From Billboard: Studios Are Rushing to Record Music in Hi-Def Surround Sound

[marcb]

I feel like the discourse in this thread is lacking a sense of perspective so I'll step in here.

I'm willing to bet that I'm one of the youngest people on this forum at 26 (27 in 3 weeks from today). My generation was raised on iPods and easy (and... free... if you knew where to look) online downloads of music.

I'm old enough to remember vividly collecting and listening to tape cassettes, CDs, and my dad installed his old turntable in my room, which lead to a lifetime love of vinyl.

As a result, I too liked to own my music. I like owning things. I still use my copy of Adobe Suite CS6 I bought in College over the modern "better" Creative Cloud versions (though my work pays for the latter, on work hardware) because I own that software to the extent one can own it.

When I switched over to Streaming, I initially bounced off it. I tried out Spotify when it was just starting out, and didn't like it. Not only did I not have control over my music, but I'd have to rebuild, track by track, album by album the catalogue I'd built up buying from iTunes/Bandcamp/Amazon Music MP3 downloads/questionable areas/etc.

Apple Music... made me reconsider. Because the thing that makes AM special is it doesn't stop you from owning your music. iTunes... is still right there. Love an album so much you want a copy of it? Go buy it from iTunes. Found something small and weird and special on bandcamp? Drop it into the Music.app on Mac or iTunes on windows and it's magically in the cloud everywhere. If it's an ALAC you uploaded it will be down converted to lossy for cloud streaming, but still lossless on the device your local files are on.

Not having to go out and acquire music has turned me on to some of my favorite bands and artists. I would have never given King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard a shot, or Phish, or Mary Lattimore, or The Future Sound of London if the ability to at any moment, on any device, cue up their songs wasn't possible.

As for physical releases:

How many of you would actually have sought out physical releases of the artists we've been sharing in the other threads? Would you drop $30-200+ on a box set with that new The Sheepdogs album? Any of you really wanna pay the outrageous prices for that KISS set with the Steve Wilson mix? Do you have the space to store these massive box sets? I sure don't! I moved into my first apartment and space is at a premium. I got boxes in my closet with all sorts of trinkets and doodads that mean something to me, but I haven't gotten around to unpacking them because I don't really know where I'd put it. For the convenience of cost, space, environmental (both packaging and shipping) etc... streaming music, especially surround makes sense to me. Yeah sure, the disc would have Atmos in True HD, but I've done ABX tests on high end gear for stereo... I personally, honestly can't tell the difference. Is it nice to have everything in lossless? Yeah! I have it turned on everywhere I can in Apple Music, but it's not worth going out of my way to seek out and pay extra.

As for headphones... I came to the surround scene from headphones. I've been fascinated with binaural technology since stumbling upon an app with nature sounds recorded in Binaural and have poked and prodded at every piece of hardware and software that does real time binaural mixdowns of surround. Even if 99.99999999999% of the target market of Apple/Tidal/Amazon listen to Atmos on headphones... who cares? The rising tide lifts all boats. If a niche app can draw one weird nerd in, what could the latest Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift, or Harry Styles, or whatever do for the mainstream listeners.

I know soundbars get a lot of shade here, and yes, I know that my LG SN7R isn't gonna sound nearly as good as your Oppo driven system you pieced together yourself, but the main selling point to get an Atmos enabled soundbar at all was largely driven by the music coming out on Apple Music. Later in life when I get a bigger place, or a house or something, priority numero uno will be to get a nice dedicated Atmos system. To me, its obvious.

In short: Streaming Atmos is a win/win/win in my book. It's a win for the labels and platform holders, as it's clearly doing bigger numbers for streaming than a stereo release would, and in the era where payouts for streaming are scrutinized and criticized, getting more streams is great for everyone involved. It's great for general public music listeners because now they have a choice as to Stereo/Lossless/Atmos, on Headphones (either static or head tracked) or on home theater systems, and it's great for the enthusiasts because Holy Cow! Look how much new music we're getting in Atmos. We're getting a bunch of releases every Friday, and seemingly at least one release every day that's not Friday! And that's been going for 13 months now with no signs of slowing down.

Am I missing something? Where you can you buy-to-own the atmos and/or surround mixes on Apple Music?

 

[Audiowannabee]

Its BOTH A BLESSING & A CURSE

I need to write a paragraph on some of my recent thoughts...but not atm

 

[PurpleMoustache]

Am I missing something? Where you can you buy-to-own the atmos and/or surround mixes on Apple Music?

You can’t… at the moment. Which is a shame, and something I’d like to see change. I was talking about owning music in general as opposed to streaming it purely in that sense.

 

[ssully]

of course it sounds terrible on headphones

 

[key_wiz]

I think we’ve all known for a long time that physical product was going to end eventually. I was hoping for downloads we could purchase but streaming has been inevitable for the last few years. Certainly we didn’t expect physical releases to last forever.

