Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

[ArmyOfQuad]

Ok, lesson 1, apply RIAA curve to the decoded difference signal. New sample, https://www.dropbox.com/s/izaxiqtr1eam97r/AWB pieces RIAA software decode sample.wav?dl=0

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi ArmyofQuad

I have listened to the 2 samples you recorded the one with the RIAA curve sounds slightly better so this might have some great potential if some one can put it together with software.

 

[BigAlt]

An in-between option is having a digital input in the Involve decoder that can take digital recordings, perhaps made at half-speed and pre-processed to some extent, and do the processing beyond one point, including ANRS. It remains to be seen if Involve can do ANRS in their signal processing.

As I commented in a reply to your earlier post regarding your desire for digital inputs on the proposed involve CD-4 decoder. Because CD-4 is almost exclusively a vinyl media and Chucky indicated that the only way that they could produce a CD-4 decoder at the $500 per unit cost that is the target is for a software only modification of the Surround Master, to design a new unit with new hardware would raise the cost far above that which the forum members have indicated they would be willing to pay. Therefore it seems a foregone conclusion that your wish for digital inputs is not going to be implemented. Since Chucky thanked me for that post and also liked it, it appears he agrees with my conclusion.

Al

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

This is my own opinion CD-4 was all ways more expensive than matrix systems in the hay day, so by restricting the cost to $500.00 is going to restric Chucky ability to come up with a solution. I am still willing to pay $500.00 to $800.00.
For a person how is not got a CD-4 system know it is going to be a lot more expensive to buy a collection of CD-4 LP`s & CD-4 compatible cartridge.
Bill....

 

[chucky3042]

Hi All

It really depends on you guys, as BigAlt says. We have just struggled to get up to the right amount of early adopters to justify the development costs at the $500 mark.

Over to you guys........

Regards

Chucky

Hi. All

This is my own opinion CD-4 was all ways more expensive than matrix systems in the hay day, so by restricting the cost to $500.00 is going to restric Chucky ability to come up with a solution. I am still willing to pay $500.00 to $800.00.
For a person how is not got a CD-4 system know it is going to be a lot more expensive to buy a collection of CD-4 LP`s & CD-4 compatible cartridge.
Bill....

 

[BigAlt]

My two cents is that Chucky says that there are enough early adopters so that they are aiming at a $500 cost for the CD-4 decoder. From my review of the responses to the idea of Involve/Chucky developing the decoder, most responses indicated a $500 price limit and Chucky did indicate that he believed Involve could develop and produce one at a that price if it was based on the Surround Master platform with just new software. Most of the early adopters already seem to be CD-4 collectors with quad systems and CD-4 Turntables who just want a modern decoder to listen to their CD-4 collections.
Since this appears to be the situation, adding additional features to the decoder such as a new metal case, having involve, SQ and CD-4 decoders in the same unit, having a built in phono preamp ( as all of the original CD-4 decoders had ) or having additional inputs other than the ones from your phono preamp outputs, such as digital, would require a complete redesign of both the hardware and software and increase the cost far above the $500 target price ( and I suspect far above the $800 Bigbiliquad is willing to pay ). I think it is unrealistic to expect that most CD-4 quad collectors would pay a premium price for these type of additional features which they would likely never use.
I already have a Technics SH-400, a Panasonic SE-405, a Pioneer QD-240, a Marantz CD-400 and a JVC-4DD5. I'm perfectly willing to pay the target cost of $500 for a modern CD-4 decoder based on the Surround Master platform but don't need any other features which which I wouldn't use and don't want to pay extra for.

Al

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. BigAlt

I hear where you are coming from and I most likely agree with you 95% but to fix the price at $500 is still a restriction if there is a bit of a lee way for Chucky say $500 to $650, this may help.
This if it is going to happen its a once only attempt to have a modern day peace of gear, because nobody else is going to do something like this period.
Bill..

My two cents is that Chucky says that there are enough early adopters so that they are aiming at a $500 cost for the CD-4 decoder. From my review of the responses to the idea of Involve/Chucky developing the decoder, most responses indicated a $500 price limit and Chucky did indicate that he believed Involve could develop and produce one at a that price if it was based on the Surround Master platform with just new software. Most of the early adopters already seem to be CD-4 collectors with quad systems and CD-4 Turntables who just want a modern decoder to listen to their CD-4 collections.
Since this appears to be the situation, adding additional features to the decoder such as a new metal case, having involve, SQ and CD-4 decoders in the same unit, having a built in phono preamp ( as all of the original CD-4 decoders had ) or having additional inputs other than the ones from your phono preamp outputs, such as digital, would require a complete redesign of both the hardware and software and increase the cost far above the $500 target price ( and I suspect far above the $800 Bigbiliquad is willing to pay ). I think it is unrealistic to expect that most CD-4 quad collectors would pay a premium price for these type of additional features which they would likely never use.
I already have a Technics SH-400, a Panasonic SE-405, a Pioneer QD-240, a Marantz CD-400 and a JVC-4DD5. I'm perfectly willing to pay the target cost of $500 for a modern CD-4 decoder based on the Surround Master platform but don't need any other features which which I wouldn't use and don't want to pay extra for.

