Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

[Quadro-Action]

Hello Bill,
till today there are no answers from the japanese area. It seems some difficul tto ge ta contact to the japanese HiFi or Surround scene. An asking to the leaders of the janapese community in Hamburg (Germany) has also no results. But I know a US fan, who has contact to people in Japan. I have now asked him, if he could make such an attempt to find japanese Q-fans or they could write a message about the new CD-4 Demodulator in the fourums in Japan. We will see, ifthere is an success. But also other menv+bers in this QQ forum, who have contact to japanese fans, may do also an attempt.

Dietrich

 

[Quadro-Action]

Hello Chucky,

again to the 12 dB separation in front and back. I absolute may believe, that you audience would listen differences between a 12 dB source and those of CD-4 30 dB and the 55 dB of Q4 tape and the 80 or more dB by DVD-Audio or SA-CD. Haas may work for special circumstances and few sectors in the frequency range. Look to the UD4 of Denon. The frequences above 4.ooo Hz have had only a little channel separation. But in the middle frequencies a big separationwas important for this Q-system.. So I think, a new CD-4 Demodulator must have at least a separation as our older Demodulators or better. My restored JVC 1000 has such a stable surround sound by (aoruns) 30 dB. One can listen the stability by discrete sources. So we are also happy to produce our new quadraphonic software with the DVD-Audio. But a new Demodulator would have the advantage, that new components or circuits are built in and may (hopefully) work many years without problems. But I can not understand ,that modern technic can not have the same or better results as the older.
If you would stay sometimes in Germany, you may have a visite to me and we can test all sorts of Q software. As one of the earliest Q-fans I am further on looking forward, what is cooking in your quadraphonic "witches" kitchen and how the soup will taste us.

Dietrich

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Dietrich

Fear not we will get full separation of say 35 dB out of it. My discussion re the 12 db is an academic point if the listener is positioned equidistant to the speakers, off center you can pick the leakage. I will be traveling soon but I do not think Germany this year but almost definitely next year and it would be great to visit you.

Regards

Chucky

 

[Quadro-Action]

Hi Chucky, if you would then stay here (with the new CD-4 Demodulator in your luggage?) we will have a lot of listening fun and interesting discussions. And if you want, we could have some more Q-fans by the party.

regards

Dietrich

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All
I thought this might be off interest a lab test on CD-4 Cartridges.
Bill...

 

[chucky3042]

Hi

Great post!

I wonder how my ADC ZLM would go?

Regards

Chucky

 

[quadsearcher]

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php has specs, but like the AT 440MLa, I suppose some exceed their specs.

 

[quadsearcher]

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php has specs, but like the AT 440MLa, I suppose some exceed their specs.

 

[chucky3042]

Damn

Did not list my cartridge!

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php has specs, but like the AT 440MLa, I suppose some exceed their specs.

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. Chucky
This is a ADC ZLM - Could be yours View attachment ve_adc_zlm_test_reports.pdf

 

[chucky3042]

Many thanks Bigbillquad

Great cartridge but top end no good for CD4...Double damn!!!!!

Chucky

Hi. Chucky
This is a ADC ZLM - Could be yours View attachment 21540

 

[LizardKing]

Chucky a couple of questions:

I assume you'd take a standard Surround Master and have one of the options as CD-4 and the other as Involve mode/QS?

If you make a CD-4 decoder would the input be a line-in level, or would you have a phono stage built into the box?

 

[medkill]

Hi All,
After over a year hiatus, I'm back here in QQ land. I'm getting in on this thread a bit behind the power curve.
Sad to find out that Lou has went on.
I'm doing my part to add to the rabbit count. Count me in. If all goes as is right now (no unforeseen downturns in life) I can tolerate a price range of $500 to $800.
At this time, I can't think of any words of wisdom for Chucky. As for encouragement, Keep On Keepin' On! We all sure listen forward (look forward just doesn't sound right here) to what develops. I still play with the Surround Master SQ that I bought a couple of years ago. I hear nothing but top-notch results with my SQ albums, and it does great with stereo albums as well.
Thanks again to Chucky for his willingness to do this, and to the other quadramaniacs who are willing to commit to getting one of these devices.