I’m amazed at the content we are getting. Is it perfect? Of course not. I’d love it to be mostly the classic music I love the most on physical discs in high rez and Steven Wilson mixes it all. But we can’t have it all. We have to learn to be (or not, your choice of course) able to live in the new universe.

Do I like all the music available? No. Are all the mixes good? No. But there is more surround music available now than ever. It’s a new golden age. And I’m listening to all sorts of new music I never would have otherwise and liking LOTS of it. I’m sure the artists and labels are thrilled by that. And so am I.

And that’s really the point of it all, isn’t it? To keep it all moving foward? To inspire new generations of artists and listeners? It cant all be just trying to cater to the small niche that wants an old Pink Floyd album with a new surround mix on SACD.

How long will it last? Will this be another 4-5 year thing like quad and the first round of surround? Maybe. But in the meantime they are releasing a ton of content.

Do we get to own it and keep it? Maybe not. But do we really need to? Or is more just that we want to?

Compatibility? Format wars? There seems to be much less of that this time around. And even if they stop making new MC mixes, is there any reason to think they’d stop streaming the old ones? Would it save them money to pull them down?

I remain very excited. I find the happiness where I can. and there’s so much more to choose from now than simply the handful of physical releases we were getting every year for the last several. There will always be things to complain about. But there’s a lot to be happy about.

/rant

 

[tonyE]

Doing off-site backups is certainly a good idea, but, alas, one that almost nobody actually does, including me. If my house burns down, my digital collection is toasted. But then, so is my physical collection.

If I’m home when the defecation hits the ventilation, I can grab my drobo 5N and run, but if not, I’ll have to see how good my insurance policy is.

I keep a couple of big HDDs in the bank's safe deposit box and another couple in a water/fire proof safe at home.

My data backup, though, is only as good as I manually make those copies. Hmm.... They do make fire and water proof (resistant) NASs though. I've been thinking of getting one of them to back up my WD PR4100s.

But the 4000 LPs... were, it was nice...

 

[tonyE]

I think we’ve all known for a long time that physical product was going to end eventually. I was hoping for downloads we could purchase but streaming has been inevitable for the last few years. Certainly we didn’t expect physical releases to last forever.

I’m amazed at the content we are getting. Is it perfect? Of course not. I’d love it to be mostly the classic music I love the most on physical discs in high rez and Steven Wilson mixes it all. But we can’t have it all. We have to learn to be (or not, your choice of course) able to live in the new universe.

Do I like all the music available? No. Are all the mixes good? No. But there is more surround music available now than ever. It’s a new golden age. And I’m listening to all sorts of new music I never would have otherwise and liking LOTS of it. I’m sure the artists and labels are thrilled by that. And so am I.

And that’s really the point of it all, isn’t it? To keep it all moving foward? To inspire new generations of artists and listeners? It cant all be just trying to cater to the small niche that wants an old Pink Floyd album with a new surround mix on SACD.

How long will it last? Will this be another 4-5 year thing like quad and the first round of surround? Maybe. But in the meantime they are releasing a ton of content.

Do we get to own it and keep it? Maybe not. But do we really need to? Or is more just that we want to?

Compatibility? Format wars? There seems to be much less of that this time around. And even if they stop making new MC mixes, is there any reason to think they’d stop streaming the old ones? Would it save them money to pull them down?

I remain very excited. I find the happiness where I can. and there’s so much more to choose from now than simply the handful of physical releases we were getting every year for the last several. There will always be things to complain about. But there’s a lot to be happy about.

/rant

Tidal "allows" you to do downloads, but the files are hashed and only good so long as you have the subscription up and running.

My plan has been to use my RME AD/DAC to record the music in the analog realm.. by using a Tablet/Nuforce HDP4 to decode, hooked up as AUX in my preamp, and then record it with a PC/RME unit (hooked up as a Tape) into 24/96 WAV files.

I got it all set up... one of these days I'll get around to it, I promise...

 

[MidiMagic]

Yeah, upgrades are inevitable in this hobby.

That is one of the two things I hate about both computing and sound technology. They refuse to leave things as they are. The other is copy protection.

My favorite medium is still the phonograph record. I have more in records than in any other format, The CD is second.

Anything that is not compatible with these is off the table as far as what I want is concerned.

Portability is important to me. I often need to take a recording with me for use where I am going. If they don't have a player, I can't use my recording.

I can reasonably expect them to have a CD player or a DVD player that can play CDs. I can not expect to find an SACD player, a blu-ray player (yet), or the correct app for a digital recording.

 

[marcb]

You can’t… at the moment. Which is a shame, and something I’d like to see change. I was talking about owning music in general as opposed to streaming it purely in that sense.

Not at the moment - and not ever.

Streaming only for surround music is just the tip of the spear for killing consumer ownership of music.

