BluRay Music Video Poll Hackett, Steve - SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND & SPECTRAL MORNINGS: LIVE AT HAMMERSMITH [Blu-Ray]

[IanProudfoot]

Too early to give a score because I've not made it all of the way through yet. It's just not holding my attention. I've loved the previous Genesis revisited concerts, but this just seems to lack energy with the normally charismatic Nad Sylvan looking very bored during the instrumental parts. I will persevere though perhaps I was just in the wrong mood...

 

[IanProudfoot]

Heh. The keyboardist has a little message for you. You'll see.

I approve of the message on the keyboard!

 

[The56Kid]

I agree with the comments about there being too much low-end. It seems to come more from the kick drum than the bass guitar to my ears. This is mostly fixable with tone controls, but there aren’t many discs in my collection that require that kind of adjustment. My only other gripe is that Hackett’s electric guitar frequently seems a bit buried in the mix. It’s especially aggravating when the camera zooms in on him (such as when he plays the eerie sound effects at the beginning of “I Know What I Like”) and the guitar sounds like it’s in the background. Curiously enough, I don’t hear the aggressive bass and somewhat-veiled guitar in the stereo version.

This was my experience also. I really had to work to tame the bass response on my system because it was initially overwhelming. When i turned the volume up to my normal listening level, the bass was totally out-of-control and overrode basically everything else in the mix. When I turned the volume down to get the bass level manageable, I could barely hear Hackett's guitar.

I've never had to deal with that on a Steven Wilson mix. I had to make significant reductions in bass and increases in treble to my Yamaha's tone controls before achieving a good balance. Once I had it properly dialed in, I admit the overall performance sounded pretty damn good, but at least on my system, this is nowhere near Steven Wilson's best mix and because of that I can only give it an 8.

 

[ssully]

The extreme variety of replies here re: bass suggest a wide range of room acoustics, speakers configs, bass management, calibration effectiveness, etc among QQ setups....

One thing that would be interesting to check on a single system is the .1 bandwidth and output of DTS vs DD vs Bluray versions (assuming they exist). There is scope for true difference there.

 

[sjcorne]

One thing that would be interesting to check on a single system is the .1 bandwidth and output of DTS vs DD vs Bluray versions (assuming they exist). There is scope for true difference there.

I can't speak for the DVD version, but I ripped the DTS-HD stream from the Blu-Ray and the LFE channel is definitely full-range. I attached a 30-second sample of just that channel from "Firth Of Fifth" below.

 

[ssully]

This seems typical for lossless these days. Lossy (DD and DTS) on the other hand usually has band-limited LFE @ ~120Hz. Whether such difference is audible depends on the level of >120 Hz in the LFE, + what lowpass filters are in effect between AVR and subwoofer output (e.g, the 'LFE LPF' setting of the AVR and whatever LPF setting is active in the subwoofer itself).

 

[hobie1dog]

I love this concert

 

[twosheds]

9 from me
Whilst I love 70s Genesis I know absolutely nothing about Hacketts solo material beyond Voyage Of The Acolyte.

 

[JNL]

I had to respond again (I commented before explaining my 10 vote). The bass, on my system, sounds absolutely lovely. I wouldn't want it any softer or otherwise tamed. The entire mix is just heavenly, such great use of the surrounds (for flutes, backing vocals, and lots more). And of course, fantastic songs and performances too. Thanks again Steve and Steven

 

[jimfisheye]

I pulled this out again after a long break. I remember walking away from the thread last time wondering if I wasn't just some crude rock n' roller looking for lit up guitar and nothing else or something.

I'm standing with my first impression. Something went wrong here and the guitar is a little bit buried in the 5.1 mix. I listened to some of the stereo stream this time. The guitar is right there with the other instruments and even has just a little bit more weight - as you might expect a band leader and soloist's instrument to be mixed. The stereo mix has problems and seems stepped on in mastering in some ways too. Limited and boosted 6db or so. Almost the entire bass end of the mix is truncated. Might be a little high end boost in addition. But the guitar is right there in the mix. I don't know how this could have come about as a side effect of poor mastering technique either. In the 5.1 mix, Steve's guitar is the quietest instrument in the mix with the least weight. All the harmonized lead parts (with sax for example) have the other instrument dominating heavily. Some of the more subtle arrangement parts he plays are inaudible.

I don't have any theory for how the guitar could have been turned down like this from any mastering faux pas. Other than maybe the guitar was supposed to be duplicated to the C channel and that send got muted. A stretch and probably wrong.

