Frank Zappa Waka/Wazoo Deluxe 4CD + Blu-Ray 5.1 and Atmos!!!!

[stoopid]

I own dozens of surround mixes going back to the early 2000s when I first got a budget home theater. I got Sea Change and Yoshimi 5.1 when they were released and loved them. I used to want things panned everywhere all the time, but as time goes on I prefer more variety and subtlety in the mixes. Pink Floyd's Animals is very pleasing to me (I'm not a huge PF fan, but that might be my favorite surround mix).

I understand your point about all the instruments benefiting from being spread out - and I agree to some extent, but I just don't care for how it was done on many parts of this release. I've studied surround for a long time, and I've mixed some albums myself. It's a personal taste thing.

Like you, I've been around surround since the first dvd-a's in the early 2000s. Unlike you, I try not to form any preconceived notions about how the material should be handled, and don't really have a personal preference other than puking on those 'send a reverb to the rears' faux surround releases. Sea Change and Animals are both exceptional recordings and surround mixes, but neither have the number of instruments playing simultaneously that the Zappa or a full orchestra would have, hence the necessity to mix the music into surround so you can actually hear everything. So while I'm hopeful you'll approach the Zappa bluray with a more open mind next time, I'm less hopeful anything posted here is going to change your mind since you seemed to double down on your 'opinion' overriding the actual answer/explanation. If anything your takeaway is unfortunate for you, since the mix is what it is. I guess just listen to the stereo mix through NEO.

What I'm saying is -- your criticism comes across as more contrarian than connoisseur.

 

[GOS]

I'm sure there is a single post that dumbs it down, but I cannot find it. I used initially MKV to rip the 5.1 and then converted to flac with foobar. The resulting 2 albums for sure sound different in terms of loudness. The Grand Wazoo is much quieter. What should I have done differently to get the volumes between the 2 albums closer to each other?

Or, since I have the 2 albums in different folders...maybe I don't care? I have a lot of different albums in flac form that are very different in terms of loudness. I usually never choose random and play different songs from different albums in Foobar. Not my style. For now, I just won't worry about it until someone comes up with a fix that is easy to do.

 

[GOS]

LOL! OK, now I'm not totally certain there is a big volume jump. Good lord.....just listen to the music GOS.

 

[GOS]

Now that I ripped the True HD 5.1, I need to listen to the Atmos!!!

 

[jaypfunk]

I couldn't stand the flickering. It gives me a headache. I returned mine.

What? Returned it because of that? Uh, turn off the TV maybe? Jeezis!!

 

[ergalthema]

What I'm saying is -- your criticism comes across as more contrarian than connoisseur.

Hmm, that sounds more like projection considering you're the one trying to change my opinion for some reason. I'm glad if you like the mix.

I admit my post was a little too negative - I did enjoy a good chunk of the disc, and I should have mentioned that.

 

[stoopid]

Hmm, that sounds more like projection considering you're the one trying to change my opinion for some reason.

If I was projecting I would have told you how awesome you are.

As I said, you're the one missing out and it's time for both of us to move on. Hopefully you'll hear the mix for what it is next time instead of how you think it should be.

 

[SomethingAnything]

I've been checking out the Zappa music on this box set and it's all a bit of a revelation to to me. I love One Size Fits All with its inventive prog jazz leanings, but apart from that, I have been far more familiar with Zappa's song-based commercial stuff like Sheik Yer Bouti, which isn't bad but I can take or leave. But this is really impressive stuff isn't it? I'm hearing Coltrane and Mingus and more here! (In a rock context of course.) Unfortunately, the whole bad blu-ray authoring thing had me umming and ahhing, ... and then today I spotted all these 'out of stock' notices popping up around the world. Same with Tull's recent bookset reissue of TAAB.

So, I've shaken myself into ordering mode and now both sets are on their way to me, arriving at the start of 2023. Hooray! Hooray! Hooray! Thanks everyone for waking me into life with the positive comments ... plus like Baggins here, as well, who includes this and the TAAB releases in his round up.

And happy new year! (I'm in Oz, so we're amongst the first at the 2023 gateway.)

 

[PissedOffPeoN]

I couldn't stand the flickering. It gives me a headache. I returned mine.

oppo 203 has a audio mode to turn off the screen to make the audio better.. that would of helped .

 

[Nethersage]

It's a music release, not a movie. You don't need to stare at the screen to listen to the music. Even a dog knows to get out of the rain.