 

[PurpleMoustache]

Not at the moment - and not ever.

Streaming only for surround music is just the tip of the spear for killing consumer ownership of music.

I mean I really think that response is completely and totally overblown when Bandcamp still exists, record stores still exist, iTunes still exists, Amazon Music MP3 still exists, Beatport still exists, bleep still exists, HDTracks still exists. Vinyl is selling better than ever. Tapes are making a come back, CD is making a comeback.

Surround not getting physical releases != “music ownership is dying”. In fact I’d argue music ownership has never been stronger than it is right now.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

I mean I really think that response is completely and totally overblown when Bandcamp still exists, record stores still exist, iTunes still exists, Amazon Music MP3 still exists, Beatport still exists, bleep still exists, HDTracks still exists. Vinyl is selling better than ever. Tapes are making a come back, CD is making a comeback.

Surround not getting physical releases != “music ownership is dying”. In fact I’d argue music ownership has never been stronger than it is right now.

Music ownership is not really the strongest right now. It's the strongest it's been in the past 10 years, but not the STRONGEST. It is making a comeback though.
The issue with modern music ownership is that the justification for owning music is vastly different than what it should be. It's no longer a strive for quality or for the sake of owning but rather 'I want to support my favorite artist' or 'this stuff looks really cool!' I'd say vinyl and cassette are the biggest offenders, with people buying them because modern pressings give off a lower quality sound, not higher.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Not at the moment - and not ever.

Streaming only for surround music is just the tip of the spear for killing consumer ownership of music.

Dude, are you gonna spew this conspiracy theory manta in every thread you visit?

 

[marcb]

Dude, are you gonna spew this conspiracy theory manta in every thread you visit?

Dude, I'm going to continue these posts as long as the pollyanna posts keep occurring in every thread I visit.

 

[marcb]

I mean I really think that response is completely and totally overblown when Bandcamp still exists, record stores still exist, iTunes still exists, Amazon Music MP3 still exists, Beatport still exists, bleep still exists, HDTracks still exists. Vinyl is selling better than ever. Tapes are making a come back, CD is making a comeback.

Surround not getting physical releases != “music ownership is dying”. In fact I’d argue music ownership has never been stronger than it is right now.

Bandcamp, MP3, Beatport, Bleep, HDTracks...woo hoo! Tapes and CDs making a comeback? How much is all of this - maybe 10% of the market (except maybe Japan)?

It sounds more like you're supporting what I'm saying than refuting it...

 

[salsdali]

Dude, are you gonna spew this conspiracy theory manta in every thread you visit?

what's the conspiracy?? It's a fact you can't purchase and own any surround music on Apple music.

 

[marcb]

Music ownership is not really the strongest right now. It's the strongest it's been in the past 10 years, but not the STRONGEST. It is making a comeback though.
The issue with modern music ownership is that the justification for owning music is vastly different than what it should be. It's no longer a strive for quality or for the sake of owning but rather 'I want to support my favorite artist' or 'this stuff looks really cool!' I'd say vinyl and cassette are the biggest offenders, with people buying them because modern pressings give off a lower quality sound, not higher.

How is it the strongest it's been in the last 10 years? As near as I can tell, it's the weakest it's been since...Edison.

 

[Bill B]

Not at the moment - and not ever.

Streaming only for surround music is just the tip of the spear for killing consumer ownership of music.

Like I said above, the music industry may be done with the ownership model but if people want to own music they will find a way. For instance, there is software that will convert anything on YouTube into a file that the end user now controls. You can sell it to us and make a profit or we will find a way to take it for free. It has happened before and I can't believe you don't think it will happen again. Also, wouldn't it still be possible for individual artists to sell their own music directly to their fans?

If there is a demand for something it will be accommodated by someone, legally or illegally. So, if you are saying there will no long be a demand for music ownership then that would be another story but I don't think that is the case.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

what's the conspiracy?? It's a fact you can't purchase and own any surround music on Apple music.

Its the "tip of the spear" comment that enters conspiracy theory territory. It is directed at music ownership in general. Not just surround. I don't recall hearing about any artist/title that was an Apple exclusive and not available on CD or another distributed format.

Apple not choosing to sell downloads is their choice. But Apple is not the only source. Believe what you will. But if a market for ownership exists, someone will fill the need. And if the need isnt filled legally, it will be filled illegally. As sure as death and taxes.

For the record, I either already own or can buy nearly every Atmos album mix I would want on Apple music. The latest Elton John is the most notable exception I can think of. I stream to explore new stuff, but so much of it is total crap that I would never even consider buying, either because is sounds so crappy or the style just disagrees with me. It will surely never get played again. There is a total of 25 albums in my Apple library. About 1/2 of them are Stereo. With respect to standard surround, my physical collection is far larger and has better fidelity than what Apple can offer me in the context of the style of music I listen to.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Ahhhh... comic canine relief.