Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

[Quadro-Action]

I have done now a test with a function by CD-4 as never bevor: To play a CD-4 record with the SM in the QS mode. Another fan hase lend me his record "CD-4 Experience". Together with my own (the 4 mouthes on the cover) I could play both records simultaneous with 2 of my players and could listen the difference between CD-4 about the Demodulator JVC 1000 and the SM in QS position and switching with my commutator. Astonishingly one could listen by QS also a clear separation in front-back. But only by music. In the chapter 7 on side 1 are speacking 4 people in 4 languages - each in one channel. The channel separation of front left and back left was in this example zero. Each voice was listen in front and back simulatenous. Playing the record abot the CD-4 demodulator the sound was more clear and has particurlary more dynamic by music and the voices are listen clear in the corredct position. So I would prefere a new Demodulator with separation by the 30 kHz carrier and the sort out of the channels with the special CD-4 A/B matrix.

Dietrich
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[FM_Quad]

I just ran across this today, referenced from the original thread about Lou's demodulator. As one person already noted, the biggest impediment to finishing Lou's project is lack of part numbers for the IC's. The most glaring one being the filters. Also, as noted, the filters are programmable, and I don't believe anyone has the parameters he used. I am a designer and considered the possibility of taking on the project.

Another part of Lou's plan was to include a cartridge, which could be a big deal. Personally, I'm a fan of the EPC 45x/46x series, but don't have one and they have been outrageously priced on E-Bay in recent years. I do have an AT-14SA, which isn't bad. Unfortunately quality replacement stylii for either can be hard to come by.

I also considered (even before Lou's death) a digital implementation. My primary objective is to digitize all my vinyl, as vinyl wears out and digital files don't get noisy over time. I don't want to resurrect the Analog vs. Digital wars here, but will say that if done right digital can be completely transparent. What does done right mean? 24 bits resolution in the ADC, DAC and DSP for starters. For CD-4, it also means initial sampling at 192 KHz in my opinion. All of which is quite realistic with current technology. I got some test devices to experiment with and made a few crude samples. My biggest concern was the ANRS. Contrary to some opinions expressed here, it is NOT the same as the cassette version. The technique is the same, but the parameters are quite different. I have a number of documents about it, and believe it can readily be done digitally, but it would take me considerable analysis and testing to make sure I got it right. (Even phase behavior is important.) It is something I still may pursue, and even make available. But there is this thing about earning a living that keeps getting in my way.

I don't have very many CD-4 discs, more just stereo vinyl that I'd like to preserve. What I'm using right now doesn't sound very good in CD-4 and I haven't figured out if it is because I have an inferior needle on my AT-14, a defective demodulator (I have two) or just vinyl that is beyond usable. I have tried Lou's cleaner with little difference. I'm a little reluctant to do much more development until I can Play a CD-4 through an demodulator without excessive distortion, particularly on loud passages.

 

[proufo]

I also considered (even before Lou's death) a digital implementation. My primary objective is to digitize all my vinyl, as vinyl wears out and digital files don't get noisy over time. I don't want to resurrect the Analog vs. Digital wars here, but will say that if done right digital can be completely transparent. What does done right mean? 24 bits resolution in the ADC, DAC and DSP for starters. For CD-4, it also means initial sampling at 192 KHz in my opinion. All of which is quite realistic with current technology. I got some test devices to experiment with and made a few crude samples. My biggest concern was the ANRS. Contrary to some opinions expressed here, it is NOT the same as the cassette version. The technique is the same, but the parameters are quite different. I have a number of documents about it, and believe it can readily be done digitally, but it would take me considerable analysis and testing to make sure I got it right. (Even phase behavior is important.) It is something I still may pursue, and even make available. But there is this thing about earning a living that keeps getting in my way.

I hope you achieve this!

I'd guess that implementing in DSP the ANRS circuits in Dorren's schematics should not be impossible.

Also, once we get into digitizing the Lps, half-speed playback is a clear opportunity. No more hassles with special, tricky unavailable cartridges and styli. Huge files and long processing, though.

Question: do you believe a Dolby unit (tweaked perhaps) could do a reasonable decoding of ANRS-encoded recordings?

 

[workmeistr]

I'm in at $4-500. The SQ Surround Master had the added value of the QS/Involve setting, making for enhanced stereo and mono record listening in 4.0. Can the demodulator have an additional chip with one of the forgotten spatial enhancement or sonic hologram trickeries? This will make the box more appealing to those that have fewer CD-4 records and those phase-shift enhancement scripts are probably easy to come by, but I'm just talking out of my 4th point of contact, here.

 

[Four Rules]

Thanks for being so brave, taking a risk. But, as they say: NO RISK, NO FUN!!!!

 

[Q-Eight]

I would certainly entertain the idea of an all-in-one Wonder that included the Involve QS, SQ and a CD-4 demodulator. It would save me from buying two boxes.

 

[reh001]

I'm in for 1.

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. Chucky
I now I`m jumping the gun here, I am wondering if you have come up with a plan of attack with the new CD-4 decoder, have you formulated any idea of this system yet you are planning,..:xp: or is it too soon yet to divulge the secret snak oil.
Bill.

Dear All

I have decided that we have just about enough starters and probably it will fill in later. I will schedule this in as a job for probably next year. We have just finished the design of the Y4 system and it is about to go into production. The final Y2 is next followed by the surround preamp and a stripped down home studio version of the Involve encoder. In the middle of it all I have just started a solar power company (based on a new patent that gets 40% cost reduction on off grid systems!).