Al

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi.Chucky

I think you have your work cutout, doing this and I hope you can pull a rabbit out of your hat at the end of the day..:teleport:....
thanks Bill..

Hi All

It really depends on you guys, as BigAlt says. We have just struggled to get up to the right amount of early adopters to justify the development costs at the $500 mark.

Over to you guys........

Regards

Chucky

 

[bangsezmax]

A modern CD-4 system that works well would be worth more than $500 to me . . .

 

[steelydave]

Personally, I would really love it if Involve would do a software version of a CD4 decoder, either as a VST plugin or a standalone piece of software for $50 or something. This would potentially put CD4 decoding in to the hands of thousands more people than a piece of hardware that costs 10x the price which is cost-prohibitive for me, and I would imagine all except the most dedicated.

 

[bigbillquad]

I agree.
I have been putting money to oneside since I agreed to buy one if it happens.
Then I`ll have the money on hand, and I hope others are doing the same.

A modern CD-4 system that works well would be worth more than $500 to me . . .

 

[jwb474]

A modern CD-4 system that works well would be worth more than $500 to me . . .

I agree too. Not too long ago I spent just north of $800.00 for a CD4-10. Also I have spend more than $500.00 to buy hardware that contain the CD4-392 IC.

 

[quattro64]

I would be interested in one as well. And does anyone know what Lou used to make the qsi record cleaner? He was going to supply us all with a bottle that were in line to purchase his demod.
I hope that its secret isn't gone as that stuff was key in cleaning old quad records.

 

[proufo]

Found this:

pyFmRadio - A Stereo FM Receiver For Your PC

The Python code is there. Maybe someone could nicely try to invite Dave Swiston into this project, or adapt himself his code to CD-4.

 

[fredblue]

Has there been any progress on an Involve CD-4 demodulator?

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Fred

Not yet we are still working on both the headphone surround and the pre amp.....and the 2 speaker surround Y2. Next will be the CD4. It will happen, its just hard to give a date at the moment.

Regards

Chucky

 

[fredblue]

Hi Fred

Not yet we are still working on both the headphone surround and the pre amp.....and the 2 speaker surround Y2. Next will be the CD4. It will happen, its just hard to give a date at the moment.

Regards

Chucky

Thanks Chucky.. best of British luck with your headphone surround, preamp and Y2 projects..
and thanks so much for the Surround Master which continues to be one of the most impressive bits of surround kit I have ever used.

I long for a similar unit to the Surround Master from Involve to work its magic on CD-4..!

Meantime, it is now with a sense of near dread that I will have to embark upon finding a still-functioning 5-decades-old CD-4 demodulator for the stacks of old CD-4 records that are piling up chez moi.. wish me luck, Chucky, its gonna get messy!

 

[Tubelicious]

Hi guys I'm super late to this thread, but I've already decided the involve SQ is how I want to go (for SQ anyway)

I'm in the early early infancy of getting a quad system going but SQ is covered. CD4? I have no clue ;(

I've read is that EVERY manufacturer of cd-4 decoding has some issue, and an involve option would be prefect to me.

That being said, I'm stunned the involve is "only" $500 , so I don't even see how they would attempt to bring cd-4 online at the same price point.

I must say I may be a weird bird here, as I'm trying to have the best of both worlds (vintage Marantz 4140, involve SQ, and modern bluray to play 5.1 / 7.1 on the vintage Marantz.

The 4140'does QS / matrix ok natively, but most of my LP's are CD4 and SQ.

So I'm definitely in at the $500 and would go as high as twice that if the functionality / robustness was there.

Thanks!

 

[Tubelicious]

Thanks Chucky.. best of British luck with your headphone surround, preamp and Y2 projects..
and thanks so much for the Surround Master which continues to be one of the most impressive bits of surround kit I have ever used.

I long for a similar unit to the Surround Master from Involve to work its magic on CD-4..!

Meantime, it is now with a sense of near dread that I will have to embark upon finding a still-functioning 5-decades-old CD-4 demodulator for the stacks of old CD-4 records that are piling up chez moi.. wish me luck, Chucky, its gonna get messy!

I'm in the same boat... What CD4 decoder have you settled on? I'm leaning towards the Marantz cd400 (more so to match my amp than performance...). Is there a consensus for the best one out there? Or is it all variable?

Quad newbie, trying his best to measure 3 times and cut once, thanks!

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. Tubelicious

I think overall the best demodulator to go for if you want to get something now would be a JVC 4DD-5 unit in good working condition a CD-4 test disc & a cartridge. Some people try and do the set up by ear by having a known good CD-4 LP that has a good separation in the 4 corners plus another person with you to twiddle the nobs why`ill you listen in the sweet spot.
Bill...

I'm in the same boat... What CD4 decoder have you settled on? I'm leaning towards the Marantz cd400 (more so to match my amp than performance...). Is there a consensus for the best one out there? Or is it all variable?

Quad newbie, trying his best to measure 3 times and cut once, thanks!