Indeed. I have taken to muting until I have selected the mix and then restartng the track I want to listen to and quickly unmuting. I then quickly switch to "pure audio" on my Oppo player and turn off the display on my television. Blu-ray has been around long enough now for aurhoring lessons to have been learned more scrupulously. I find the 'Musak' appraoch to FVZ's work during navigation distinctly annoying. Why can it not simply be deselected?

 

[Nethersage]

The flickering is supposed to mimic a faulty/dying fluorescent light or old movie film, to add some context to the image of the shitty room and old battlefield. I find the uniqueness in the Blurary authoring (menu/flickering) to be a perfect reflection of the FZ aesthetic and inventiveness. There would be complaints if it was ordinary too. Can't please everyone.

The volume differences between the albums on the disc, the menu layout, and the flickering menu are all being overblown. Truly first world surround release issues. The music is great, mixes are top notch, liner notes a well written and thorough, and there's bonus material to boot!

The truly annoying thing I find about the level differences between the 2022 and 2012 mixes is that at the end of each album one is autromatically switched back 'Zappa as Musak' in bog standard 2-channel stereo at around 10dB louder than the surround sound option. if that is what has just finished playing. I feel this Blu-ray ought really to be re-authored and replacements offered to those who have already purchased.

 

[Nethersage]

Atmos is never 96, always 48

Since the Nyquist frequency of 48kHz is 24kHz (way above the frequncy lmits of human hearing), higher sampling frequencies only really matter during the recording and mixing stages, surely?

 

[Intruder461]

Atmos is never 96, always 48

I've noticed that with Atmos but that to me is not the best mix although in the case of this release there is no real difference sonically between the Atmos and 5.1 mixes whereas with most releases I do find the 5.1 mixes the better. Gentle Giant's Free Hand is a prime example and that has a better mix than what this thing has. I don't have Atmos but I like how if you don't you get a 7.1 mix as well as a 5.1 mix though |I will stress that 99% of the time it is the 5.1 that will bring out the most detail.

 

[Intruder461]

Since the Nyquist frequency of 48kHz is 24kHz (way above the frequncy lmits of human hearing), higher sampling frequencies only really matter during the recording and mixing stages, surely?

I take your point there but in general, I do find those releases that have 96K to sound sonically better and have better levels, especially in relation to how the sound disperses if that makes any sense. This mix is well low for example and you really do have to pump up the volume to get the best out of it. That's not to say that all 48K releases are like that and I have found some to be equally as good.

 

[madscot]

I've noticed that with Atmos but that to me is not the best mix although in the case of this release there is no real difference sonically between the Atmos and 5.1 mixes whereas with most releases I do find the 5.1 mixes the better. Gentle Giant's Free Hand is a prime example and that has a better mix than what this thing has. I don't have Atmos but I like how if you don't you get a 7.1 mix as well as a 5.1 mix though |I will stress that 99% of the time it is the 5.1 that will bring out the most detail.

Now see what you’ve done, i’ve only ever listened to the atmos mix of “Free hand”, now I have to play the 5.1 for comparison

 

[jaypfunk]

The truly annoying thing I find about the level differences between the 2022 and 2012 mixes is that at the end of each album one is autromatically switched back 'Zappa as Musak' in bog standard 2-channel stereo at around 10dB louder than the surround sound option. if that is what has just finished playing. I feel this Blu-ray ought really to be re-authored and replacements offered to those who have already purchased.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Intruder461]

Now see what you’ve done, i’ve only ever listened to the atmos mix of “Free hand”, now I have to play the 5.1 for comparison

I always play all mixes including the hi-res stereo mix to see how good they are lol. That Gentle Giant release gives you a lot effectively its like having several ways you can listen to the album.

 

[sjcorne]

Now see what you’ve done, i’ve only ever listened to the atmos mix of “Free hand”, now I have to play the 5.1 for comparison

The 5.1 is definitely worth a play, it’s a completely unique experience and not just a fold-down of the Atmos. I think Steven Wilson and Bruce Soord are the only mixers delivering dedicated 5.1’s in addition to Atmos these days - the 5.1 option on most of the SDE Blu-Rays (xPropaganda, Gilbert O’Sullivan, etc) as well as this Zappa release sound like they were derived from the Atmos ‘ADM’ master.

 

[Quadlover]

What? Returned it because of that? Uh, turn off the TV maybe? Jeezis!!

Well, I have a copy and will re-buy if they release it without the flickering.

 

[Quadlover]

Zappa mixed many of his '70's albums in quadraphonic but wasn't happy with any of the formats then available. Apostrophe and Over-night sensation were released on CD-4 records. I have seen some bootlegs of other albums. The bonus stuff on Roxy, The Movie Blu-ray sounds like quadraphonic mixes to me.