So all being well and Overture and I don't get run over by a bus I assure you CD4 types we will commit (we really should be committed) to this lunacy say mid next year, sorry about the delay but we only have a design team of 4, two electronic engineers (I am one of them), product design engineer and a physicist/mechanical engineer.

Happy days are here again!!!

Chucky

 

[chucky3042]

Hi BigBillquad

Actually we are all just getting in the mood and have started to casually circle the problem. One of the first things we will do is read all the contributions on this subject by QQ members, then it becomes an issue of slotting the job in around moments when we need some light entertainment.

Regards

Chucky

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi Chucky
I`v been thinking about the CD-4 decoder what ( LizardKing - Workmeitr - Q-Eight ) have said to have a all-in-one Wonder that included the new Involve SQ-QS and a CD-4 demodulator, is a no-brainer you would have all the systems in one box and I think it would attract more people maybe...???
Bill...

Hi BigBillquad

Actually we are all just getting in the mood and have started to casually circle the problem. One of the first things we will do is read all the contributions on this subject by QQ members, then it becomes an issue of slotting the job in around moments when we need some light entertainment.

Regards

Chucky

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Bigbillquad

I too like the idea of an all in one but we all need to decide which way to go. Many QQ members already have a Surround Master with Involve QS/ SQ decode modes, if we add an extra CD4 mode it implies an new box (would be metal!). I suspect QQ forum members may not want to do that as that would make their existing unit redundant - unless we do it as an upgrade thing where we take the old plastic one back and return it with a metal all mode unit.

Hope I am being clear.....confuses me.

I would love to think such an all in one unit would set the consumer market on fire but frankly the consumer market gets confused by anything that does not have the Dolby name on it. They have no idea of surround history.

Still I would like to hear everyone's view on this, we are looking at starting the project in the new year. First we will need to define the price and how members will order something that we have not completed .......maybe a deposit???

Regards

Chucky

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Bigbillquad

I too like the idea of an all in one but we all need to decide which way to go. Many QQ members already have a Surround Master with Involve QS/ SQ decode modes, if we add an extra CD4 mode it implies an new box (would be metal!). I suspect QQ forum members may not want to do that as that would make their existing unit redundant - unless we do it as an upgrade thing where we take the old plastic one back and return it with a metal all mode unit.

Hope I am being clear.....confuses me.

I would love to think such an all in one unit would set the consumer market on fire but frankly the consumer market gets confused by anything that does not have the Dolby name on it. They have no idea of surround history.

Still I would like to hear everyone's view on this, we are looking at starting the project in the new year. First we will need to define the price and how members will order something that we have not completed .......maybe a deposit???

Regards

Chucky

 

[edisonbaggins]

By "all in one" is it meant that the TT goes to the "all in one," which goes goes to a modern receiver (my Pioneer Elite 7.1, for instance) and you're done or is more equipment required?

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Edisonbaggins

Our "all in "one unit" is our Y4 product (Akoustos- sound like a big hairy Greek wrestler) see: http://involveaudio.com/akoustos-pro-surround-sound-system/

It does not have SQ or CD4.....but it does have involve, QS, RM etc.

regards

Charlie

By "all in one" is it meant that the TT goes to the "all in one," which goes goes to a modern receiver (my Pioneer Elite 7.1, for instance) and you're done or is more equipment required?

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. edisonbaggins
If you connect any outside Surround unit to your ( Pioneer Elite 7.1,) or any other Surround receiver it must have ether 5.1 or 7.1 Auxiliary inputs at the back of the reciever to felicitate the output of the unit like the Surround Master, and sadly the auxiliary inputs are getting very scarce on the New Surround reciever of today.

By "all in one" is it meant that the TT goes to the "all in one," which goes goes to a modern receiver (my Pioneer Elite 7.1, for instance) and you're done or is more equipment required?

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. Chucky

I like your idea of ( we do it as an upgrade thing where we take the old plastic one back and return it with a metal all mode unit. )

I think I might have said it before, that you should put a link here on QQ to your web site for a registry of the people how are willing to put there name and contact information for you to have a accurate number count of how is going to buy, if that is allright with the QQ management.
Bill.

 

[chucky3042]

Great Idea Big Bill!

Hi. Chucky

I like your idea of ( we do it as an upgrade thing where we take the old plastic one back and return it with a metal all mode unit. )

I think I might have said it before, that you should put a link here on QQ to your web site for a registry of the people how are willing to put there name and contact information for you to have a accurate number count of how is going to buy, if that is allright with the QQ management.
Bill.

 

[surroundophile]

I do NOT like the idea of return for upgrade! It cost me over $200 for shipping and insurance to send to Austrailia for the phono update!

Hi. Chucky

I like your idea of ( we do it as an upgrade thing where we take the old plastic one back and return it with a metal all mode unit. )

I think I might have said it before, that you should put a link here on QQ to your web site for a registry of the people how are willing to put there name and contact information for you to have a accurate number count of how is going to buy, if that is allright with the QQ management.
Bill.

 

[RenoKen]

I would certainly pay around $500 for a new state-of-art CD-4 demodulator. Count me in the drive to 200!

Ken

 

[bigbillquad]

Hi. surroundophile
Chucky has said it is a, open book and wants feed back from us to comeup with something which the majority of us will agree upon. postage is allways going to be exspensive. I buy Quad LP from ebay for say $15.00 postage to New Zealand cost anything from $ 18.00 to $25.00.. with out tracking.
Bill...

I do NOT like the idea of return for upgrade! It cost me over $200 for shipping and insurance to send to Austrailia for the phono update!