 

[Circular Vibes]

Many thanks Bigbillquad

Great cartridge but top end no good for CD4...Double damn!!!!!

Chucky

Chucky, don't give up on your cartridge without trying it. You may be surprised about the difference between specs and real world listening. BTW, the address in Montreal(Outremont) on the brochure ins now a condo, so I don't suggest sending in the warranty card now, hehe.

 

[fredblue]

Chucky, don't give up on your cartridge without trying it. You may be surprised about the difference between specs and real world listening. BTW, the address in Montreal(Outremont) on the brochure ins now a condo, so I don't suggest sending in the warranty card now, hehe.

You're so right! How many published specs are worth the paper they're written on..! :yikes
Case in point.. my v.basic Ortofon cart and Pro-Ject preamp are specced to resolve 20Hz-25kHz and 20Hz-20kHz respectively.. but looking at the lovely waveforms I've noticed things showing up on certain SQ transfers at around 30kHz through it all when I record in @96/24, so who knows what that's all about.. its probably recording the air conditioning or picking up the neighbour's wireless doorbell..

 

[chucky3042]

Actually that's what I think....suck it and see. When I look at the 1 KHz square wave response it looks really fast and looking at the response I suspect they ended the test at 25 KHz.

Regards

Chucky

You're so right! How many published specs are worth the paper they're written on..! :yikes
Case in point.. my v.basic Ortofon cart and Pro-Ject preamp are specced to resolve 20Hz-25kHz and 20Hz-20kHz respectively.. but looking at the lovely waveforms I've noticed things showing up on certain SQ transfers at around 30kHz through it all when I record in @96/24, so who knows what that's all about.. its probably recording the air conditioning or picking up the neighbour's wireless doorbell..

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All
I have the Audio-Technica ATN15 and it sound sweet to me..
Bill...

 

[Quadro-Action]

I work further on with the Elac MC-Systems EMC-1. The frequency range goes up to 60 kHz without any layering. At 20 kHz the separation between left-right is nearly 30 dB. So it will have above 30 kHz more then the needed 12 dB for a well working Demodulator. The tip is one of the van den Hul with exactly an symetrical shaping (5x75 µ). Of course is needed a pre phono amplifier. But not the actual, which have an output with AUX level. Ideal is one till the 80's, which have an output by working with an MC-System like a MM-System. That is the input level for an CD-4 Demodulator. The separation one can name as superb with absolute clearness. Unfortunately this systems was not built since End of he 80's. But those who have an interess, they may be available by Ebay - especially by .de So I may geht instead 12 db Channel sparation front rear at least 13 (but have hope for some more).

Dietrich

 

[chucky3042]

Dear All

I have decided that we have just about enough starters and probably it will fill in later. I will schedule this in as a job for probably next year. We have just finished the design of the Y4 system and it is about to go into production. The final Y2 is next followed by the surround preamp and a stripped down home studio version of the Involve encoder. In the middle of it all I have just started a solar power company (based on a new patent that gets 40% cost reduction on off grid systems!).

So all being well and Overture and I don't get run over by a bus I assure you CD4 types we will commit (we really should be committed) to this lunacy say mid next year, sorry about the delay but we only have a design team of 4, two electronic engineers (I am one of them), product design engineer and a physicist/mechanical engineer.

Happy days are here again!!!

Chucky

 

[kfbkfb]

The product information about the Technics SA-7300X receiver (1975)
states that "Separation and carrier levels are automatically adjusted
to each cartridge characteristics, ensuring a very carefree operation."

(the SA-7300X used the QSI5022)

Any possibility of obtaining the circuit diagram of the SA-7300X
automatic separation system and using a (probably digital)
implementation in order to eliminate all user adjustments on the
"Involve CD-4 demodulator"?

Kirk Bayne