Hey guys

[Hechtschnitzel]

Hey everyone, I’m relatively new to the audiophile world. I’ve been experimenting with 2 studio monitors and have a classic 5.1 setup in my living room. Recently, I realized that immersive music is exactly what I’ve been missing.

Now, I’m looking to upgrade my setup gradually—starting from 2 channels and expanding to 4, and beyond. I plan to do this with an external USB sound card and software like JRiver or CamilleDSP.

I’m hoping to get some advice and support here as I progress. Are there any good tutorials on how to set up a system like this? I’m pretty new to this topic, only familiar with some basics like REW and Equalizer APO, and I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed right now.

What do you think of setups like this?

 

[par4ken]

Hey everyone, I’m relatively new to the audiophile world. I’ve been experimenting with 2 studio monitors and have a classic 5.1 setup in my living room. Recently, I realized that immersive music is exactly what I’ve been missing.

Now, I’m looking to upgrade my setup gradually—starting from 2 channels and expanding to 4, and beyond. I plan to do this with an external USB sound card and software like JRiver or CamilleDSP.

I’m hoping to get some advice and support here as I progress. Are there any good tutorials on how to set up a system like this? I’m pretty new to this topic, only familiar with some basics like REW and Equalizer APO, and I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed right now.

What do you think of setups like this?

Welcome!

A lot of advice can be found here, just browse through the threads.

My advice is to try to find a second pair of speakers like your main pair. Others will disagree but I see no reason to add sub quality "surround speakers" to a good quality stereo base system. Maintain the same quality standard as far as possible and you can't go wrong!

 

[Hechtschnitzel]

Welcome!

A lot of advice can be found here, just browse through the threads.

My advice is to try to find a second pair of speakers like your main pair. Others will disagree but I see no reason to add sub quality "surround speakers" to a good quality stereo base system. Maintain the same quality standard as far as possible and you can't go wrong!

I already have a pair of Swissonic A305s and recently got my hands on a cheap pair of JBL 305P MK2s. They should be almost even. Can't go too crazy for now since I’m living with many neighbors—don’t want them fighting me! I’m just trying to set it all up and see where it goes.
I'm planning a big setup after I’ve learned everything and move houses in 1-2 years

 

[stoopid]

I already have a pair of Swissonic A305s and recently got my hands on a cheap pair of JBL 305P MK2s. They should be almost even. Can't go too crazy for now since I’m living with many neighbors—don’t want them fighting me! I’m just trying to set it all up and see where it goes.
I'm planning a big setup after I’ve learned everything and move houses in 1-2 years

Don't have any specific experience with the Swissonic or JBLs, I know the JBLs are well regarded as a budget home recording monitor (especially if paired with a similar grade studio sub like the Presonus Tremblor which is what I have). You're definitely going to be missing some lower frequencies in many music genres without a sub.

There's many ways to go about consuming surround mixes, despite professionally working in IT my preference is to still use discs and a more traditional home theater setup. Others stream online, some do digital files by usb or stream from a NAS. Some do all the above. Some are 4 channel/quad, some 5.1 like myself, some fully adopting atmos. You find whatever sweet spot in time, money, and immersion fits you.

I'd say getting a sub would be the next logical step, then ride that 4.1 setup until the new house (maybe picking up a center speaker if budget allows).

 

[barfle]

Not to open a can of worms here, but if it were me, I’d try to find a matching center speaker. The sub will do more to irritate neighbors if you’re in an apartment than it will add to your listening experience most of the time.

Once you get a room you can work with (nobody on the other side of the wall or floor), subs start to get useful, as do immersive speakers.

Your wallet and your heirs may never forgive you, though.

 

[stoopid]

Not to open a can of worms here...

Can of beans, then?

Those small monitors will not produce much lower end (below 100hz), so any kick drum, bass guitar, and lower synth notes (and for classical/symphony, much of the lower end of the string ensemble) will be absent. Sub with smaller speakers is mandatory if you actually want to hear everything.

Playing full range music will always risk neighbors hearing it. That's a tradeoff for apartment life (I speak from past experience as a surround enthusiast in an apartment). I picked the best time of the day/week, and did what I could to deaden some of the bleed. I wouldn't even bother moving an inch forward on a surround setup if I wasn't even capable of producing the full range of audio in stereo, which is already the case here without a sub and those specific speakers.

 

[jimfisheye]

My standard advice:
Matched speakers!

There is phantom imaging in surround just like in stereo. And obviously a lot more opportunity for that than stereo! Fidelity first, more channels second. If you mix and match some budget speakers into the array, you'll affect some mixes just like having two different speakers in a stereo pair.

And especially especially if you are going to try to listen to Atmos mixes on a smaller speaker array than the mix was created on. That will lead to more phantom imaging than ever and odd speaker mix and matching could absolutely change the mix.

 

[par4ken]

My standard advice:
Matched speakers!

There is phantom imaging in surround just like in stereo. And obviously a lot more opportunity for that than stereo! Fidelity first, more channels second. If you mix and match some budget speakers into the array, you'll affect some mixes just like having two different speakers in a stereo pair.

And especially especially if you are going to try to listen to Atmos mixes on a smaller speaker array than the mix was created on. That will lead to more phantom imaging than ever and odd speaker mix and matching could absolutely change the mix.

