortion devices, and all the rest to tune the rig to your taste. Some day you might be interested in hearing what the artist, engineer, producer, etc; wanted you to hear when he created his piece of art.


You haven't stated the actual distance to your speakers but still I would only comment that 16 gauge wire is on the thin side for what I would chose. It's possible to introduce your speakers impedance, amplifier output impedance and damping factor, and the LCR per foot of the cable of your choice and determine the minimal size needed so as not to introduce any audible changes to the signal.. But that's a big PITA and just using a good OFC twin lead of 12g for runs up to 25 ft and 10g for up to 50 ft will put you in a comfort zone where there's no worry of signal loss/change. Wire of this type can be purchased at a very low cost from suppliers like BlueJeanCable custom terminated, or Sky High Car Audio cable which is what I have in my rig now. Don't let the "Car Audio" branding scare you, it just has insulation designed to withstand temperature and humidity variations that aren't usually seen inside the home. Very nice flexible stuff in a large variety of gauges, colors, and lengths to suite your needs at a reasonable cost.
What do they sound like, the source, what else. LOL

My system is a bit unusual in that the stack of gear is not within the 'circle' of the surround sound setup. Because it is to the rear of the rears, the right rear speaker cable is only about 4 feet, while the left front has to go all the way around past the right rear, right front and then to the left front. And the left rear has to do the sam all the way around. SO the highest gauge wire I used is on the left front and left rear, not the pair of fronts. The distance to the right front is about 15 feet, another 8 feet on top of that to the left front, and then a whopping 15 feet on top of that to reach the left rear.

 

[JohnN]

Should have used Gorilla Cable.

 

[Marcsten]

Should have used Gorilla Cable.

Needed the right alarm....