Atmos will play from a standard Blue ray player. It needs to be decoded using an AVR or AVP
From Billboard: Studios Are Rushing to Record Music in Hi-Def Surround Sound
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I'd also add Apple Music, which comes pre-loaded onto every Apple device (iMac, MacBook, and Apple TV will output discrete surround over HDMI).
People like having a backup in case a download is lost when a server, or digital music storage system, crashes. Yes, those devices can be backed up, but who's going to back up the backup?
Companies take away choices and products all the time. That doesn't make me happy, but it doesn't make me submissive, either.
The argument you're making against those who "accept" streaming could just as well be made against those who "accept" expensive box releases: You're just submitting to the MAN, man!
We can't all be keyboard justice warriors like you. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, that doesn't make them "too stupid." That type of response is presumptuous and childish, in my opinion.
I'd only add the asterisk that (so far, with the most recent MacOS) I haven't been able to get my MacBook to output Atmos surround over HDMI--only the 5.1 core. Others (including you, @sjcorne?) have succeeded in getting Atmos output to their AVRs via other means. And of course Apple TV 4K outputs both Dolby Audio (4.0 & 5.1) and Dolby Atmos over HDMI.
And now back to this thread's original topic, which was . . .?
salsdali
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I meant "stupid" in the sense that history has seen this con before (buying something but not actually owning a copy of it) and that we should learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it, which we are doing right now with alarming regularity IMO with many thing currently going on in the world.
The problem is Apple/Tidal/Amazon/Spotify have essentially cornered the music market and are doing all sorts of cons on the market because they can.
The market needs to fight this, not embrace it, that just encourages those companies to continue doing their con.
Hi-Def? It’s streamed in lossy Dolby Digital Plus, AC-4 or RA360. It’s NOT hi def for the consumer only at the studio demo that artists get to hear. For consumers it’s Hi-Deaf.
Not gonna happen. The toothpaste is out of that tube. They're trying to kill the ownership model for music...not keep it alive as an alternative.
And it's not "recorded' in surround any more than most music in the last 50+ years was recorded in surround.
Doing off-site backups is certainly a good idea, but, alas, one that almost nobody actually does, including me. If my house burns down, my digital collection is toasted. But then, so is my physical collection.
If I’m home when the defecation hits the ventilation, I can grab my drobo 5N and run, but if not, I’ll have to see how good my insurance policy is.
I'm gonna use that someplace.
It is quite clever. lol!
Useful in polite company. Sorta.
MidiMagic
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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This is the con of copyright. You buy the disc, but you do not own the music on it.
They can kill the ownership model but they will never kill ownership. If someone wants to own a song whether in file and/or physical form they will find a way to do so with or without the powers that be permission. If history has taught us anything, music is very pirate-able. So the record companies can be compensated by selling it directly to people, or they will just take it. One way or the other, if there is a desire for ownership it cannot be stopped. I am sure they realize this but figure the number of people who are willing to jump through the hoops to do so are such a small minority that is negligible.
Napster shall rise again! (Or is it the south? I'm really not sure
).
True, but possession is nine-tenths of the law. Once it's in a users hands they really don't have much control over it anymore.
MidiMagic
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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What do you do when the service discontinues your favorite song.
MidiMagic
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
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The blu-ray is incompatible with my DVD player.
Also, the new AVR us incompatible with my existing AVR.
Yeah, upgrades are inevitable in this hobby.
I feel like the discourse in this thread is lacking a sense of perspective so I'll step in here.
I'm willing to bet that I'm one of the youngest people on this forum at 26 (27 in 3 weeks from today). My generation was raised on iPods and easy (and... free... if you knew where to look) online downloads of music.
I'm old enough to remember vividly collecting and listening to tape cassettes, CDs, and my dad installed his old turntable in my room, which lead to a lifetime love of vinyl.
As a result, I too liked to own my music. I like owning things. I still use my copy of Adobe Suite CS6 I bought in College over the modern "better" Creative Cloud versions (though my work pays for the latter, on work hardware) because I own that software to the extent one can own it.
When I switched over to Streaming, I initially bounced off it. I tried out Spotify when it was just starting out, and didn't like it. Not only did I not have control over my music, but I'd have to rebuild, track by track, album by album the catalogue I'd built up buying from iTunes/Bandcamp/Amazon Music MP3 downloads/questionable areas/etc.
Apple Music... made me reconsider. Because the thing that makes AM special is it doesn't stop you from owning your music. iTunes... is still right there. Love an album so much you want a copy of it? Go buy it from iTunes. Found something small and weird and special on bandcamp? Drop it into the Music.app on Mac or iTunes on windows and it's magically in the cloud everywhere. If it's an ALAC you uploaded it will be down converted to lossy for cloud streaming, but still lossless on the device your local files are on.
Not having to go out and acquire music has turned me on to some of my favorite bands and artists. I would have never given King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard a shot, or Phish, or Mary Lattimore, or The Future Sound of London if the ability to at any moment, on any device, cue up their songs wasn't possible.
As for physical releases:
How many of you would actually have sought out physical releases of the artists we've been sharing in the other threads? Would you drop $30-200+ on a box set with that new The Sheepdogs album? Any of you really wanna pay the outrageous prices for that KISS set with the Steve Wilson mix? Do you have the space to store these massive box sets? I sure don't! I moved into my first apartment and space is at a premium. I got boxes in my closet with all sorts of trinkets and doodads that mean something to me, but I haven't gotten around to unpacking them because I don't really know where I'd put it. For the convenience of cost, space, environmental (both packaging and shipping) etc... streaming music, especially surround makes sense to me. Yeah sure, the disc would have Atmos in True HD, but I've done ABX tests on high end gear for stereo... I personally, honestly can't tell the difference. Is it nice to have everything in lossless? Yeah! I have it turned on everywhere I can in Apple Music, but it's not worth going out of my way to seek out and pay extra.
