Frank Zappa Waka/Wazoo Deluxe 4CD + Blu-Ray 5.1 and Atmos!!!!

[bookofsaturdays]

Yes, Smoke on the water lyrics are suposed to be based on real events:

"""""""
Frank Zappa and the Mothers
Were at the best place around
But some stupid with a flare gun
Burned the place to the ground
"""""""
... Smoke on the Water on the Lake Geneva Shoreline.

They composed the song about the events they were experiencing, without suspecting that it would be so successful. Because of the Guitar riff, not because of the horrible event, I Assume.

Frank and the Mothers were having a pretty terrible week actually. Dec. 4 ‘71 was the fire in Montreux which destroyed all their equipment and Dec. 10 was the night of the incident with the jealous fan who pushed Frank off the stage which would also end up being the final show with the Flo and Eddie lineup of the Mothers

 

[Nethersage]

This boxed set is on general release. You may have deduced the method of accessing the menus but I assert that it is not intuitive. Others are likely to hit the some stumbig block that I did. I have other Blu-rays which came with advice on how to navigate the disc without recourse to a screen display, it's not a major task for a disc producer to author a Blu-ray in such a was as to offer such a facility. The "PRODUCER'S NOTE" states "It is primarily an audio-only disc with basic navigation and song information dispayed on screen". Not until one has worked out how to get out of the home screen it isn't. I fully expect that there will be a number of returns due to the disc beig thought faulty (which, in terms of its navigation ease, it is). Letting buyers know how to access the navigation screens, via a note in the booklet or otherwise in the packaging,,would have overcome this weakness. Posting as I have, both here and elsewhere on the Internet, so that it might be seen by purchasers, could well help obviate a peceived need to return the set as faulty.

 

[GilWave]

Never. Order. A. Pre-Order. From. The. Zappa. Store.

Why not? Eight periods seems ominously serious - please, do tell.

 

[jaypfunk]

Why not? Eight periods seems serious, please - do tell.

Judging by past feedback you will never get it on release date. That’s lame.

 

[stoopid]

The flickering is supposed to mimic a faulty/dying fluorescent light or old movie film, to add some context to the image of the ****** room and old battlefield. I find the uniqueness in the Blurary authoring (menu/flickering) to be a perfect reflection of the FZ aesthetic and inventiveness. There would be complaints if it was ordinary too. Can't please everyone.

The volume differences between the albums on the disc, the menu layout, and the flickering menu are all being overblown. Truly first world surround release issues. The music is great, mixes are top notch, liner notes a well written and thorough, and there's bonus material to boot!

 

[Intruder461]

The music content contained in this box set is excellent and even the bonus content on the 4CD's is to die for they really are superb recordings. In many respects, I wished they would have given them the 5.1 treatment as well. The surround mixes are quite low and I find I have to pump up the volume to get the best out of them. I would have preferred 96/24 instead of 48/24 though I would still give them 10 out of 10.

Regarding the menu navigation on the blu ray, it's simple and dead easy to navigate I cannot see what all the fuss is about. The flicker is purposely put there for effect simply make your choice of what album to play by moving left or right and click on the appropriate album. The only niggly downside I find regarding the menu is that once you've made your selection the album plays automatically before you have made your preferred audio choice.

 

[Rhinojack]

Did you notice a flicker in the menus

The flicker in the menus are on purpose. An artistic effect. Notice that the picture of Frank in the middle does not flicker. If there was a problem, the whole screen would flicker.

 

[PissedOffPeoN]

His name is zappa and he has electric flickering in his menu.. makes sense to me .

 

[Quadkid]

The flicker in the menus are on purpose. An artistic effect. Notice that the picture of Frank in the middle does not flicker. If there was a problem, the whole screen would flicker.

Thanks, didn’t notice that but makes sense now! Very Zappa like thing to do!

 

[GilWave]

For its audio content, I find this a 10 but for the navigation aspects of the Blu-ray authoring and inadequacy of the navigation advice in the Producer's Note, I can't give it more than 8.

I assume you've never tried to navigate the DVD menu of Tool's Salival. Almost impenetrable.

 

[ergalthema]

I'm happy with it for the price, and I've only listened to the Blu-ray (with full Atmos array).

I don't like the menu system or constant flickering. The surround mix is fine, but I found it immediately fatiguing. There is so much going on most of the time. I've come to prefer when most of the focus is up front and the surrounds are used for inspired effects as opposed to having equal instruments all around all the time. I'm not a huge fan of the long jam solos either (but I love FZ's later 70's and 80's solos - all the guitar albums, etc.). That said, I'm glad this exists. Maybe the mix will grow on me with future listens.

 

[Quadlover]

I couldn't stand the flickering. It gives me a headache. I returned mine.

 

[stoopid]

The surround mix is fine, but I found it immediately fatiguing. There is so much going on most of the time. I've come to prefer when most of the focus is up front and the surrounds are used for inspired effects as opposed to having equal instruments all around all the time...