The stereo and 5.1 are not in sync.
Putting the puzzle back together... I found they sync'd up sample accurate in 3 separate chunks.
I folded some of the stereo mix into the fronts. Raised the rears to compensate and preserve the weight of the rear channels. (Since some of that would be duplicated in the front along with the guitar help.) (From memory.) Stereo mix addition to fronts at -18db. Rears boosted 2db. Whole thing down -0.5db for headroom.

The concert was a constant distraction to listen to before with quieter guitar parts buried and solos made anemic. I may have butchered a little of the surround stage but it works at a high level for me now.

Obviously this mix was overall at a higher level than a lot of things we listen to to begin with! Having not only a lead instrument, but the band leader's instrument, and that instrument being a f'ing electric rock guitar! Having that buried really mocks all the attention to detail everywhere else. Why the hell is it productions like this that get released with these kind of glaring errors?! Man... Or how about that Alan Parson's Al Stewart mix that got run through a meat grinder in an epic mastering disaster by someone recently? Get handed mixes by the likes of Alan Parsons and Steve Wilson and there's no one competitent enough around to transport those files from point A to B without fucking the whole thing up?! And then no one even listens to it (apparently) to catch it last minute before release?!

 

[madship]

I'll admit, I am not much of a Genesis fan. I own exactly two of their albums, their eponymous final release, which I bought because I loved Home by the Sea snd Foxtrot. I've been a Gabriel fan since high school (80-84) and used to listen to side 3, I believe of Second Out in the library during free periods.

Having seen @edisonbaggins review of the blu-ray, I put it on my Amazon list. My son, 14, bless his heart bought, thought my wife, Selling England for me for Father's Day. I love my son, we went for a hike on Father's Day and he presented the set to me at the summit of our climb. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for this concert.

The sound is great and the mix for is definitely up to Steven Wilson's standard for a live surround album. The bummer part for me was the music. None of it spoke to me, especially Hacket's solo material. There were songs from Spectral mornings that sounded like Spinal Tap.

This for me is a 6.

 

[Belgiumliver]

I pulled this out again after a long break. I remember walking away from the thread last time wondering if I wasn't just some crude rock n' roller looking for lit up guitar and nothing else or something.

I'm standing with my first impression. Something went wrong here and the guitar is a little bit buried in the 5.1 mix. I listened to some of the stereo stream this time. The guitar is right there with the other instruments and even has just a little bit more weight - as you might expect a band leader and soloist's instrument to be mixed. The stereo mix has problems and seems stepped on in mastering in some ways too. Limited and boosted 6db or so. Almost the entire bass end of the mix is truncated. Might be a little high end boost in addition. But the guitar is right there in the mix. I don't know how this could have come about as a side effect of poor mastering technique either. In the 5.1 mix, Steve's guitar is the quietest instrument in the mix with the least weight. All the harmonized lead parts (with sax for example) have the other instrument dominating heavily. Some of the more subtle arrangement parts he plays are inaudible.

I don't have any theory for how the guitar could have been turned down like this from any mastering faux pas. Other than maybe the guitar was supposed to be duplicated to the C channel and that send got muted. A stretch and probably wrong.

The stereo and 5.1 are not in sync.
Putting the puzzle back together... I found they sync'd up sample accurate in 3 separate chunks.
I folded some of the stereo mix into the fronts. Raised the rears to compensate and preserve the weight of the rear channels. (Since some of that would be duplicated in the front along with the guitar help.) (From memory.) Stereo mix addition to fronts at -18db. Rears boosted 2db. Whole thing down -0.5db for headroom.

The concert was a constant distraction to listen to before with quieter guitar parts buried and solos made anemic. I may have butchered a little of the surround stage but it works at a high level for me now.

Obviously this mix was overall at a higher level than a lot of things we listen to to begin with! Having not only a lead instrument, but the band leader's instrument, and that instrument being a f'ing electric rock guitar! Having that buried really mocks all the attention to detail everywhere else. Why the hell is it productions like this that get released with these kind of glaring errors?! Man... Or how about that Alan Parson's Al Stewart mix that got run through a meat grinder in an epic mastering disaster by someone recently? Get handed mixes by the likes of Alan Parsons and Steve Wilson and there's no one competitent enough around to transport those files from point A to B without fucking the whole thing up?! And then no one even listens to it (apparently) to catch it last minute before release?!

Brilliant overview, I agree 100%. I am listening to this now.