I agree. Today it would seem to me that people rely far too much on DSP/room correction. Attempting to correct for mis-matched and poor quality speakers via electronic means. IMHO a poor substitute for using quality matched speakers from the start!

Len Feldman in his book "Four Channel Sound" described quad as being the equivalent to running six stereo systems, when all the individual stereo pairs are considered. I would agree with that assessment. Applying that same logic to an Atmos setup how many potential stereo pairs and thus opportunities for creating phantom images do see, in theory at least?

 

[jimfisheye]

I love my digital tools and computers! I really do. I'll process something to death. Revive it. Process it again. Rinse and repeat.

Matching speakers. Placing them in a room. (Proximity to walls, corners, while keeping the array dimensions correct.) Modest room treatment so you aren't creating an echo chamber that overpowers the actual audio. This basic stuff is a frugal way to make the biggest impact. Things can go from zero to 100 pretty quickly otherwise...

You could turn a speaker to face away from you at a wall. You could eq boost the highs to hit a meter reading with DSP. Yes, you could even delay the other speaker (still facing you) and time align the audio! Now you know damn well that isn't going to reproduce the sound of that speaker facing you! A grossly exaggerated example there but hopefully you get the idea. Some simple passive strategies have a lot of bang for the buck. Don't move the mountain.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Len Feldman in his book "Four Channel Sound" described quad as being the equivalent to running six stereo systems, when all the individual stereo pairs are considered. I would agree with that assessment. Applying that same logic to an Atmos setup how many potential stereo pairs and thus opportunities for creating phantom images do see, in theory at least?

How did he come up with six stereo pairs? That would be 12 channels. I can see 8 with the 4 mains and 4 phantoms. He must be considering diagonal phantoms as well, but even then it only totals 10 channels. Any idea?

 

[par4ken]

How did he come up with six stereo pairs? That would be 12 channels. I can see 8 with the 4 mains and 4 phantoms. He must be considering diagonal phantoms as well, but even then it only totals 10 channels. Any idea?

Yes including diagonal phantoms! Lf to Rf, Lb to Rb, Lf to Lb, Rf to Rb, Lf to Rb and Rf to Lb.

I just pulled out the book and flipping through it I can't find the reference. It must have been in one of his many Quad related magazine articles instead. I remember seeing the very same thing on a record sleeve as well. If I come across it I'll post. You get the picture anyway.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Yes including diagonal phantoms! Lf to Rf, Lb to Rb, Lf to Lb, Rf to Rb, Lf to Rb and Rf to Lb.

Like i said, thats only 10 channels total.

 

[par4ken]

Like i said, thats only 10 channels total.

How so? There are only four channels. Those four channels act like six stereo pairs. I don't understand what you are considering to be a "channel" in order to get a number of ten or twelve.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

How so? There are only four channels. Those four channels act like six stereo pairs. I don't understand what you are considering to be a "channel" in order to get a number of ten or twelve.

Len Feldman in his book "Four Channel Sound" described quad as being the equivalent to running six stereo systems, when all the individual stereo pairs are considered.

maybe im missing something.

Six stereo pairs = 12 mono channels.

I count 4 direct channels (the quad mains) plus the 6 phantom channels (as youve outlined above). 4+6=10, not 12.

 

[par4ken]

maybe im missing something.

Six stereo pairs = 12 mono channels.

I count 4 direct channels (the quad mains) plus the 6 phantom channels (as youve outlined above). 4+6=10, not 12.

You are overthinking it. Taken individually there are six different stereo pairs. We are not talking about mono channels at all. Each stereo pair can create phantom images between them. I do not consider that to be extra "channels".

The point of this is just to illustrate that quad is much more than just stereo times two.

If you insist on referring to a centre panned image as another channel then I count nine not ten as the diagonals cross over. If you consider that panned images can move then the number of "channels" would be unlimited!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Dosent matter. I get the gist of it

 

[jaybird100]

My standard advice:
Matched speakers!

There is phantom imaging in surround just like in stereo. And obviously a lot more opportunity for that than stereo! Fidelity first, more channels second. If you mix and match some budget speakers into the array, you'll affect some mixes just like having two different speakers in a stereo pair.

And especially especially if you are going to try to listen to Atmos mixes on a smaller speaker array than the mix was created on. That will lead to more phantom imaging than ever and odd speaker mix and matching could absolutely change the mix.

I'm an advocate of timbre-matched speakers all around, and the easiest and best way to do that is to have the same brand, and the same series, all the way around. The sub can be different; it's only handling bass, so it doesn't matter as much. Since my priority is music, matching the speakers is that much more important.

 

[coolerking101]

I have ripped all my music and use J-River with a mini-PC I bought years ago to play it. I send the audio to my receiver via HDMI and have never had any issues. J-River is pretty straight forward and they have a decent forum if you have any issues. Also, plenty of people here will also be able to assist if you run into any problems. I should note, however, that the best streaming service for immersive audio (IMO) is Apple Music. An Apple Tv 4K will do a great job of streaming.

As for speakers, I don't think you can really get into immersive audio without a five speaker setup (I recognize this may be heresy to some as this is the QUADROPHONIC forum ). I strongly suggest you pick up a center channel. If you are on a budget, find a used center. HifiShark is a great tool for finding used audio equipment. I do suggest matching the center to your fronts. A sub is also going to be important, but as others note, nothing will annoy your neighbors faster than a sub...so you can certainly hold off on that.

Enjoy the journey!