There's two ways to approach surround mixes, and which option is chosen is largely dictated by the number of instruments and composition. Orchestral, jazz, and this Zappa release share the "more than 4 instruments in a room" requirement that in order to hear anything you have to hear everything, if that makes sense. Having most of the instruments squished to 2 or 3 channels and only peppering the rears with occasional instrumentation or effects would be a waste of the extra soundscape space. Mind as well just have the stereo recording in these instances if all those instruments are going to be jammed into 2 or 3 channels anyway. Hope this clarification helps/makes sense. IMHO their approach was perfect for the material.

 

[stoopid]

I couldn't stand the flickering. It gives me a headache. I returned mine.

It's a music release, not a movie. You don't need to stare at the screen to listen to the music. Even a dog knows to get out of the rain.

 

[ergalthema]

There's two ways to approach surround mixes, and which option is chosen is largely dictated by the number of instruments and composition. Orchestral, jazz, and this Zappa release share the "more than 4 instruments in a room" requirement that in order to hear anything you have to hear everything, if that makes sense. Having most of the instruments squished to 2 or 3 channels and only peppering the rears with occasional instrumentation or effects would be a waste of the extra soundscape space. Mind as well just have the stereo recording in these instances if all those instruments are going to be jammed into 2 or 3 channels anyway. Hope this clarification helps/makes sense. IMHO their approach was perfect for the material.

I own dozens of surround mixes going back to the early 2000s when I first got a budget home theater. I got Sea Change and Yoshimi 5.1 when they were released and loved them. I used to want things panned everywhere all the time, but as time goes on I prefer more variety and subtlety in the mixes. Pink Floyd's Animals is very pleasing to me (I'm not a huge PF fan, but that might be my favorite surround mix).

I understand your point about all the instruments benefiting from being spread out - and I agree to some extent, but I just don't care for how it was done on many parts of this release. I've studied surround for a long time, and I've mixed some albums myself. It's a personal taste thing.

 

[SHB]

It finally arrived from the Zappa Store! Yay!

 

[himey]

I own dozens of surround mixes going back to the early 2000s when I first got a budget home theater. I got Sea Change and Yoshimi 5.1 when they were released and loved them. I used to want things panned everywhere all the time, but as time goes on I prefer more variety and subtlety in the mixes. Pink Floyd's Animals is very pleasing to me (I'm not a huge PF fan, but that might be my favorite surround mix).

I understand your point about all the instruments benefiting from being spread out - and I agree to some extent, but I just don't care for how it was done on many parts of this release. I've studied surround for a long time, and I've mixed some albums myself. It's a personal taste thing.

What do you think of the stereo mixes? Do you plan to just listen to those, or will you continue to suffer, listening to the multichannel mixes, wishing it was front heavy rather than balanced?

 

[ergalthema]

What do you think of the stereo mixes? Do you plan to just listen to those, or will you continue to suffer, listening to the multichannel mixes, wishing it was front heavy rather than balanced?

Ha! I wouldn't say I suffered. I really enjoyed some sections! There are very beautiful moments. The surround mix might grow on me - I'll continue to give it a chance.

I was a huge Zappa fan in my teens - had almost all the official CDs and wore them out. This era (early/mid 70s) is probably my least favorite (not that I don't appreciate it). Again, just personal taste. If I listen to Waka or Wazoo in stereo, I'd just listen to the original releases (for a variety of reasons). I'm still grateful for the release and hope that they keep cranking them out. My holy grail would be a Yellow Shark Atmos disc with instruments panned similar to when it was originally performed in surround.

 

[GOS]

As I understand it, our processors at home (AVR, Blu-Ray player, etc) automatically lower the gain based on the difference between -31 and whatever the assigned dialnorm value is. So if it's set to -31, the overall volume is reduced by 0 dB. But if it's set to -18, the gain will be reduced 13 dB.

I first discovered this when converting my own Atmos mixes from ADM to TrueHD with the Dolby Media Encoder and then playing back the resultant .MLP files with the Reference Player. Once the TrueHD file is created, it appears that the assigned dialnorm value is permanent.

I'm sure there is a single post that dumbs it down, but I cannot find it. I used initially MKV to rip the 5.1 and then converted to flac with foobar. The resulting 2 albums for sure sound different in terms of loudness. The Grand Wazoo is much quieter. What should I have done differently to get the volumes between the 2 albums closer to each other?

 

[paligap]

I'm sure there is a single post that dumbs it down, but I cannot find it. I used initially MKV to rip the 5.1 and then converted to flac with foobar. The resulting 2 albums for sure sound different in terms of loudness. The Grand Wazoo is much quieter. What should I have done differently to get the volumes between the 2 albums closer to each other?

I doubt you've missed a post about it. I haven't ripped the blu-ray yet, but the volume difference between the two albums was pretty extreme when I played it. I wonder if Garry's MMH might have some way to get the two closer in volume.