As for headphones... I came to the surround scene from headphones. I've been fascinated with binaural technology since stumbling upon an app with nature sounds recorded in Binaural and have poked and prodded at every piece of hardware and software that does real time binaural mixdowns of surround. Even if 99.99999999999% of the target market of Apple/Tidal/Amazon listen to Atmos on headphones... who cares? The rising tide lifts all boats. If a niche app can draw one weird nerd in, what could the latest Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift, or Harry Styles, or whatever do for the mainstream listeners.
I know soundbars get a lot of shade here, and yes, I know that my LG SN7R isn't gonna sound nearly as good as your Oppo driven system you pieced together yourself, but the main selling point to get an Atmos enabled soundbar at all was largely driven by the music coming out on Apple Music. Later in life when I get a bigger place, or a house or something, priority numero uno will be to get a nice dedicated Atmos system. To me, its obvious.
In short: Streaming Atmos is a win/win/win in my book. It's a win for the labels and platform holders, as it's clearly doing bigger numbers for streaming than a stereo release would, and in the era where payouts for streaming are scrutinized and criticized, getting more streams is great for everyone involved. It's great for general public music listeners because now they have a choice as to Stereo/Lossless/Atmos, on Headphones (either static or head tracked) or on home theater systems, and it's great for the enthusiasts because Holy Cow! Look how much new music we're getting in Atmos. We're getting a bunch of releases every Friday, and seemingly at least one release every day that's not Friday! And that's been going for 13 months now with no signs of slowing down.
I'm willing to bet that I'm one of the youngest people on this forum at 26 (27 in 3 weeks from today). My generation was raised on iPods and easy (and... free... if you knew where to look) online downloads of music.
I'm old enough to remember vividly collecting and listening to tape cassettes, CDs, and my dad installed his old turntable in my room, which lead to a lifetime love of vinyl.
As a result, I too liked to own my music. I like owning things. I still use my copy of Adobe Suite CS6 I bought in College over the modern "better" Creative Cloud versions (though my work pays for the latter, on work hardware) because I own that software to the extent one can own it.
When I switched over to Streaming, I initially bounced off it. I tried out Spotify when it was just starting out, and didn't like it. Not only did I not have control over my music, but I'd have to rebuild, track by track, album by album the catalogue I'd built up buying from iTunes/Bandcamp/Amazon Music MP3 downloads/questionable areas/etc.
Apple Music... made me reconsider. Because the thing that makes AM special is it doesn't stop you from owning your music. iTunes... is still right there. Love an album so much you want a copy of it? Go buy it from iTunes. Found something small and weird and special on bandcamp? Drop it into the Music.app on Mac or iTunes on windows and it's magically in the cloud everywhere. If it's an ALAC you uploaded it will be down converted to lossy for cloud streaming, but still lossless on the device your local files are on.
Not having to go out and acquire music has turned me on to some of my favorite bands and artists. I would have never given King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard a shot, or Phish, or Mary Lattimore, or The Future Sound of London if the ability to at any moment, on any device, cue up their songs wasn't possible.
As for physical releases:
How many of you would actually have sought out physical releases of the artists we've been sharing in the other threads? Would you drop $30-200+ on a box set with that new The Sheepdogs album? Any of you really wanna pay the outrageous prices for that KISS set with the Steve Wilson mix? Do you have the space to store these massive box sets? I sure don't! I moved into my first apartment and space is at a premium. I got boxes in my closet with all sorts of trinkets and doodads that mean something to me, but I haven't gotten around to unpacking them because I don't really know where I'd put it. For the convenience of cost, space, environmental (both packaging and shipping) etc... streaming music, especially surround makes sense to me. Yeah sure, the disc would have Atmos in True HD, but I've done ABX tests on high end gear for stereo... I personally, honestly can't tell the difference. Is it nice to have everything in lossless? Yeah! I have it turned on everywhere I can in Apple Music, but it's not worth going out of my way to seek out and pay extra.
As for headphones... I came to the surround scene from headphones. I've been fascinated with binaural technology since stumbling upon an app with nature sounds recorded in Binaural and have poked and prodded at every piece of hardware and software that does real time binaural mixdowns of surround. Even if 99.99999999999% of the target market of Apple/Tidal/Amazon listen to Atmos on headphones... who cares? The rising tide lifts all boats. If a niche app can draw one weird nerd in, what could the latest Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift, or Harry Styles, or whatever do for the mainstream listeners.
I know soundbars get a lot of shade here, and yes, I know that my LG SN7R isn't gonna sound nearly as good as your Oppo driven system you pieced together yourself, but the main selling point to get an Atmos enabled soundbar at all was largely driven by the music coming out on Apple Music. Later in life when I get a bigger place, or a house or something, priority numero uno will be to get a nice dedicated Atmos system. To me, its obvious.
In short: Streaming Atmos is a win/win/win in my book. It's a win for the labels and platform holders, as it's clearly doing bigger numbers for streaming than a stereo release would, and in the era where payouts for streaming are scrutinized and criticized, getting more streams is great for everyone involved. It's great for general public music listeners because now they have a choice as to Stereo/Lossless/Atmos, on Headphones (either static or head tracked) or on home theater systems, and it's great for the enthusiasts because Holy Cow! Look how much new music we're getting in Atmos. We're getting a bunch of releases every Friday, and seemingly at least one release every day that's not Friday! And that's been going for 13 months now with no signs of slowing down.
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